Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: Pitspitr on August 02, 2011, 06:35:45 PM
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I will be hosting the 2012 Department of Missouri Muster July 13, 14th & 15th, in my pasture. This will be open to anyone in the GAF. If not currently a member I can help you register. (Membership in the GAF is free and easy) You need not be headquartered in the Department of the Missouri. By using Google Earth and going to 41°40'16.24"N Latitude and 99°19'42.54"W Longitude you can see the Dept. Muster site. Registration forms are available on the dispatches page of the Grand Army's Web site. Particpation will be limited to 35 shooters. Everybody wishing to take part in a door prize drawing should bring something for the pot and we will run the door prize drawing sort of like an old fashioned blanket shoot. Those wishing to attend but not compete may do so without registration fee, but be sure to pay the meal fee.
This muster will be a primative camping event. The planned activities include: a 3 stage GAF steel target main match, a 300 yd paper target long range match and a GAF Expansion Era Match. While 3 stages for the main match doesn't sound like much these two stages will be of the skirmish format and will feature about 30 knock down targets per stage. Round counts will be dependent on the number of times the shooter needs to shoot at each target to get it to fall. 90 to 100 rounds at least would be a good plan.
I will have a tent city and have tentage for about 20 individuals if you don't have your own. We should be easily able to get photos without anything modern in them. We should have plenty of time to sit around the campfire and visit.
The muster itself will be low budget. The meals will be cooked by Delmonico and participants will pay him not me. I don't intend to issue medals to the winners, but entry fees will only be around $40.
Unless something falls through between now and then, there will be artillery there. I have a guy lined up to come who has a parrott, a howitzer and several mortars. By the time of the muster there should be running water on site with an actual shower being a real possibility.
The format for the long range match will be a little different that the way it was held the last couple of years. Shooters will be able to sight in their rifles on Friday evening using the bench in Fort Scotsman. When the actual long range match is held on Saturday it will be shot from the shooters choice of positions from the ground. The idea behind this is that it will be more of a real world type of match.
Another change for 2012 is that the long Range match will be included in the competition for the Department Champion. I've wanted to include a third criterion for the Department Champion for some time. I had considered including the camp award but felt that this would place participants who had to travel at too big a disadvantage. The Long Range Match has been quite popular at the last two Department Musters. With the change in format I felt that it really made sense to include it with the main match and the Uniform competitions for the Department Champion. This should make the competition a little more well rounded.
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I forgot to mention that the long range match at the 2012 DoM HQ Muster will be shot using full size humanoid silhouettes that each shooter will be able to keep as a reminder of how they shot. Had we done this this year I'd have burned it :-[ and that is the participants option ::)
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I forgot to mention that the long range match at the 2012 DoM HQ Muster will be shot using full size humanoid silhouettes that each shooter will be able to keep as a reminder of how they shot. Had we done this this year I'd have burned it :-[ and that is the participants option ::)
Will they have scoring rings, or simple hit or miss?
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Will they have scoring rings, or simple hit or miss?
I haven't seen them, Ned Neidrlander will have to answer that for certain, but I think they do.
Yeah there will be a water line. Not sure what the pressure will be like but I'm sure it will be enough to cool us off ;D
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They do indeed have scoring rings. They are the old standard police B-27 target, and are full size silhouettes. They should be a lot of fun!
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I am going to start a separate thread concerning food before the muster, but I thought of this tonight and would like to mention it, I don't know if I ever have or not. But if you've went out and killed some sort of critter and your SO refuses to cook it or even let it in the kitchen, let me know and I'd be glad to add it to the menu. Just let me know what species it is, common name should be enough although taxonomic names are always great. ;) It makes us look educated.
Just let me know what you are bringing and if you have something you want made out of it, that also.
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I am planning on attending. I see long range and short range targets. Should I plan on bringing a rifle and a carbine or are they in use in the same stage?
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All rifle targets are meant to be engaged with whatever long gun you're using. The rifle targets are usually anywhere from about thirty to one hundred twenty yards away. They're all half scale, with the standing targets being thirty-four inches tall, if that helps. I've got pictures of them with my Krag for scale on the Department of the Missouri Facebook page.
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125 yards is fine with anything I own.
I thought I had heard something about 400 yards. At that range I need my 50/70 Trapdoor but at 125 yards my 45/70 carbine will be just fine.
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There is seperate long range at 400 yards, but there full power mil-spec can be used because the targets are paper.
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So should I be using powered-down loads for the rest of the match? I'm shooting a 405 grain RNHB bullet over 53 grains of black in my carbine and it likes the load. Does that sound like it is too stout for this match?
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Do you have any idea of what the velocity is? My guess is somewhere around 1200fps. I believe maximum we allow is supposed to be 1400 or 1500fps. I guarantee that load will not hurt our targets at the ranges we shoot at.
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Skirmish match steel target Max load for rifles under .50 caliber is 405 grains lead at 1400 FPS. Greater than 50 caliber is allowed a 480 grain bullet at the same velocity.
Your load is within spec, and can be used for both the Skirmish steel match, and the long range match should you so wish. Recoil recovery is not an issue with a GAF match.
Long range match ammunition is limited only by range considerations. Loads must be either Black Powder or smokeless, no duplex loads allowed. Best loads are those that shoot to the indicated ranges of your milspec sights.
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Congratulations to River City John for being the first one in with his registration.
Numbers haven't been a problem in the past but judging from the comments here in the Barracks you might want to follow John's lead and get your registration in early as I wouldn't bee surprised to see us fill up. I'll be getting the registration forms to Col. Bull Schmidt in the next few days to post on the GAF web site.
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Congratulations to River City John for being the first one in with his registration.
