LOADING TIPS FOR .56-56 ORIGINALS

[Tuolumne Lawman]

LOADING FOR THE .56-.56 is not too bad if you use Buffalo Arms brass (I believe is is 1.08" ) and Rapine .535 375 grain.  The key is to not over compress the powder, as that is what causes the bullets to tip and not seat straight. If they are tipped, they can be more prone to popping out when fed. 

When the brass is virgin (unfired), I load 37 grains (volume) of Triple 7 FFG.  After firing, the cases are a little expanded from the virgin state and will take 38.5 g grains, even after resizing.  This closely duplicates the 42 grain original load of BP as the Triple 7 is 10-15% hotter per volume.  The 4D dies from Buffalo are $89 and crimp the case mouth arpound the heel, as long as you don't use too much powder!

After assembling them, I found an easy way to lube them (since they are outside lubed after assembly, unlike the 56-50) is to get some LEE alox liquid lube.  I paint on a thick coat around the base of the bullet where it joins the case and in the grease lube with a small 1/4" wide paint brush from a hooby store.  The lude dries over night, and is not as messy and sticky as Beeswax/Crisco or SPG.  It seems to keep the leading down, also.

When I cast the bullets, I cast fairly hard, using wheel weights and linotype metal.  That way they don't deform when feeding.

[Glenn]

I have heard that you can get away with longer than standard cases in some 56-56's and reduce the problems. 

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

That's correct.  The Buffalo Arms brass is longer than orignal, and the rapine 56-56 375 grain mould has a tad longer heel to accomadate the longer BAC cases.  I have never had a bullet break loose with those combinations..  If you over compress the powder load in a 56-56, though, they will seat at an angle, since there is still little surface area inside the walls of the case.  56-50 you can compress loads to the point they swell the cases, and they will still seat straight!

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[Bead Swinger]

Hi All -
I finally got some buffalo-arms 56-56 brass (modified starline 50-70 brass), and have some questions:

I'm using the Rapine 535-370 ball, cast in an alloy slightly softer than wheel-weight, and the 4D 56-56 Spencer die set.  I'm setting the length by setting the heel of the ball into the case top.  The overall length seems good, esp. when compared to other rounds that cycle well.

Issues:
1) Loose Crimp?  I've been practicing crimping by making up unloaded rounds and cycling them through the rifle.  Unfortunatly, about 1 of 3 rounds will leave the ball in the chamber. When I examine the ball, the lead is compressed, so it seems to be doing the job, but the lead is too soft.  Should I be using something to help keep the ball in?  The LEE Alox lube? Could this be because of a failure to anneal the cases? (they are straight from the bag).

2) Tight bullet fit?     With my cut-down DGW 50-70 and  56-50 Starline brass, the 4D expander seems to expand the case nicely to set the heel of the ball; however, with the new Starline 50-70, the expander isn't expanding quite enough, the heel won't go in easily.  Is this an annealing issue?  A die issue?  I don't remember, but I might have had this problem before I actually fired my older brass.

Ideas, recommendations, and suggestions welcome.

Beadswinger
1860 R #53954

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

Try very hard cast alloy.  I started with 1/20 alloy, and had that problem. I added linotype metal, and it held the bullets MUCH better and made leading non-existant.

TL

[Trailrider]

See my post under the other topic.  If you could get your hands on the old Lyman #533476AX mould, you could also use it.  However, since it is an inside-lubed bullet (and hollow base), you'd have to inside ream the cases with a .525" taper-nose (so you don't create a sharp corner on the inside of the case) inside case reamer.  That would be a custom proposition, however.  These bullets, cast from #2 alloy produced good results using 24.2 gr (by weight) of Pyrodex P.  An interesting thing is that the internal case capacity and the Relative Sectional Density of the bullets come out to the vicinity of the .45 LC!  This bullet weighed about 411 gr.  MV ran around 800 ft/sec.

[Note: I DISCOURAGE shooting any firearm that is 140-odd years old, even with BP or BP substitutes!]

[Bead Swinger]

Thanks for the advice. 

