Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L

Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Uberti, Pietta and other SAA Clones => Topic started by: Virginia Gentleman on December 27, 2012, 03:22:35 PM

Title: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on December 27, 2012, 03:22:35 PM
Tell me why you prefer one over the other and what about them makes them better over the other? Shootability, durability, overall quality, casehardening, bluing or other finishes, smoothness in operation and authenticity comparion comments, please.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on January 11, 2013, 12:15:40 PM
Anyone have an opinion?
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Abilene on January 11, 2013, 03:41:57 PM
I will repeat what I posted in another topic:

"Cimarron does sell both Uberti and Pietta SAA's and I have handled quite a few of each.  If authenticity is important to you then Uberti all the way, for a number of small and large differences I won't go into.  If authenticity is not and you just want something for either competition or general shooting, then either is a nice six shooter.  Pietta generally feels much smoother out of the box.  Lighter springs for sure.  Feels like more polish inside as well.  Pietta has squared front and rear sights versus tapered front and v-notch rear of the standard Uberti Model P.  There are other Model P's like the Evil Roys and stainless guns that do have squared sights.  Uberti has the polyurethane finish on the grips.  I've seen the Pietta the same way but I think oiled grip is the standard now.  The Uberti's could use lighter springs, and for some folks that is all they need.  Both brands tend to be timed pretty well out of the box.  I think both brands can hold up well for CAS use.  Serious competitors would want to get an action job with either, though the Pietta might need less work.   I like the Ubertis better for the authentiicity issues. "

Now, having said that, I think that the Uberti Cattleman from some importers other than Cimarron might still have the "safety hammer" with hammer-block linkage in the hammer.  I don't care too much for the looks of that.  Regarding finish, I think the blued cylinders and barrels on the current Piettas are slightly more polished than Uberti.  The case colors on the Pietta tend to be brighter than the average Uberti Cattleman, although the case colors Uberti puts on the Cimarron Model P's looks about the same as the Pietta to me.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 11, 2013, 10:06:41 PM

I'd like to be cantankerous and do a great long dissertation, but I think Abilene covered it nicely.  Pietta and Uberti both did away with the traditional flat hand spring which eliminated 90 percent of the reliability issues.  Piettas require less work to be truly competitive therefore I consider them a better value for dollar.  Both are great guns.

Coffinmaker
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Gen Lew Wallace on January 12, 2013, 06:04:59 PM
Thank you for sharing gentlemen.  It's always helpful to hear from the experience of others.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Pettifogger on January 12, 2013, 11:03:49 PM
I always get a chuckle out of "are the fake Italian Colt copies authentic?"  If you want "authentic" the only thing that is is a Colt.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Shotgun Franklin on January 13, 2013, 09:27:58 AM
I've owned and shot both company's SAA clones. Out of the box the Pietta is much smoother. The Uberti is a better copy of the original.
In my experience avoid the Remington 1875 clones like they are death. They are totally unreliable.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Lefty Dude on January 13, 2013, 01:04:26 PM
My Cimarron/Uberti SAA Artilliary model BP frame is one nice piece for the money. It is no Colt as I have several. For an out of the box piece it is of good quality. I changed the main spring to a lighter Wolff spiing and also replace the leaf trigger/bolt spring with a reduced leaf spring.
This piece is very accurate, the bore slugs .450" and the cylinder throats are .4505". I use this 45 for long range side matches. Sorry to say, it out shoots my Colts.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on January 13, 2013, 06:02:19 PM
I don't think that authenticity compared to the original design is trivial as it shows how a SAA with out the pony can be as close or even closer to a first or second gen Colt than the current offering from the company that calls itself Colt.  Roll marks and sights etc distingush them from say Pietta who does not put on the patent dates so to me it looks less authentic.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 13, 2013, 10:14:10 PM

I also chuckle whenever I hear "Your buying a piece of History" from the Coltistas.  Nope.  Just another new gun.  For 2013 we should eliminate "period correct" and "clone" from our vocabulary.  Change those words to profanity and just ban "em.

Coffinmaker
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on January 14, 2013, 09:31:19 AM
What?  Ban the terms or guns?  In any even, authentic as a reproduction would be more accurate and I agree, the 3rd gen Colt is nothing but a new gun with a heavily altered design with little in common with a 1st gen.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Pettifogger on January 14, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
What?  Ban the terms or guns?  In any even, authentic as a reproduction would be more accurate and I agree, the 3rd gen Colt is nothing but a new gun with a heavily altered design with little in common with a 1st gen.
[/color]

I'll have to challenge this statement.  There were numerous changes throughout the life of the 1st Gen Colts.  There were numerous changes throughout the life of the 2nd Gens and there have been changes throughout the life of the 3rd Gens.  If I took barrels, frames, hammers, hands, bolts, back straps and trigger guards and put them on a table are you saying you could tell them apart?  Without doing a Google search and based on your personal knowledge as of right now can you name the differences between a 3rd Gen and a 1st or 2nd Gen?  What changes have been made that constitute "a heavily altered design with little in common with a 1st gen?"  I would say that statement is as our great VP Joe Biden would say, Malarkey.  ANYTHING with a long production life has changes throughout its production life cycle.  There were over one million Winchester Model 97s made.  Do you think the ones made in 1897 are the same as those made in 1957 when production ceased?  I'll answer that for you.  No.  And no one will say that the last 97s made aren't true to the design of the first ones made.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on January 14, 2013, 05:41:54 PM
Quote
I'll have to challenge this statement.  There were numerous changes throughout the life of the 1st Gen Colts.  There were numerous changes throughout the life of the 2nd Gens and there have been changes throughout the life of the 3rd Gens.  If I took barrels, frames, hammers, hands, bolts, back straps and trigger guards and put them on a table are you saying you could tell them apart?  Without doing a Google search and based on your personal knowledge as of right now can you name the differences between a 3rd Gen and a 1st or 2nd Gen?  What changes have been made that constitute "a heavily altered design with little in common with a 1st gen?"  I would say that statement is as our great VP Joe Biden would say, Malarkey.  ANYTHING with a long production life has changes throughout its production life cycle.  There were over one million Winchester Model 97s made.  Do you think the ones made in 1897 are the same as those made in 1957 when production ceased?  I'll answer that for you.  No.  And no one will say that the last 97s made aren't true to the design of the first ones made.