Numbers haven't been a problem in the past but judging from the comments here in the Barracks you might want to follow John's lead and get your registration in early as I wouldn't bee surprised to see us fill up. I'll be getting the registration forms to Col. Bull Schmidt in the next few days to post on the GAF web site.
I am coming. How do I register? I assume I will need to wait for the forms.
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From the "Anyone intersted in a M1868 .50-70 Springfield" thread:
I really don't need an extra. So feeling out who might want one. Very good shooter. Would like the $800ppd to you that I basically have in it. If any GAF member is interested, let me know and I will try and take some pictures if the weather will ever allow it.
Chris Fischer
F-Troop
If you still have it in July bring it with you to the DoM Muster and we'll try to find a home for it then. As a matter of fact I'd suggest that anyone having anything to sell or trade bring it with you to the muster and put out a trade blanket.
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I've pruned this thread down to the most pertanent information.
Until last year we had never done door prizes at the Dept. Muster. River City John gratiously donated a reproduction ammunition crate. Last fall's Grand Muster got me thinking: What if everybody wishing to take part in a door prize drawing brought something for the pot and we ran the door prize drawing sort of like an old fashioned blanket shoot?
Waddy'all think?
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Has the weekend for the MDM been set at July 20-22? Want to mark it off on my calendar .....
NO, It's the 13-15th
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See the GAF web site http://www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org/ (http://www.grandarmyofthefrontier.org/) Dispatches page for the Registration form and a suggested equipment checklist.
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I had someone ask what the schedule looked like for the muster this summer.
What I expect this year is to start shooting about 8:00 each morning. We'll Start with the Expansion Era Match on Friday morning. Friday afternoon and evening everyone will have the chance to sight in at 300 Yds. With the number of people who have expressed interest in coming this year I expect to have 2 or 3 squads. We'll probably treat the long Range match as one of the stages. In other words one squad will shoot the long range while the other squad is shooting one of the main stages. If everything goes as smoothly as in the past 2 years we should be done or nearly done by Saturday evening. I expect to be done with everything by noon Sunday, giving folks who have to travel some distance, some travel time so that if you really have to, you could probably be home in time to go to work on Monday morning.
I'm planning a couple of new additions this year. 1st is that Friday or Saturday evening while we're sitting around visiting I'm planning a short history session. Second, in the past I've never had door prizes, but his year I'm asking that anyone wishing to be included in the door prize drawing bring a prize for the pot and we'll run the door prize drawing sort of like an old fashioned blanket shoot.
I try to keep this match pretty flexible as far as the schedule is concerned so that no one has to feel rushed and so that we have plenty of time for visiting. I think this is pretty important because if it turns out that it's one of those unbearably hot days we can postpone some of the shooting until after it cools off a little. At some point we may have enough people registered that the schedule will need to be more rigid, but I don't believe we're there yet.
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Congratulations to Cowtown Scout, the second officially registered participant!
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Congratulations to Col. Larry Little. Official registant number 3.
The current list includes:
Col. Pitspitr
Lt. Col. Ned Neiderlander
Captain River City John
Cowtown Scout
Lt. Col. Montgomery Little (Gripmaker)
Hopalong Strong
Col. Rattlesnake Jack Robson
Stu Kettle
Bowview Haymaker
Scruffy Skippy
Lt. Col. Kit Peak Kid
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OK I am stumped. I have had the registration form on my desk for over a week. What do the classes at the bottom mean? They do not seem to line up wiht the classes listed on the battle rifle standard page on the GAF website.
I would be shooting a Springfield trapdoor with black powder and an 1873 SAA revolver with black powder. What class am I?
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Not sure but I think,:
marksman is mil-spec repeater and rifleman is mil-spec single shot. the others oare pretty much the same.
So with a trapdoor and black powder youd be in black powder rifleman.
Drydock and pitspitr can giveyou the official answer.
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Yeah, we changed the name of the classes, but not the classes themselves. Milspec Repeater has become Marksman (Smokeless and BP) and Milspec Single shot has become RIfleman (Smokeless and BP)
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Based on that I am a Black Powder Rifleman.
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Pitspitr,
Whats the tent situation? Gonna get your Tipi set up? Sounds like a pretty good sized tent city this year.
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Gonna get your Tipi set up?
Planning on it.
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Congratulations to Hopalong Strong. Official registant number 4.
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Congratulations to Col. Rattlesnake Jack Robson. Official registant number 5.
Looks like it's going to be an international compitition :)
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Looks like I'll be travelling to the DOM Muster with my usual 'batman', Roger ....
Colonel Pitspitr - I am even thinking of trying to convince him to try shooting, this time. If I manage to do that, would there be any difficulty on a relatively late registration as a Muster participant?
By the way for those who don't want to camp .... but would also prefer not to be staying 20 or 30 miles away ..... I have reserved a room at the Comstock Premier Lodge, which appears to be only two miles or so (as the crow flies) from the Muster site! (Mind you, I gather it may be five or six miles by road ....)
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/DOM%20Muster%202012/GoogleSatelliteview_DOMMuster.jpg)
Jerry admits that he forgets to mention this place because it was actually started as a private hunting lodge with very expensive membership. However, it is now operated as a Bed & Breakfast, and looks pretty upscale!
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/DOM%20Muster%202012/ComstockLodge.jpg)
Mind you, at $110/night it isn't cheap..... but if you have to pay at least $70 or $80 for a decent motel room anyway plus spend time and money driving 50 miles or so each day, I think it is worth it.
I understand it is a "per room" rate - i.e. same price regardless of how many people are sleeping in the room (.... within reason, of course, and it only includes breakfast for two people, but additional breakfasts are $5.00 each.) They even have a "Bunk Room" which has four single beds in it - also $110/night. If four guys were willing to share that one (.... rather reminiscent of the barracks at previous National Musters?.....) the cost per night, with two additional breakfasts, would work out to only $30 per person .....