I'm trying a harder alloy, and the paint-on lube.  I'm taking her out to my first SASS shoot this weekend.  We'll see how she does.  I've got 60 rounds loaded.  'Should be fun.  'Never had that many tubes in my Blakeslee filled up!

Beadswinger
1860R-#23954

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

When I had the 56-56, I used LEE alox lube.  Just painted it on the bullet after assembly.

[Bead Swinger]

Well, I managed my first SASS shoot this past weekend.  Definitely fun, but I'm slower than molassas in December. While I realize that most people think I'm crazy to use smokeless (TrailBoss) in my original, I have to admit that the smokeless loads were like gallery shots compared to the few BP rounds I had on hand.

The Trail Boss loads were 20gr, 19, and 18.5 gr (by volume) behind 390 gr Rapine RNFPH with LEE Alox.  The 18.5's were REALLY slow. I'll have to take the 20s (8gr by weight) and clock them to see what speed they're producing. The BP loads were ~35gr compressed BP, and they were definitely zingers. 

The rifle was very accurate, and with the first seven rounds, I could keep a good cadence.  Once the tube was empty, it was a question as to the best way to reload - single fire the remaining 2-3 rounds, or tube load and return to the cadence. 

In the 5 stages we shot, I only jammed two cases on extraction, and I think I only lost two cases in the leaves.

In all, it was fun, but I was amazingly surprised at how close all of the targets were.  The longest shots we had were only about 30 yds, and I was expecting to be shooting pistols at those ranges!  Very surprising. And I have a lot to learn about handling C&B pistols.  I think I better invest in R/Ms or Open Tops.  Any suggestions?

Thanks
Beadswinger
1860R - #23954

[Arizona Trooper]

I have had my best results with soft bullets, cast from 20 to 1 lead/tin or 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead. Bullets need to be able to expand on firing. That gets rid of the heal and allows the slug to expand and fill the grooves. Every original rifle I have slugged has grooves that taper .003" to .005" in depth. If you drive a slug through and measure .535" groove diameter, it will actually be .538"-.540" at the chamber mouth. I've seen as much as .543" just ahead of the chamber. Most moulds are ~.535", which is too small. 

The Rapine bullets are fine in carbines, but don't hold enough lube for black powder in rifles, especially if your bore is less than perfect. You need a grease wad between the powder and bullet. An alternative is to buy the Owziak bullet mould. It has much larger grease grooves and a beveled base, sort of like the Wilkinson design. When the heel collapses, the base doesn't become dished, which helps accuracy. Jim Leinieke and I designed it for N-SSA shooting (50-100 yard). It weighs ~375 grains. Jim and I have both won medals with this bullet. If anyone is interested, I'll post ordering info. I'm on the road and it's at the house.

When you cut off 50-70 cases, size them and neck ream to .512". The thinner walls help case expansion and feeding. You can still crimp the thin walls with CH-4D 56-50 dies.

Use a powder compression die! Pre-compress the powder so that the bullet just seats against the charge. This will usually fix the problem of bullets sticking in the chamber and generally makes loading a lot easier, with no deformed noses or cocked seating. I made my neck sizer into a compression die by squaring up the end and recutting a smaller end radius. This works fine with card wads and still allows it to be used as a neck sizer.

Using the Owziak bullet, I load 32 grains of Swiss FF with a pasteboard card wad. Lube is 50-50 bees wax/olive oil. This will chrono at about 850 fps and is very clean and accurate. At an N-SSA 50 yard match, I shot 8 rounds, got 6 hits, relaoded (from a Blakeslee box) and was aiming at the last hanging clay pigeon when a teammate hit it. Total time, <45 seconds.   

[Highpower]

Went out and shot the 56. Tried three powders, two bullets,two diff brass. Looking at my notes, all loads
had vertical displacement.Anywhere from 4" ( acceptable ) for 5rds to 10" for 14 rds. Seems rifle would hit high and start droping lower as the rds were fired. Is this a bedding/ heating problem normal for this old gun?  Horizontal was minimal.