So in your angry little tirade, did you just say that a new currently manufactured Colt isn't all that close to a 1st generation and only slightly closer to a 2nd generation? I ask because that kind of contradicts your earlier statement.....
Quote
If you want "authentic" the only thing that is is a Colt.
If they have changed from the 1st and 2nd generation designs, what are the currently made Colts authentic to? By your own comment, doesn't that mean that they are no more "authentic" (and possibly less so) to 1st and 2nd generation Colt SAAs than a Uberti copy of a 1st or 2nd gen?
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Pettifogger on January 14, 2013, 06:14:25 PM
Wasn't angry and wasn't a tirade.  Simply asking what the poster seems to think constitutes a "heavily altered design with little in common to a 1st Gen?"  My statements don't contradict anything.  There are production changes in all mechanical devices.  The basic operation and design of the SAA has not changed since they were introduced in 1873.  You can't get anymore "authentic" than buying from the creator/maker.  If you want to ask whether an Italian clone is authentic you have to ask authentic to what era?  A 1936 Beetle has numerous changes from the last ones produced in the 1980s, yet there is no doubt they are a Beetle and the basic elements of the design are the same.  A lot of people keep harping on the "changes" in the 3rd gen without realizing there were NUMEROUS changes in the 1st and 2nd Gens as well.  Most of the people who express these concerns have no idea what changes were even made to the 3rd Gens.  To suggest that a 3rd Gen Colt somehow is not an "authentic" SAA Colt is just baloney.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Lefty Dude on January 14, 2013, 06:25:32 PM
In my humble opinion, a Colt is a Colt no matter the age. All others are wanna-bee's.

My third-gen Colts will out live my Uberti by many years. because of the superior steel , small parts and quality.

If you compare component for component part there is a very noticeable difference in quality.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on January 14, 2013, 06:44:00 PM
Quote
If you want to ask whether an Italian clone is authentic you have to ask authentic to what era?

Wouldn't the same go for Colts? A 3rd generation (with the changes made to 2nd and 3rd gens) wouldn't be "authentic" to a 1st gen. Nor would a 3rd be "authentic" to a 2nd. So how is a 3rd "authentic" to any other era than now? Yet, if an Italian copy is made with the same features as a 1st gen Colt, wouldn't that be a more "authentic" copy to a 1st gen than a 3rd gen Colt?

Quote
You can't get anymore "authentic" than buying from the creator/maker.

How do you figure that one? If the current product that is produced is different than the original product that they produced, the current product is not "authentic" to the original product. For instance, are modern made Levi 501 jeans "authentic" to the ones Levis made in the 1870s? By your logic, yes. They are still made by the original "creator/maker".

Quote
A lot of people keep harping on the "changes" in the 3rd gen without realizing there were NUMEROUS changes in the 1st and 2nd Gens as well.

What does that even mean? Changes made to the 1st gen line are still "authentic" to a 1st gen. Same for a 2nd. Changes to the 3rd gens still aren't "authentic" to a 1st or 2nd gen.

Quote
To suggest that a 3rd Gen Colt somehow is not an "authentic" SAA Colt is just baloney.

On the other hand, to suggest that a 3rd generation Colt is "authentic" to a 1st or 2nd generation Colt is also "baloney".
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on January 14, 2013, 06:54:00 PM
Quote
In my humble opinion, a Colt is a Colt no matter the age.

And a Ford is a Ford and a Chevy is a Chevy. Is a new Ford Mustang, the same as a 1967 Ford Mustang? No. They are made by the same maker and have the same name, but they aren't the same car.

Quote
All others are wanna-bee's.

Careful with that statement on a forum where most of the posters dress up and pretend to be a cowboy.

Quote
My third-gen Colts will out live my Uberti by many years. because of the superior steel , small parts and quality.

I have a twenty year old Uberti .44 magnum that's eaten a couple thousand off the shelf .44 magnum loads with nary a hiccup.

If you prefer a Colt over a Uberti, fantastic. Buy as many as you can. But show a little respect and don't bash or insult other people's choices in guns with condescending crap like......
Quote
I always get a chuckle out of "are the fake Italian Colt copies authentic?"  If you want "authentic" the only thing that is is a Colt.
and...
Quote
In my humble opinion, a Colt is a Colt no matter the age. All others are wanna-bee's.


Not everyone can afford, or wants to pay another $700-$800 just for a cute little horsey and the word "COLT" to be stamped on their guns.
Of course, I can buy 3-4 Ubertis for the price of one Colt, and as far as accuracy, function and durability the Colt can't do anything that the Ubertis can't.





Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on January 14, 2013, 08:29:51 PM
I also contend that 4130 and 4140 steel is the same the world over, so if one is made from them and so is the other, where is the superiority in materials?  Forged frames are forged frames from the same metal.  Fit and finish on the replicas can actually be better than the Colt from some manufacterers/importers.  Small parts on the single action design are frail by nature and it amazes me that they hold up as well as they do.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on April 28, 2013, 08:53:33 AM
Of course, I can buy 3-4 Ubertis for the price of one Colt, and as far as accuracy, function and durability the Colt can't do anything that the Ubertis can't.

my experience is the opposite with lead bullets...I really had a hard time getting accuracy at 25 meters with UBERTIs, mainly because of a very inadequate rifling for lead bullets, and crazy dimensions in chambers, that were not even perfectly round. The dimensions run, in the same cylinder, from 456 to 462". Colt´s  are very very uniform in that aspect,  however.

as a matter of fact, I had less accuracy problems with the underrated TAURUS GAUCHO, than with UBERTI. As far as I know, many of these problems have been corrected by UBERTI in their current production, so a modern Uberti is allways a better buy than and old one..

the Colts made my life a lot easier as a shooter...would shoot great with most loads. A more shallow rifling and chambers well drilled, uniform of around 456". Just using a larger bullet with shallow grooves and  hollow base, made the gun shoot superb.