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/DOM%20Muster%202012/bunk-room-1JPG1024x0.jpg)
Their website: http://www.comstocklodge.com/ (http://www.comstocklodge.com/)
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Thank you Grant for pointing this out.
This is a very nice place and as Grant pointed out it started life as an expensive private hunting club. (about $130,000 to $150,000/year membership) The last I knew they still have elk and buffalo hunts available, but aren't as expensive now. In it's former life it hosted some rather big name celebrities such as the band Sawyer Brown.
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Scout Class participants be wared. Stu Kettle is official registrant number 6
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I'm sure most of you have seen the "Quote of the day" thread in which I discuss attending my son's NG graduation in SC. Because of this trip, I'm going to have to cancel the informal Zoot Shooting match. Now to make certain I'm clear on this, I am NOT canceling the main match, I'm just canceling the ZOOT match on Sunday afternoon.
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I know there are several of you that are planning on attending who haven't sent in registrations yet. Even if you have to wait to send the official registration (waiting on a paycheck or whatever) Please let me know that you are indeed coming and what class you are planning on shooting. That way I can get the score cards and certificates printed. Thanks
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Update:
Trenching for the waterline started yesterday, so while the shower may not be completely finished, we'll at minimum have a tank to cool off in and have running water at the camp sight.
I made the arraingements to purchase the lodge poles for my teepee. I'll have to smooth them up a little but shouldn't have any problem finishing that project before the muster.
For those of you who have attended the past 2 DoM Musters, you will be happy to know that I made access into another canyon so we'll have a new stage area. This one is a lot closer to the camp site than the canyon we've used the last 2 years. My plans are to eventually put some permanent props in this canyon, but they probably won't happen before next year.
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;D
;D Gun shoot thingy cocktail ;D
I will bring the Gatorade.
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Well...I'd rather a seperate check went to Glen, but I can get the money to him if it's sent to me.
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I've been needing to post this, we'll go $8 a meal and my address is now:
Glen Carman
731 Garfield St
Lincoln NE 68502
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Have we seen an exact round count yet if shooting a mil. spec rifle and revolver?
How about just the mil. spec rifle?
About how many for the Long Range side match?
RCJ
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John et. al.
I've asked Ned Niederlander to address this question, but I'm assuming the same as last year's for the main match and as you know it's a must hit match so the number of rounds is dependent on your skill, but we're suggesting you bring around 100 rounds rifle. I'm guessing about 10 for the long range. I haven't seen the targets or their scoring rings, but most targets the high scoring ring is 10 so 10X10 would be a 100 possible.
Dale will correct me if I'm incorrect.
Oh, and more is always better. ;D We can always find ways for you to burn powder if you don't want to bring leftovers home. ::)
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Gentlemen,
As Pitsptr indicated, the targets are all must-hit, so it's impossible to give an exact round count. I believe we shoot three stages in the main match, and there should be between twenty and thirty rifle targets per stage, plus six to ten pistol targets. The Expansion Era stage should be about the same, so you can plan accordingly. I always like to have at least fifty percent more rounds than targets, but I'm an ammunition hog. As far as the long range matches (Main and Expansion Era), both will be ten shots for record with five sighting rounds allowed. I believe Pitsptr is going to allow sighting in the night before as well.
As an aside, the exact number of targets per stage will depend some on the weather. If it's 105 degrees, we'll use a few less targets as no air moves in the canyons. (Ask Drydock!) If it's cooler, stages will be a little longer to get more shooting in.
Hope that helps!
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Jacketed bullets are fine for the long range portion of the match. (In fact, I would recommend them for the smaller calibers.) Also, the long range match has been changed to 300 yards, if I'm not mistaken.
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Having gotten another shooting event out of the way this past weekend, I now must turn my attention to preparations for this Muster.
Am I correct in my understanding that there will be no difference in the number of rounds to be fired in the main match stages by Riflemen with single shots as opposed to Marksmen with repeaters?
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You are correct, sir. The single shots just go a little slower, though not that much slower!
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Congratulations to Scruffy Skippy. Official registant number 7.
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Am I correct in my understanding that there will be no difference in the number of rounds to be fired in the main match stages by Riflemen with single shots as opposed to Marksmen with repeaters?
RJ in our expirience Riflemen are somewhat slower, though not significantly slower. Most don't wish to shoot less anyway.
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Congratulations to Bowview Haymaker. Official registant number 9.
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Wow, it just occured to me that we have a pretty diverse geographic area represented by our registered attendees. Alberta Canada to Texas and Illinois to Arizona.
I heard from the General the other day and if he can finally shake the chronic bronchitis he's been fighting, he may attend as well.....Now if we could just get someone here from the west coast ::)
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We built eight more kneeling targets today, with more on the way. Should be a target-rich environment!
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I may be a litlle dense but what do I need to bring for the expansion era match? I figured I would need a SAA and a trapdoor for the main match.
I have loads of different rifles to choose from but not a lot of different uniforms. Can someone give me the gist of the expansion era match?
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This might give you some ideas:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,33853.0.html
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The EEM is the GAF's version of the wild bunch match. Think GAF In the Wild Bunch, 1900-1916. 1903's 1911's
And remember, it's a side match. You don't have to do it if you choose not to.
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For any 03 to be used it must have barrel mounted sights. The WW2 reciever sights place it out of period. The 1917 is considered an adaptation of the British P14 of 1914, and is thus allowed. The 1917 is considered an acceptable subsititution for the EEM sidematch.
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What kind of pressure will you have at the top? I would think it would take quite a pump to lift much water to the top of that hill. Maybe just use an irrigation pump. ::)
The water line is complete and pressure has been measured at over 20 pounds. Hopefully the shower will be complete by the end of the week.