Piettas are more nicely finished than UBERTI, but in some models, I have noted the steel is softer in the frame, very typical in Pietta, nicely made, but cheaper steel. It wont affect durability much.





Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on April 28, 2013, 10:59:29 AM
Quote
Of course, I can buy 3-4 Ubertis for the price of one Colt, and as far as accuracy, function and durability the Colt can't do anything that the Ubertis can't.

my experience is the opposite with lead bullets...I really had a hard time getting accuracy at 25 meters with UBERTIs, mainly because of a very inadequate rifling for lead bullets, and crazy dimensions in chambers, that were not even perfectly round. The dimensions run, in the same cylinder, from 456 to 462". Colt very very uniform.

as a matter of fact, I had less accuracy problems with the underrated TAURUS GAUCHO, than with UBERTI. As far as I know, many of these problems have been corrected by UBERTI.

the Colt made my life a lot easier as a shooter...would shoot great with most loads. A more shallow rifling and chambers well drilled, uniform of around 456". Just using a larger bullet with shallow grooves and  hollow base, made the gun shoot superb.

Piettas are more nicely finished than UBERTI, but in some models, I have noted the steel is softer in the frame, very typical in Pietta, nicely made, but cheaper steel. It wont affect durability much.

As I have stated elsewhere, I am a cattle farmer in (very) rural WV. I also own a dozen or so Uberti firearms, both rifle and revolver. I carry my Uberti revolvers and rifles on a daily basis. They are with me in every type of weather. They have been covered in rain, snow, sweat and mud. I use them as "working" guns, not as target shooting guns. I have needed them in more than a few situations over the last twenty years or so. They have never failed me in accuracy or function. I have shot wild dogs and coyotes. I have put down sick and injured cows. I have killed snakes and groundhogs. During season my guns have taken numerous turkey and deer. Some with my revolvers and some with my rifles. From ranges of few feet to several yards away. When I do my part, my Ubertis do theirs. Now I may not have as much experience shooting at paper as you, but in the real world situations these guns were originally designed for I'm confident in their reliability and accuracy. That confidence comes from my experiences.

P.S. I only use lead bullets, and most of the time they are sitting on a full charge of black powder.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 28, 2013, 02:19:35 PM
I've owned Colt, Uberti, and Peitta's and in my experience the Uberti is the best bang for the buck. Peitta's finish just keeps getting better and better but they continue to use incredibly soft steel.

Considering this is a Cowboy action forum, tell me what a Colt will do in Cowboy action shooting that the Uberti wont.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on April 28, 2013, 02:51:10 PM
from the practical, real life, point of view,  I must agree with both of you, a UBERTI will do the same than the COLT at a fraction of the price. They are well made with excellent to good steel.

it doesnt pay off to buy a Colt or USFA unless you are a collector, a bullseye shooter or  a romantic that will value the much better finish, a finer barrel and a brand that is allways a good investment.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Abilene on April 28, 2013, 07:05:10 PM
...Considering this is a Cowboy action forum, tell me what a Colt will do in Cowboy action shooting that the Uberti wont.
Not a thing, functionally.  I shoot Colts and Cimarron Ubertis and they all function well for this game.  When I shoot my 1901-vintage .45 in one hand and matching anitque-finish Model P in the other, can't tell which is which.  But cowboy action shooting is enjoyed on many levels.  And there is just something kinda nice about knowing you are shooting Colts, even newer ones.  All of my Colts were bought used, so I could always get what I paid for them if need be.  Probably could for the Ubertis as well.  None were bought as investments, just for shooting, and if I can enjoy them without depreciation, I'm happy.

... or  a romantic that will value the much better finish, a finer barrel and a brand that is allways a good investment.

Guess I'm a romantic.   :)
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on April 28, 2013, 11:36:44 PM
...tell me what a Colt will do in Cowboy action shooting that the Uberti wont.

The same can be said for Ferrari vs. Ford. They'll both go from Point A to Point B. Well, make that some Fords.  ;D

I own both Colts & Ubertis. With Colt it's a pride of ownership thing. I really wish Colt had done a logical succession after their BP Series and made conversions as well as the '72 OT.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on April 29, 2013, 05:30:05 AM
Quote
With Colt it's a pride of ownership thing

You don't think people can be proud of their Ubertis? Or Piettas? Or anything else that doesn't say Colt on it?  ;D

I have owned 1st and 2nd generation Colts. I have owned 100 + year old Winchesters. Never wanted to carry them on the farm and get them beat up. Went to Ubertis. Problem solved. IMHO unless you're just talking 1st generation Colts, there really isn't any history to them. With a new Colt you're just buying a brand name. It's just another new gun. I have had my hands on several Colt SAAs made in the last decade. Not a whole lot of difference between them and a Uberti. At least not enough to justify (for me) paying three-four times the price of a Uberti for a gun that will do the exact same thing. If you buy Colts because you just prefer Colts, great. Buy as many as you can afford. Not a thing wrong with buying what you like. But some folks around here seem to look down on other folks for owning Italian clones instead of a genuine, bonafide, honest to God Colt. That's just kind of stupid.

Some folks can't afford a Ferrari. Some folks just think a Ford is a better deal. Me, I drive a Dodge. :P
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 29, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
The three or four Fords you can buy with the same money will outlast that Farrari.

Any current made guns will never be a true collectors item, especially in our lifetime. As long as Colt is in business and still making them one kept new in the box is worth no more than another new one. Once you start shooting that new Colt it depreciates.

I can understand the pride in ownership but the real pride in ownership to me is first or second gen SAA's. 