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Pruned this thread back a bit to make it easier to find the important information.
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I'm trying to figure out my travel plans right now. it is about 12 hours of driving. I figured I would drive most of the 12 in a single day and then find a hotel to sleep. What time do things get started? Should I plan on arriving Thursday to help with setup or Friday for the actual muster?
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In addition to my previous question about when I should arrive I need to add an additional question. I have a very flexible shedule. As long as the whole trip does not take more than a week I can do some sightseeing. Is there anything I should not miss in the region? Is Fork Kearney work seeing?
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Should I plan on arriving Thursday to help with setup or Friday for the actual muster?
I sure hope to have everything setup by Wednesday evening, but Im sure that folks (Myself included) might appreciat an extra hand putting up tents and Rain Flys on Thursday. That probably won't be an all day job though. Delmonico usually cooks an evening meal on Thursday evening, but that's up to him.
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so if I arrive on Thursday evening can I set up my tent and sleep there?
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I'm planning on being there Wendsday sometime in the afternoon. I'm planning on a supper for Thrusday night. So far I have money for meals from Skip and Paul. If you can send it to me and let me know what meals you are going to be there for it will help with the getting groceries before I leave. Thanks.
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so if I arrive on Thursday evening can I set up my tent and sleep there?
I'm not Jerry but the answer is yes, we'll have a supper about dark.
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If I leave Chicago by 7am I should be there by dark.
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I'm planning on being there Wendsday sometime in the afternoon. I'm planning on a supper for Thrusday night. So far I have money for meals from Skip and Paul. If you can send it to me and let me know what meals you are going to be there for it will help with the getting groceries before I leave. Thanks.
Glen
I'll get you the money for mine and the moneys I have received with registrations toward the end of the week.
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Glen
I'll get you the money for mine and the moneys I have received with registrations toward the end of the week.
That's fine, I'll grocery shop about Monday. BTW I better not say it to loud but I'm liking the price of gas about now.
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If it's open, do not miss Ft. Hartsuff. We held the Grand Muster there 2008 and 2009. We stayed in the barracks, but the shooting was offsite.
RCJ
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I'll second John's recommendation ......
Here are a few shots from those Musters:
A view across the parade square at Fort Hartsuff, the barracks mentioned by John on the right (mess hall projecting from its rear) and an officers' quarters on the far side -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/FortHartsuffBarracks_exterior.jpg)
Interior of the barracks -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/FortHartsuffBarracks_interior.jpg)
Interior of the barracks mess, during the banquet -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/Roger19.jpg)
The incomparable River City John, himself, washing up his mess implements following aforesaid banquet -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/Roger23.jpg)
And last but certainly not least, the same Naval Gentleman striking a swashbuckling "Captain Morgan" pose during the shooting in 2008 -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/GAF/2008%20Muster/Roger13.jpg)
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I have an interesting picture of River City John from last year, I need to get it printed up for him. It wouldn't be a proper muster with out getting a picture of someone that they regret. ;)
Here are a couple at Ft. Hartsuff in 2008 he can be proud of:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Ft%20Hartsuff%202008/D3.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Ft%20Hartsuff%202008/D1.jpg)
The 2009 one was one those attending will never forget:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Ft%20Hartsuff%202009/PICT9387.jpg)
John snuck in again.
But we were warm and cozy in the barracks with the wood stoves a going:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Ft%20Hartsuff%202009/PICT9360.jpg)
(Everytime I post this picture I get another year of KP.)
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That isn't a cell phone! The Colonel is just listening to the relaxing "ocean roar" of a black seashell ..... ;D
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That isn't a cell phone! The Colonel is just listening to the relaxing "ocean roar" of a black seashell ..... ;D
I thought he'd joined the Signal Corp. ;)
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(Everytime I post this picture I get another year of KP.)
::) As near as I can figure you now have KP until about 10 years after you're dead!
Guys forgive me if I don't post much in the next week. I'll be checking in from time to time but if there isn't an important question, I probably won't post much more until after the muster.
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Gentlemen,
A friend and I just modified all the prone targets to have a steel plate base, so we shouldn't have any malfunctions with them like we did last year. Things are coming together!
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Yeah, well we'll see after Jack gets done shootin' . . . :o
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I don't remember any malfunctions last year - seems they all fell down when shot.
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Yeah, well we'll see after Jack gets done shootin' . . . :o
If Command wishes to 'test' these targets, I could (.... purely as a 'public service', of course ....) load some .577/.450 Martin-Henry cartridges to the full War Department specifications set out in the List of Changes in War Materiel and of Patterns of Military Stores, as opposed to the relatively wimpy 'GAF-spec' cartridges I normally shoot:
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/List%20of%20Changes/loc4756_ctg_mh_drawn2.gif)
;D
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Works for me, Jack! I shoot at them fairly regularly with various .50-70's and so far they've held up well. They do bend after a while, though!
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That load should only be a little faster than a 45-70-500 rifle load. Bullets were cast pretty hard for them too, 12 to 1!!!
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If Command wishes to 'test' these targets, I could (.... purely as a 'public service', of course ....) load some .577/.450 Martin-Henry cartridges to the full War Department specifications set out in the List of Changes in War Materiel and of Patterns of Military Stores, as opposed to the relatively wimpy 'GAF-spec' cartridges I normally shoot:
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/List%20of%20Changes/loc4756_ctg_mh_drawn2.gif)
;D
That pic was extremely helpful. Look at the size of that lube wad! No wonder my Martini's foul so badly I can't get more than a few shots in a group. My first 3 are often touching at 100 yards but after that the barrel is fouled I sometimes have trouble hitting the backstop!
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That pic was extremely helpful. Look at the size of that lube wad! No wonder my Martini's foul so badly I can't get more than a few shots in a group. My first 3 are often touching at 100 yards but after that the barrel is fouled I sometimes have trouble hitting the backstop!
Yes, plentiful BP-compatable lube is very important with the Martini-Henry ..... especially with these original loads, which had unlubricated paper-patched bullets.
Note the configuration of the lube wad, as well - deep cavity in front and sandwiched between card wads - to pretty much ensure that it would flare out and be deposited along the bore .... Of course, that particular cartridge was adopted specifically for service in the very arid climate of Egypt.
The lube wad wasn't quite so big in the earlier Marks of Martini-Henry cartridges (with their distinctive coiled sheet brass composite cases) but still quite substantial -
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/GrantRCanada/List%20of%20Changes/Loc2661_MHctg_I_II_III_01.gif)
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Even that lighter lube wad would be much more tham my bullet carries.
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In addition to whatever lube the grease grooves of the bullet carry, I (like many other shooters of the Martini) use "grease cookies" in my loads for enhanced lubrication .....
Melt a shallow layer (e.g. 1/8" or 3/16") of suitable lube in a flat, shallow pan, let it set and then cut out discs of the lube with an appropriate sized punch - an old cartridge case with the base cut off works well for this. Load with a close-fitting card wad over the powder, followed by the lube wad, then another card wad. Milk carton material works nicely for the card wads, as it is impermeable to the grease and keeps it from contaminating the powder or sticking to the base of the bullet .....
For the past several years I have been making my own black powder lube - which looks and performs very much like SPG - by melting together roughly equal parts of beeswax and olive oil, mixing well and then letting it set up. The proportions of the two ingredients can be varied to make the finished product harder or softer, as desired.
If you are a Martini-Henry shooter - or have an interest in any of the other historic British firearms, for that matter - you should check into British Militaria Forums, where I am a moderator. The name is rather deceiving: these forums are almost exclusively dedicated to collecting and shooting Victorian-era (and earlier) British firearms .....
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/ (http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/)
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Congratulations to Lt. Col. Kit Peak Kid. Official registant number 10.
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Well unless it hails bad before the muster it looks like we will have plenty of fresh green beans at one of the meals. ;D
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AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, now that I have calmed down a bit. It is with deep regret and frustration that I must withdraw from this year's Dept. of the Missouri Muster. This is due to physical and financial reasons (doctor's deep concern about another case of heat exhaustion...first one care of Uncle Sugar while in his emply when I was younger...and my wife's refusal to pay resultant medical charges should this happen again). She also made such comments as: stupid, bone-headed, a typical Little and "What am I supposed to do with all these guns if something happens?" I assure you all that these are pointless concerns but I have chosen to acquiesce for this one time. All this after spending valuable time with Bro. Bob sighting in my 66 YallerBoy at NRA center in NM last month.
As your Chaplain, I shall be praying for your safety and that you all have a wonderful time next week-end. God Bless and shoot safe.
LTC Montgomery Little, Senior Chaplain, GAF
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My friend, to be truthful that has me concerned a bit also, I will also be traveling with out my Corpsman because he's having to much trouble with the heat to be able to ride everyone elses butt about the heat.
I am very sorry that you will not be there though.
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Gripmaker:
That is bad news! I was looking forward to seeing you again .... :'(
As a visitor from cooler climes, I assume that a cooler filled with Gatorade or the like may be advisable.
Mind you, the area around Medicine Hat is classed as "semi-desert', and we frequently get summer temperatures approaching - or even exceeding - 100 degrees .... :P
(However, I usually avoid running around a lot at such times! ;) )
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@ Rattlesnake ("Mr.Martini"):
I have been attempting to reload M-H using CBC brass (reformed 24g shotshells - very thin brass), but cannot get LESS than 100 grains FG, filled to the bottom of the neck. I KNOW I dont want filler or wadding below the shoulder...need I try using a "mix" of cream o' wheat with my black to increase the bulk? Any problems with it separating/settling after extended storage or being shaken/jostled around?
I am also "Lucky" enough to have obtained 60 rounds of loaded "short chamber Boxer Henry point 4 5 calibre" in good Jamison brass (from Buffalo Arms). Ironically, the difference in prices of loaded cartridges and empty brass, it is actually more economical to buy it already loaded. I will probably have to get at least 40-50 more rounds for the Muster in October - can't make it to Nebr. this month....
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You will be missed Captain Little. I was actually looking forward to one of your sermons. Take care of yourself, we will forge on without you. The summer heat is nothing to trifle with. I just hope to find Nebraska a bit cooler than Arizona.
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In addition to whatever lube the grease grooves of the bullet carry, I (like many other shooters of the Martini) use "grease cookies" in my loads for enhanced lubrication .....
Melt a shallow layer (e.g. 1/8" or 3/16") of suitable lube in a flat, shallow pan, let it set and then cut out discs of the lube with an appropriate sized punch - an old cartridge case with the base cut off works well for this. Load with a close-fitting card wad over the powder, followed by the lube wad, then another card wad. Milk carton material works nicely for the card wads, as it is impermeable to the grease and keeps it from contaminating the powder or sticking to the base of the bullet .....
For the past several years I have been making my own black powder lube - which looks and performs very much like SPG - by melting together roughly equal parts of beeswax and olive oil, mixing well and then letting it set up. The proportions of the two ingredients can be varied to make the finished product harder or softer, as desired.
If you are a Martini-Henry shooter - or have an interest in any of the other historic British firearms, for that matter - you should check into British Militaria Forums, where I am a moderator. The name is rather deceiving: these forums are almost exclusively dedicated to collecting and shooting Victorian-era (and earlier) British firearms .....
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/ (http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/)
Thanks for the tips.
As it happens I am on the British Militaria Forum. I post as Doug Strong. That is where I first saw your posts.