The difference in the cost of a new Uberti and a new Colt would be a good start toward buying an actual Colt worth cherishing.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on April 29, 2013, 09:17:01 AM

I have had my hands on several Colt SAAs made in the last decade. Not a whole lot of difference between them and a Uberti. At least not enough to justify (for me) paying three-four times the price of a Uberti for a gun that will do the exact same thing.


well, we should compare the finish, like  the sanding in the steel, for instance, between COLT and UBERTI:

 in modern Uberties, I can see today obvious sanding paper marks, and unpleasant tone, in blued parts like Cylinder and barrel,   when compared to excellent  COLT ROYAL BLUE, whose main characteristic  today is not  the polishing, but  the sanding, or more exactly, the lack of sanding marks, giving a delicious umblemished soft touch in the finish, with a very deep deep deep BLUEING,   that in my opinion only COLT gives to their Royal Blue Finish.

the COLT case hardening,  is also years apart from UBERTI, which, by the way, has improved in the last years, but that just cant compare with COLT´s, though I prefer the old Colt casehardening to the new one.

the steel is excellent in both COLT and UBERTI, though, in my opinion, Colt gives less troubles in the bolt stop and hammer notches. I had to replace my Uberti internal parts, but never had to do it with my many times shot 3rd generation COLTS.

I wont repeat the many problems with the rifling in UBERTIS, but some shooters here were so desperate with the poor results in accuracy terms with BP and lead bullets, that they started using balls, that solved the problem and were accurate. I am talking about people competing in 25 meters bullseye historical matches. Very serious matter, no smokeless, no jacketed bullets allowed.

so you are not just bying a brand, by buying COLT. You are buying, specially today,  excellent AMERICAN CRAFTMANSHIP. And believe me, that the "MADE IN USA" logo, is still very respected in the World today.

Americans are still known the world over today  for their excellency in  manufacturing, specially, hand tools and complicated machinery.

pd: Uberti has improved greatly chamber dimensions differences in the last years, but I still dont trust them for top accuracy.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 29, 2013, 01:15:38 PM
Get the US finish on the Cimarron if you want the same case coloring as a Colt. I believe I read the current production Colt's are being done by Turnbull.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on April 29, 2013, 01:33:00 PM
The finish, the word COLT and that cute little horsey won't make a coyote or raccoon any "deader". And when the gun sits in a leather holster as long as my Ubertis do, that finish isn't going to be pretty for very long. Like I said, I use my guns in the real world, not playing cowboy. None of the Ubertis I have owned have ever failed me. I have seen ill fitting grips, tool marks and crappy finishes on a $1300 Colt too. I have a beat up 20 year old Uberti buckhorn .44 magnum that has been to hell and back. It's ugly and hasn't offered so much as a single complaint. It has eaten a few thousand full power magnum loads. I had to replace the firing pin a few years ago and the bolt spring about 18 years ago. It still locks up tight and shoots quite well.
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss359/mjn77/SN853561_zpscd3a8bc5.jpg) (http://s591.photobucket.com/user/mjn77/media/SN853561_zpscd3a8bc5.jpg.html)
So you can talk about how the almighty Colt is the one and only true and bestest revolver in the world, and how the lowly Uberti is junk by comparison, but I know better. With all due respect.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on April 29, 2013, 02:00:37 PM
Here's where I get my opinions from. All Ubertis. Missing from this photo is a Uberti 1866 rifle and an 1873 short rifle that I just bought. I sold my henry and 24 inch 1873.
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss359/mjn77/SN853562_zps1c5eeafd.jpg) (http://s591.photobucket.com/user/mjn77/media/SN853562_zps1c5eeafd.jpg.html)
 This is the only Colt I still own. 1905 new service in 44-40.
(http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss359/mjn77/SN853564_zpsbb17b4d1.jpg) (http://s591.photobucket.com/user/mjn77/media/SN853564_zpsbb17b4d1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on April 29, 2013, 02:45:13 PM

no one said a UBERTI is junk, but I prefer one original piece like the one below.....


(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/DSCF5777.jpg) (http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/DSCF5777.jpg.html)

to a "collection" of italian replicas. (note, some replicas a are becoming collectable, but not  exactly the italian)

you are entitled to your opinion, like I am to mine. I cant give you advices on shootings coyotes, but I know what works better for me in the accuracy aspect in the shooting range, and UBERTI is not the best option, specially the older models.

the US finish is around 250 dollars more expensive in a CIMARRON, so the gun would be around 650/750/800 brand new, if I am not wrong.

you can buy a brand new COLT for 500  or 600 dollars more, or just a used one for less than 1k dollars. In my case, I go crazy for used ones, but I have to buy new ones as there are not many used ones here.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Blair on April 29, 2013, 03:48:05 PM
pretrial person,

A 5 shot DA Adams revolver is not quite the same thing as a 6 shot SA Colt revolver, now is it?
This does not mean you don't have a very nice revolver in your collection. I just means there is little to compare.
  Blair
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on April 29, 2013, 04:49:01 PM
pretrial person,

A 5 shot DA Adams revolver is not quite the same thing as a 6 shot SA Colt revolver, now is it?
This does not mean you don't have a very nice revolver in your collection. I just means there is little to compare.
  Blair

well, in fact, the gun is not mine. It is  a friend´s.

all my Colts are modern, third generation.

but this is the point:

I prefer  investing my money in an original piece or a collectable replica,  even if  the collection is limited to only one pieze or a couple , to spending that same amount of money  in a large collection of italian replicas, that lack any sex appeal for me.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Blair on April 29, 2013, 05:27:55 PM
petinal person,

Please provide documentation for what you are posting. (You have heard this before)
Supply information on your own firearms, or at the very least, let us all know what you have depicted is not of your own. Yours, or someone else's?
This information you offer is not specific to this thread!
Do you not understand this concept yet?
  Blair
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on April 29, 2013, 06:50:21 PM
Quote
no one said a UBERTI is junk,

Read it again, I said "junk by comparison"

Second, going by your logic....
Quote
I prefer  investing my money in an original piece or a collectable replica,  even if  the collection is limited to only one pieze or a couple , to spending that same amount of money  in a large collection of italian replicas

.....the twelve Ubertis in the group photo, would translate to 3-4 Colts. Yeah, much better use of the same money. Also, Colt doesn't make five of the models in that pic. You buy a Colt, you're limited to the model 1873. That's it. There was more to the history  of the "old west" era than the almighty Colt.