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..... I have been attempting to reload M-H using CBC brass (reformed 24g shotshells - very thin brass), but cannot get LESS than 100 grains FG, filled to the bottom of the neck. .....
Dave:
That, unfortunately, is one of the most significant problems with these admittedly economical CBC-based cases .... the other difficulty, in my view, is their potential weakness and/or likely short lifespan ..... being both thin-walled and semi-balloonhead as they are.
For those reasons, coupled with the wish to avoid the considerable extra hassle of forming the necessary bottleneck, I have no .577-450 cases formed from CBC brass. CBC brass is much better suited for forming straight-walled .577 Snider-Enfield cases, and I have a fair number of such cases made from CBC brass.
Frankly, I think you'd be better off getting a sufficient number of Jamieson case for the Martini, and hold the CBC cases in reserve .... or even put a Snider on your "wish list" and blow the CBC cases back out for use in that!
However, this wonderfully sage advice is of absolutely no help in resolving your immediate problem, is it? ::)
To be honest, I often use a filler extending below the shoulder in various bottleneck cases .... including the Martin-Henry .... but for several years now have used only "50/50 active filler" on top of a reduced black powder charge, as discussed on the British Militaria Forums. There has been some suggestion of late that this mix can separate into its constituent parts, and "DoubleD" recently indicated there that some loads made with 50/50 filler which were pulled apart showed such separation. However, I am of the view that this problem will not occur provided the filler is mixed using a suitable inactive component and that the powder charge and filler are compressed by the bullet during loading (just as a straight black powder charge should be compressed) .... and that is what I always do. I too have pulled apart some of my cartridges loaded in this fashion, following a considerable passage of time, and have noted no such separation.
Rather than cream of wheat, I have almost always used a brand of quite coarse-ground corn meal readily available here .... the particles of which are angular, and similar in size to 2F powder. I avoid the use of finer-ground stuff which is also available (closer to flour in appearance) and I believe that makes the difference .... especially since, in his recent post, "DD" specifically commented on the differential in grain size making it understandable that the two components would separate. He, or someone else, also mentioned how difficult it was to keep their loose 50/50 filler evenly mixed in its container before putting it into the cartridge cases .... but that has never been a problem with my mixture, either.)
The theory behind the use of a 50/50 mix as a filler (without empirical proof, so far as I know) is that the black powder mixed throughout the filler burns when the main powder charge goes off and thus prevents the danger posed by the filler possibly "slugging up" in the neck of the case.
On the issue of calculating the powder charge and quantity of 50/50 mix to use, the "conventional wisdom" on British Militaria Forums has been that the full quantity of black powder contained in the 50/50 mix should be factored into the "total powder charge". However, I personally don't think that it should count on a straight 1:1 basis, since its "contribution" to the effect of the powder charge must be compromised somewhat by being mixed with an equal volume of inert material.
Assuming for illustrative purposes, that the volumetric equivalent of 90 grains black powder constitutes a "full charge" which will be suitably compressed by whatever bullet/wad/grease cookie combination is being used, one wants to build a column of straight black powder, topped by the 50/50 mix, which will fill exactly the same volume in the case. (For practical purposes, of course, one measures both the straight black powder and the 50/50 mix using the same "grains by volume" type of measure.)
Although I honestly can't say where it comes from, another "gut feeling" I have is that it seems advisable to avoid using a volume of the 50/50 filler equal to (or greater than) the volume of the powder charge. Intuition somehow tells me that the volume of the black powder charge should always be somewhat greater than the volume of even an "active" filler going on top of it.
Working with my suggested example based on "90 grains by volume", the conventional "simple" view would hold that a charge of 50 grains (volume measure) of black powder, topped by 40 grains (volume measure) of 50/50 mix should be viewed as the equivalent of a 70 grain charge of straight black powder - i.e. adding the 50 grain powder charge and the 20 grains of powder in that volume of 50/50 filler. In my view, however, the 'effective contribution' of the powder in the filler mix will undoubtedly be somewhat reduced.
In practical terms, however, a bit of experimentation (such as always seems necessary in developing optimal black powder loads anyway) should soon give you a combination that works for you. (For what it is worth, my reduced Martini-Henry load for GAF shooting, using soft-cast 405 grain unsized .457"/.458'" bullets intended for the .45-70, has been precisely what I mention above - i.e. 50 grains (volume) powder topped by 40 grains (volume) of 50/50 mix. With the more voluminous CBC cases, in order to get the top of the filler right up into the neck, you might have to go with something like 55 grains powder topped by 45 grains 50/50 mix .... or perhaps even a bit more of each.
Now that I have you totally confused ..... what the heck are you doing trespassing on my "British Empire" turf, anyway? ??? :'( ;)
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Jack, it makes me glad I shoot a .50-70 (or two!) It seems much less complicated!
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For Queen and Empire, a man must do what he must do! ;D
Mind you, the only reason I have to go to all that trouble is to download to maximum GAF specs! I am in the process of loading a batch of "full house" Martini-Henry cartridges - 90 grains of powder and a 480 grain bullet - nowhere near as much fussing necessary with those .... ::)
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Looks like we will perhaps get a small break from the heat:
http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Sargent+NE+USNE0432:1:US
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YIKES! Are you saying that 93 degrees is a "break from the heat??? ???
I guess khaki drill field dress will be the order of the day for the entire shoot. Will likely leave anything made of wool at home, so as to avoid any temptation .... ::)
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10 degrees is better than nothing.
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YIKES! Are you saying that 93 degrees is a "break from the heat??? ???
I guess khaki drill field dress will be the order of the day for the entire shoot. Will likely leave anything made of wool at home, so as to avoid any temptation .... ::)
Not sure about Nebraska, but here in Missouri it's been over 100 about every day for the last week, or maybe 10 days. 104 today. Any unwatered grass is brown, some trees are dropping leaves already. About 1/4 or 1/3 of the corn across from my house is brown and dead. But there's supposed to be a break in the weather this weekend, maybe some rain and low 90's.
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Chicago is looking the same. 103 today.
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Jerry;What is the schedule, side matches, & main match?
Brian
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Side matches on Friday, probably just the EEM, maybe a long range pistol. Friday afternoon we'll sight in for the long range match (which is now included in computations for the Department Champion). Main match and Long Range friday. Finish any unfinished stages Sunday morning. Why, is there a chance you'll be able to come? :o
BTW When I got in the pickup this afternoon to go to Cambridge for the lodge poles for my Teepee, the thermometer showed 108. 90 would feel like a nice cool down. The forecast for the next few days is the low 80's but warming back up to around 90 by the weekend. :-\
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Kind of a stretch, if I could get off at noon Friday, I could get in the area by 10:00PM, shoot main match Saturday, the drive back on Sunday. Not a relaxing schedule.
Brian
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Kind of a stretch, if I could get off at noon Friday, I could get in the area by 10:00PM, shoot main match Saturday, the drive back on Sunday. Not a relaxing schedule.
Brian
Come on out and do it!
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AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, now that I have calmed down a bit. It is with deep regret and frustration that I must withdraw from this year's Dept. of the Missouri Muster.
Unfortunately, I understand the feeling, due to several things I will have to pass on the Dept Muster, too. Budget won't allow to make it a "family" trip, and I don't want to go by myself for a 5 day minimum trip because (insert drum roll here) WE"RE EXPECTNG AGAIN!!! ;D ;D ;D She's not due untill January, I'm going to have to work out how to be at Grand Muster, since it's not 10 hours from home.
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Congratulations!!!!
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Congratulations
:D
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If you could, we'd love to see you.
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2200+ round trip,no problem. 10 days, (mothers wedding after muster), no problem. Time on the road by myself, no problem.
Congratulations Pony Express, BTW
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Overnighting in Cody, Wyoming. Will be going to the Buffalo Bill Historical Center (again) tomorrow and will see what else there may be to take in here, then a relatively short jaunt to Casper for another day of poking around, then heading towards Sargent ....
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I'm planning on leaving Lincoln about noon tomorrow.
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Why so soon? Have a lot of prep work to do?
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My Springfield will arrive tomorrow afternoon according to UPS. then I will hiot the road and probably drive as far as Lincoln or Kearney. That should make the Thurdsay drive easy. I need specific information about the site and if there are any tricks to getting there. is that posted somewhere?
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Why so soon? Have a lot of prep work to do?
Not really but a day of doing not much sounds good.
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I need specific information about the site and if there are any tricks to getting there. is that posted somewhere?
41°40'16.24"N Latitude and 99°19'42.54"W Longitude
Start with that, if you want to park at Jerry's house with your car that's fine. I'll have my phone on and will pm you the #.
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Not really but a day of doing not much sounds good.
It does at that. If I didn't have a housefull of company I'd join you. I'll be there sometime Thursday.
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Oh, Doug if you come on up do make the hard right turn when you get to the top of the irragation ditch, don't go on straight. ;D
And don't worry about Jerry's bridge, I'll test it first. ;)
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I should be in Friday midday.
Just got back from a weekend family reunion in Detroit this past weekend, and I really don't feel like doing too much either . . .
Maybe I'll just plink with the Vetterli trying out different loads, shoot the Long Range and forego the Main stages. I'd be free to help out with helping to work stages then, or being under foot in the cook camp.
RCJ
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I pack tonight and leave from work tomorrow, 12 hour trip, will arrive Thursday sometime. Will have my own tent to set up in camp. Believe I have enough information to find Jerry's house but am not sure from there for directions or the ability of my car to make it to the camp. Any help on what to so when I get to his house would be appreciated.
A side note, just took delivery of my Springfield-Remington model 1871 rolling block 50-70. Don't have any ammo to shoot in it yet so it stays at home this trip. Hope to have it ready to shoot by the Grand Muster. I am bringing my C96 Broomhandle with stock for us to play with on paper. Has not been shot since I purchased it, just got the ammo a couple weeks ago.
Scout
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John, you know yer welcome to hang around camp. I was talking to Jerry today and because of the dry conditions we want someone in camp at all times, so I won't be able to leave and make any needed ice/grocery runs. I could send you or have you do fire watch while I run.
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I pack tonight and leave from work tomorrow, 12 hour trip, will arrive Thursday sometime. Will have my own tent to set up in camp. Believe I have enough information to find Jerry's house but am not sure from there for directions or the ability of my car to make it to the camp. Any help on what to so when I get to his house would be appreciated.
A side note, just took delivery of my Springfield-Remington model 1871 rolling block 50-70. Don't have any ammo to shoot in it yet so it stays at home this trip. Hope to have it ready to shoot by the Grand Muster. I am bringing my C96 Broomhandle with stock for us to play with on paper. Has not been shot since I purchased it, just got the ammo a couple weeks ago.
Scout
Scout,
If you want to bring your rolling block, I should have a few extra rounds to shoot in it. I'll be shooting my Springfield Navy rolling block in the main match.
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Scout,
If you want to bring your rolling block, I should have a few extra rounds to shoot in it. I'll be shooting my Springfield Navy rolling block in the main match.
Thanks for the offer, but my car is full as it is. Maybe you would allow me to shoot your rolling block a little and share your load information.
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Can and will do!
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I'm still out of commission. So we never got the mulberry jelly made for the mess section. Nor the mulberry wine for dessert. 8)
But if I can reach Delmonico, I will get him several pounds of our pork 'pepper-sage' sausage and eggs for fixing breakfast.