Quote
that lack any sex appeal for me.
Sex appeal is what I look for in a woman, not a gun. ;)
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on April 30, 2013, 09:51:49 AM
petinal person,

Please provide documentation for what you are posting. (You have heard this before)
Supply information on your own firearms, or at the very least, let us all know what you have depicted is not of your own. Yours, or someone else's?
This information you offer is not specific to this thread!
Do you not understand this concept yet?
  Blair

I am suppling info based on my own firearms, and  the experiences and troubles I have experienced with 3 brands:

UBERTI
COLT
TAURUS

let me add Armi San Marco, but I sold the gun long ago.



(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/044-3-1-1.jpg) (http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/044-3-1-1.jpg.html)

the ones above  are the personal firearms I currently own of the SAA type:

 3 COLTS, 1978 (the factory engraved one), 2007 made 38 sp, 2010 made 44/40,  1 Taurus  Gaucho 45 colt (which was a very accurate revolver, far more than the UBERTI), and one Uberti 45 colt.  

all the best


Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: TwoWalks Baldridge on May 01, 2013, 09:31:39 AM
My Grandfather bought a Colt single action when he was a young man.  That Colt is still around today.  I bought a Uberti Cattleman 2 years ago and it is still around today.

My Uberti has had more rounds shot through it in its two years of life than my Grandfather colt has had in over 100 years.

It is highly possible that a new Colt will out last a new Uberti, being used equally. But the difference in cost means I can buy 3 Uberti or Pietta's with change left over for ammo, if it is ever available again.

These Uberti's and Pietta's might not last 100 years or even 60 years, but they dang well will last as long as me.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Grenadier on May 01, 2013, 12:17:57 PM
I am more interested in the Quality, Durability and Authenticity of the redhead on that calendar!  :P
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: TwoWalks Baldridge on May 01, 2013, 04:17:09 PM
I am more interested in the Quality, Durability and Authenticity of the redhead on that calendar!  :P

Single?
Likes old men?
Phone number?

Now there would be some useful information.   ;D
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 02, 2013, 10:01:31 AM
My Grandfather bought a Colt single action when he was a young man.  That Colt is still around today.  I bought a Uberti Cattleman 2 years ago and it is still around today.

My Uberti has had more rounds shot through it in its two years of life than my Grandfather colt has had in over 100 years.

It is highly possible that a new Colt will out last a new Uberti, being used equally. But the difference in cost means I can buy 3 Uberti or Pietta's with change left over for ammo, if it is ever available again.

These Uberti's and Pietta's might not last 100 years or even 60 years, but they dang well will last as long as me.

I agree, but I will probably place number 1, or 2, or 3, or 4th in the next accuracy match with my COLT.... however, with Uberti, I will place 4 or maybe 5th for sure. An excellent revolver can make the difference between winning or not and thats where you see why you paid more.  This rule does not apply to people shooting at 10 yards, or 7.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks on May 02, 2013, 11:24:03 PM
Well- I have read all the posts... Colts vs the Uberti's and the Piettas... something said that he gets better accuracy with a colt at 25 yards versus the Uberti which has different sized chambers... and blah blah blah.. Don't get it folks.  To each his own... I shoot Uberti's... and have shot them at 50 yard targets and they do just fine.  I see folks shooting stages with Colts at targets 7 or so feet away and they miss the target the same as others shooting something that is not a colt.  What is the point? USFA went out of business because they were not competitive or they had bad management?? The USFA was just another brand name... and the product was way overprised... maybe a 100 years from now... the USFA might be worth something? In this sport does it mean IF I don't shoot a Colt, I am not period correct?  If that is the case, then we have a lot of shooters who missed the boat... as they shoot Ruger's. Since cars were mentioned... I can recall a man who made a car called the DeLoran... that dog did not hunt either. Not all cowboys in the 19th century carried Colts... guns are guns and they are all designed to do ONE THING.... KILL ! I must have missed something in the starting of this thread or post... Personally I like the Colt... I only have one, it is a low serial number for Colts 125 Anniversary gun.  But as someone said... I can buy a lot of good looking & good shooting Uberti's for the price of two colts... and the colts will not do anything that my Uberti's won't.  Nuff said.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Major 2 on May 03, 2013, 06:16:29 AM
There will always be Ford VS Chevy or Ferrari VS Lamborghini even Pietta VS Uberti and the "Taste Great VS Less Filling" crowd..

A point I'd make, and may be lost on many ....

Colts are wonderful , they conjure an image, they are the brand, and you must pay the price....
 you have to ask yourself do I buy a current production (or collect more ) and put it/them away in the box never to be shot ... who will truly benefit . Was it a investment ? and for whom, my heirs ?
Or do I shoot them and risk $$$  :-\
A current production 3rd. Gen  NIB, left in the box bought last year will not be more valuable , than another NIB  3 Gen. bought today nor will it be in our lifetime.

I'd choose to shoot ....posterity is fine and all that, but my guns are bought to shoot  :)
I care little for the profit someone may enjoy... down the road so to speak.









Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 03, 2013, 10:31:10 AM
Well- I have read all the posts... Colts vs the Uberti's and the Piettas... something said that he gets better accuracy with a colt at 25 yards versus the Uberti which has different sized chambers... and blah blah blah.. Don't get it folks.  To each his own... I shoot Uberti's... and have shot them at 50 yard targets and they do just fine.  I see folks shooting stages with Colts at targets 7 or so feet away and they miss the target the same as others shooting something that is not a colt.  What is the point? USFA went out of business because they were not competitive or they had bad management?? The USFA was just another brand name... and the product was way overprised... maybe a 100 years from now... the USFA might be worth something? In this sport does it mean IF I don't shoot a Colt, I am not period correct?  If that is the case, then we have a lot of shooters who missed the boat... as they shoot Ruger's. Since cars were mentioned... I can recall a man who made a car called the DeLoran... that dog did not hunt either. Not all cowboys in the 19th century carried Colts... guns are guns and they are all designed to do ONE THING.... KILL ! I must have missed something in the starting of this thread or post... Personally I like the Colt... I only have one, it is a low serial number for Colts 125 Anniversary gun.  But as someone said... I can buy a lot of good looking & good shooting Uberti's for the price of two colts... and the colts will not do anything that my Uberti's won't.  Nuff said.

  I said 25 meters, not yards. It would be advisable to compete in such hard matches and live that experience before giving advice.

in fact, Ubertis gave many troubles using lead here to get top accuracy at 25 meters and many shooters decided to use ball, instead of bullets, in their reloadings, as that avoided leading and had great accuracy.

others chose Colts just chose other brands over Uberti, and what I say about accuracy is only with BP and lead. Ubertis are fine with smokeless.

if  someone is a bad shooter, if doesnt matter what he/she shoots...be it a SIG P210 or a Keltec....however, a very accurate revolver will  allways help you to improve as a shooter.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on May 03, 2013, 08:28:55 PM
That is the absolute total opposite of what I have experienced with Uberti revolvers. I have a couple that tend to get some leading around the forcing cone area with smokeless but not with BP.

If anything they are more accurate with black powder loads with no leading and cleaning just takes a couple swabs of moosemilk down the pipe followed by some clean patches.

My Uberti's LOVE black powder.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: MJN77 on May 04, 2013, 06:29:39 AM
Quote
My Uberti's LOVE black powder.

Mine too.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 04, 2013, 09:02:38 AM
That is the absolute total opposite of what I have experienced with Uberti revolvers. I have a couple that tend to get some leading around the forcing cone area with smokeless but not with BP.

If anything they are more accurate with black powder loads with no leading and cleaning just takes a couple swabs of moosemilk down the pipe followed by some clean patches.

My Uberti's LOVE black powder.

 If you are getting leading with smokeless, that means that you are taking the bullet to high speed, so it leads or maybe your bullet is soft, and that can happen with smokless of BP..

Bp, in reality,  is just part of the  problem, the main problem is the bullet that you must use in BP, hard cast with no shoulder, picket bullet of the period type.

the leading is not only in the forcing cone, but in all the barrel.

but as a matter of fact, I have avoided that problem, just by casting a much harder bullet, and choosing one with  very deep grooves.

what I have not changed is the innacuracy, really mediocre, and inconsistent with such loads. Sometimes good, and sometimes a disaster. Maybe later Ubertis have improved, but for years they proofed me they are not trustworthy in the accuracy aspect.

if you can share targets, shot one hand, at 25 meters, and share BP load, and bullet type,  number of shots before getting leaded the barrel, I would appreciate it.

targets at 7 yards, or 12, are not valid. Even a philippine revolver is accurate at such distances.



one day, one hand standing,  25 meters,  28 grains of 2F,  around 220 grains bullet (my memory is failing now).

URL=http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/001-16.jpg.html](http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/001-16.jpg)[/URL]


same load, just any other day

(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/002-11.jpg) (http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/002-11.jpg.html)


allways some fliers, of course


another day


URL=http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/DSCF5895_zps72b36490-1.jpg.html](http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/DSCF5895_zps72b36490-1.jpg)[/URL]

I have tried 250 grains, but the gun seems more accurate with lighter bullets at powerful BP loads.




Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on May 04, 2013, 10:29:44 AM
If you are getting leading with smokeless, that means that you are taking the bullet to high speed, so it leads or maybe your bullet is soft, and that can happen with smokless of BP..

Bp, in reality,  is just part of the  problem, the main problem is the bullet that you must use in BP, hard cast with no shoulder, picket bullet of the period type.

the leading is not only in the forcing cone, but in all the barrel.

but as a matter of fact, I have avoided that problem, just by casting a much harder bullet, and choosing one with  very deep grooves.

what I have not changed is the innacuracy, really mediocre, and inconsistent with such loads. Sometimes good, and sometimes a disaster. Maybe later Ubertis have improved, but for years they proofed me they are not trustworthy in the accuracy aspect.

if you can share targets, shot one hand, at 25 meters, and share BP load, and bullet type,  number of shots before getting leaded the barrel, I would appreciate it.

targets at 7 yards, or 12, are not valid. Even a philippine revolver is accurate at such distances.



one day, one hand standing,  25 meters,  28 grains of 2F,  around 220 grains bullet (my memory is failing now).

URL=http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/001-16.jpg.html](http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/001-16.jpg)[/URL]


same load, just any other day

(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/002-11.jpg) (http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/002-11.jpg.html)


allways some fliers, of course


another day


URL=http://s949.photobucket.com/user/cesargijon/media/DSCF5895_zps72b36490-1.jpg.html](http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad339/cesargijon/DSCF5895_zps72b36490-1.jpg)[/URL]

I have tried 250 grains, but the gun seems more accurate with lighter bullets at powerful BP loads.





My experience is total opposite again of what you are saying.

My smokeless loads run at only 680 and the BP loads are much higher. Also the smokeless loads lead worse with the harder bullets.

The leading is only in the forcing cone and no where else down the barrel.

I have not experienced any leading when shooting BP.





Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: griswold on May 04, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
I use to have , wish I still did, both a Uberti 7.5" 44-40 SSA and a 3rd generation 7.5" Colt, also in 44-40.
I worked more with the Italian stalion (as I fondly called it), had the barrel tweeked to center the hits, shot at 6 oclock and I finally settled on using 5744 of 17 grains with a 205 gn flat nose. Was a very accurate weapon out to the distance of our shooting arena.....25 meters.