Have a fine muster, troopers!
Mustang Gregg
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Thanks for the offer Greg but the Commissary is about to hit the road. I need to pick up dry ice and drop the bank card off to my wife and I should be west bound a little after noon.
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I'm just waiting for the UPS driver to arrive. The car is packed and I am ready. Time cannot pass more slowly! Given the late start I plan to sleep in Council Bluffs tonight.
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Stopped just north of Oklahoma City this evening. Did not get away from the University early like I wanted to. Was still the last person out locking the doors and setting the alarm about 6:30 pm. Then headed North on I 35.
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Underway, shift colors!
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But are you "Haze Gray"?!
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Well it's in the books. I belive a good time was had by all... inspite of the heat. Cowtown Scout was the Department Champion. Will file a complete report following my tour of the Department of the Atlantic.
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The Commisarry Dept arrived to it's home base about 6:30 after a minor snag on route.
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The Commisarry Dept arrived to it's home base about 6:30 after a minor snag on route.
Did you have some trouble with The General?
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Did you have some trouble with The General?
Well the thing is it wasn't really his fault and he got me through despite a minor mix-up. I had a minor trouble with one of it's minor uniqueness's, my memory and the wind. As was I was not left stranded by the road in 100 degree weather.
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What a great time! It was hot, but we avoided the worst of it by taking a siesta/bull session from noon to 5. Great Skirmish runs, you need to see how this is set up to really appreciate. Fun to watch the shooters demeanor change, starting off run and gun, soon changing to an infantrymans walk, slightly crouched, head swiviling looking for targets. (no one tells them this, it just happens)
6 tents, one lean to, one large teepee for extra folks, a fly for shade, a shower, a stock tank (Someone has pictures). Plenty food, plenty good!
Krags, Trapdoors, a Mosin, a Vetterli, a Rolling block, and a Martini-Henry all shot the main match. O3's, a 1917, a Mosin, and one poor Canadian Ross made the Expansion run. ( Halfway thru his problematic run, Rattlesnake Jack was muttering about finding an expired Tommy and stealing his SMLE . . .) Cowtown Scout takes the Departmental Championship, and Stu Kettle has another shot up Maxim "Gun Shoot Thingy Trophy".
Cowtown Scout brought his Broomhandle for folks to try, Jack let my son shoot one of his Webleys. (he loved it, If only I could find one i could afford!)
Hopefully we'll have pictures and video up soon. Just a wonderful time!
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I'm going to try, I've had connection problems all day.
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After the Muster was over, Strong and I toured Fort Hartsuff before departing the area. He then headed back to Illinois and I headed West. Stayed last night in Cheyenne Wyoming and then toured museums there today and now have a much better understanding of the great history there in the 1800's. Then late today headed South into Colorado and am now in Denver where I will be attending a business related conference. Will head back to Texas this coming weekend and post photos after I get back. Probably not until the following weekend.
It sure was great to see some folks I had meet at the last two grand musters as well as meeting some new folks I had only read posts from here in the barracks. Wonderful event even with the heat during the middle of the day. Sure was glad it cooled off for sleeping in tents. A lot of hard work went into putting on this event and it was most appreciated by all who attended.
Scout
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File any reports and pictures here:
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,44406.0.html
Colonel Pitspiter is absent, but with leave and will file his report soon.
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Did you have some trouble with The General?
For those who don't know it, "The General" as Salt Crick Rick has named it, or "The Rolling Death Trap" as River City John has named it, is the transportation of The Commissary Dept:
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i200/Delmonico_1885/Cars/Copyofpick-up007.jpg)
It has two tanks and a 300 cid in-line 6 and a 5 speed so fuel consumption is less than most pick-ups.
As we packed, Paul, Jerry and I drank the last gallon and a half or so of the remaining ice tea/gatorade mixture. I did go before I left and went to Sargent and filled the side tank, fuel consumption at that time was about normal considering the many trips to town. But that's were things started going wrong. See the side tank has a fuel sender that doesn't work and a recent problem with the rear tank that has a working sender causes it not to run well, either a filter or more likely a slight kink in the line. Recent heat kept me from getting it solved. It will run, but not well.
Ok, 20 gallons should run me into Lincoln, no problem, but I will stop on the way since I also bought two 16 oz Ginseng Green Teas with honey.
And that's where it started, heading into heavy head winds and cross winds started it, I was tired and added cruise control which makes things worse. (My driving style without cruise gets better mileage.) I took Highway 92 because it has less traffic and added more hills. Because of being a bit dehydrated at that point yep, I didn't need to stop, but no problem right?
Well I made a mistake, the side tank is only 15 gallons and the back tank is the 20 gallon one. After passing Rising City it fluttered and died and i switched tanks and it took, Oh Poop, the gauge says empty!. The next town is David City but it is off the highway about 3 miles and not a good chance for gas, I didn't have a debit card and not all those towns have ones with card readers either, so that was not the best option anyway. The sign say Seward, 22 miles so I headed on, a co-worker lives in Seward and a call would have brought rescue if he was home. ::)
I turned on Highway 15 and headed south into a very nasty head wind with a pick-up that would only run at half throttle and a road with some hills, closer and closer the water tower came, till a ways into town a Git and Split appeared. ;D
I had to be running on nearly on fumes because it fluttered and retook just as i made the top of the last hill, but I made it to the pump. The rest of the trip was un-eventful. ;D
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YOU DO like to keep things interesting, don t you. Just push it right to the edge and hang onto the suspense. Just think how boring the trip would have been without any concerns, you might have dozed off from the monotony. Glad to here you made it to home base save.
I too made my destination-so far-. I am at the North east Nebraska Arens base camp. Mother is taking a new Husband this evening and I will start my trec back to the Southwest tomorrow.