My 3rd gen Colt needed a lot of machining on the recoil shield as the rounds would drag on the left side and lock up the cylinder.......got that fixed and it shot well..........however, I never worked with it as much as the Uberti.

The main reasons I bought the Colt was because I just wanted a Colt and because I had a Win. 92 44-40 and the two just went together in my mind.

But the Uberti got the most use. It was a tad lighter as well...........not sure why, as it had a plated brass grip frame.

Griswold
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 04, 2013, 04:05:32 PM
a BP load of 28 grains is a powerful load.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on May 04, 2013, 05:25:29 PM
a BP load of 28 grains is a powerful load.



What? That is a reduced load.

My normal 45 colt and 44 wcf loads are 36 grains. I've recently started shooting Schofield brass to reduce the load to around 26 grains.

Original 45 and 44 loads were 40 grains.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Thomas (Tom) Horn aka James Hicks on May 04, 2013, 08:12:17 PM
Retrinal-

Your quote "  I said 25 meters, not yards. It would be advisable to compete in such hard matches and live that experience before giving advice."

If you read what I said... I shoot the Uberti's at 50 yards... that is further out than your 25 meters... (25 meters =27 yards) and... I have no problem with accuracy. I shoot smokeless and I do not have a leading problem with the Uberti's which are Custer model's 7.5". It appears you do not like Uberti's, tis ok, to each his own.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 04, 2013, 09:01:13 PM

I truly thought this thread wad truly dead.  And right after we find out some of the specifications of the Redhead on the calendar, it should be! ;D
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 06, 2013, 09:51:05 AM
we can allways learn from each other here.

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Blair on May 06, 2013, 10:32:57 AM
Coffinmaker,

Your chances of getting your revolver (by any manufacture) to reload it's own ammo, are better, than getting the specs on the Redhead on that calendar.  ;)

Still, one can always hope?
  Blair
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 06, 2013, 01:18:18 PM

Sad sigh ???
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 06, 2013, 01:42:13 PM
I truly thought this thread wad truly dead.  And right after we find out some of the specifications of the Redhead on the calendar, it should be! ;D

she was miss POLAND a few  years ago and  she posed for FB Radom (Fabryka Broni) (www. fabrykabroni.pl) the makers of the traditional Radom Pistol in Radom, Poland.

 I got that Poster at their stand in the  2012 Shot Show. Polish women are very attractive in general, like all Slavic Women..
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on May 06, 2013, 03:18:49 PM
I'm curious why all the guns in the photo don't have grips on them.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Grenadier on May 06, 2013, 03:20:55 PM
What guns?  ;)
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: cal44walker on May 06, 2013, 05:43:38 PM
They banned grips in Spain to reduce crime.......
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Major 2 on May 06, 2013, 06:25:56 PM
 ;D   
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 06, 2013, 11:37:29 PM

Angelika Jakubowska - Miss Poland 2009  :P
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 07, 2013, 08:51:26 AM
I'm curious why all the guns in the photo don't have grips on them.

I live in a very wet town, and I preserve my guns without grips on to prevent moisture accumulation between grips and steel, that  more sooner than later leads to rusting.

in the case of some old SWs, and some old military revolvers, I sadly discovered that the wood was probably cured with salt or whatever, so as a careful collector, I better be careful.

I didnt dissambled the Nagant´s grips to avoid scratching or damaging the screws, that are really tight. It is an old revovler, made in 1912, pre communistj zarist Tula markings.  
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Gen Lew Wallace on May 07, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
Well, I can say that after three matches; the last of which was the state championship this past weekend, I like my Cimarron Pietta 7th Cav revolvers.  They have an action job by Cody Conagher and shoot real smooth.  I have never beheld the Uberti version of this gun so I cannot do a comparison.  I just wanted to say that I like the ones I have.   :D
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Grenadier on May 07, 2013, 09:21:32 AM
Petrinal, do you suppose that Nagant revolver migrated to Spain around 1935 or 36? I have a nice 1915 Mosin-Nagant that spent some time in Spain courtesy of the U.S.S.R.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: petrinal on May 07, 2013, 09:36:29 AM
as a matter of fact, I bought it from a collector in GERMANY, thought you are right, in the Spanish Civil War many of the these revolvers came here (via USSR or via republican agents buying old fashioned guns at atonishing high prices in the international market)

.  I have no idea how the gun ended in GERMANY, but given the german law for collectors, that is very adequate, and allows even some full auto guns collecting, it might probably have ended in Germany as a war trophy of a german soldier or who knows until some collector rescued it. It has no german importer markings or german bank proof house markings.

this one is interesting for being made under the zarist regime. It is also a troop´s model, in other words, it is single action only, no DA...and they seem to be more scarce than the DA models, for officer, or the ever present communist models.

All this revolvers, a bit underrated, have a phenomenal accuracy and the round is powerful, or at least, is very  fast.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Grenadier on May 07, 2013, 12:44:38 PM
If it came from Germany, then I would tend to believe it was a "capture" from the First World War. Being that the Czarist markings are still intact, it suggests that the Soviets never handled it. You are lucky with owning it, I would love to have an original Imperial Russian Nagant revolver in my collection.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on May 08, 2013, 12:07:15 AM

ANGELIKA  ::). Guns ????
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: RRio on May 12, 2013, 12:48:19 AM
$429 plus tax. What's not to like?

(http://images59.fotki.com/v111/photos/0/1747790/9437764/005-vi.jpg)
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: oldironguts on September 21, 2013, 08:06:34 PM
Had Colts, Uberti's and Pietta"s would buy any of them again.  All good guns.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Gripmaker on January 11, 2014, 04:20:03 PM
This has been an interesting read after going through it all. I have an Uberti (1993) and a Pietta GW II(2010) and they are both superb firearms and extremely accurate when shot with a load that is tailored to each gun. Reliability has proven to be excellent with a few thousand rounds through each with full power (36 gr. Swiss) BP loads and some quite stout smokeless loads under heavy bullets. Both are chambered for 44 WCF with .429 barrels. I have also owned Colts that were outshined by both of these(go figure). I also do alot of "longrange" shooting with handguns, ie out to 500 yds and been quite successful at it. NOW, having said all of that (which does not impress me at all and hopefully neither does it you), none of these brands can hold a candle and pale in comparison to my working gun which is a J.P. Sauer .44 mag made in the early 70's and cost me less than a Colt or Ruger. It is more precisely made, stronger, much more accurate and the action from the factory is smoother than either a Janis, Turnbull or Munden worked action (as Eddie Janis told me  13 yrs ago). I can shoot .44 Russian, .44 Colt, .44 Spl, .44 Mag and with another cylinder, .44 WCF in this gun with no leading (think velocity and BHN). I have a smokeless load that will shoot to the same point of impact at 100 yds with either a 200gr. cowboy bullet or a Keith SWC in 265 gr. (think velocity, trajectory and especially practice).

As I said, I read this entire thread with great interest and IMO, buy what trips your trigger and enjoy it. Don't let anyone belittle your tastes in guns, women, hunting dogs or cars because they are just voicing their opinion or experiences which are subject to change. Enjoy yourselves, and if you just have to flame this post, go ahead as I can provide either paper, witnesses or exhibit exactly what has been posted (but you will have to call me: 417-359-8880). God Bless and shoot safe.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Rye Miles on January 13, 2014, 07:26:18 AM
I have a pair of Taylor's Smoke Wagons in .44-40 and I shoot only BP. These have been great guns for the last 5 years. I would not hesitate to buy another pair. I have a Colt, 2 Uberti Cattleman and an older EMF that I use as back-ups to my Smoke Wagons.

Have you skinned your smoke wagon lately?  :-\Rye
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Navy Six on February 06, 2014, 05:11:31 PM
I am puzzled by the comments regarding Ubertis not shooting lead bullets and black powder well. Restricting my comments to cartridge guns, mine shoot fine. Admittedly, six samples are not an exhaustive evaluation, but they are a nice cross-section.
They are:
A pair of  4 3/4" 38-357
A pair of 4 3/4" 44-40 Bisleys
A pair of 7 1/2" 38-40
These guns have never seen anything but lead and blackpowder. No leading and all shoot very close to point of aim. Sorry, I can't show you pictures of group sizes as I haven't had them on paper in a while.
I also agree with a previous comment about the variety of guns made by Uberti. Doubt I would be shooting a pair of Bisleys if not for Uberti. I currently have 10 Colts to compare these Ubertis to. All get shot in cowboy matches and its just a matter of which calibers I feel like shooting that day. I love them all.   Navy Six
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on February 25, 2014, 06:43:28 PM
I have found all my Uberti guns to shoot well with cast or swaged lead bullets with smokeless and BP loads.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on February 03, 2017, 12:21:39 PM
Lately has Pietta put back the patent dates back on their frames?
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Abilene on February 03, 2017, 04:23:29 PM
Lately has Pietta put back the patent dates back on their frames?

They have been putting them on their guns for Cimarron for several years.  I do not know if they put them back on all their other lines (GW II, Traditions, etc)
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on February 04, 2017, 10:37:01 AM
This has been an interesting read after going through it all. I have an Uberti (1993) and a Pietta GW II(2010) and they are both superb firearms and extremely accurate when shot with a load that is tailored to each gun. Reliability has proven to be excellent with a few thousand rounds through each with full power (36 gr. Swiss) BP loads and some quite stout smokeless loads under heavy bullets. Both are chambered for 44 WCF with .429 barrels. I have also owned Colts that were outshined by both of these(go figure). I also do alot of "longrange" shooting with handguns, ie out to 500 yds and been quite successful at it. NOW, having said all of that (which does not impress me at all and hopefully neither does it you), none of these brands can hold a candle and pale in comparison to my working gun which is a J.P. Sauer .44 mag made in the early 70's and cost me less than a Colt or Ruger. It is more precisely made, stronger, much more accurate and the action from the factory is smoother than either a Janis, Turnbull or Munden worked action (as Eddie Janis told me  13 yrs ago). I can shoot .44 Russian, .44 Colt, .44 Spl, .44 Mag and with another cylinder, .44 WCF in this gun with no leading (think velocity and BHN). I have a smokeless load that will shoot to the same point of impact at 100 yds with either a 200gr. cowboy bullet or a Keith SWC in 265 gr. (think velocity, trajectory and especially practice).

As I said, I read this entire thread with great interest and IMO, buy what trips your trigger and enjoy it. Don't let anyone belittle your tastes in guns, women, hunting dogs or cars because they are just voicing their opinion or experiences which are subject to change. Enjoy yourselves, and if you just have to flame this post, go ahead as I can provide either paper, witnesses or exhibit exactly what has been posted (but you will have to call me: 417-359-8880). God Bless and shoot safe.



  Gripmaker you are spot-on regarding those German-made Hawes revolvers. I've had three of them pass through my hands and all of them were superbly crafted. Cocking one of them reminded me of locking my safe; once the hammer was drawn back, everything locked up tight. All of mine have been very accurate. If they had made one with a 4 3/4" barrel I'd own it! In fact it's occurred to me to buy another and have a good 'smith cut the original 6 1/2" barrel back to 4 3/4" and reset the sight.

 CHT
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: sfc rick on April 09, 2017, 08:43:05 AM
My take on Colt or Clones is...Only FOOLS still think on that level. Being that you don't here about Colt 1911's being better than Singers or Ithaca's or what not. I tend to think that they are all Single Action's and as long as they are manufactured we all benefit. The SAA's today are better in every aspect of manufacturing and metallurgy as any before Colt or whatever.

I have no horse in this race... but I find the premise of it all too funny.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 25, 2017, 04:44:43 PM
After 25 years shooting and visiting museums and observing many original and clone revolvers, I have no doubt that the original Colt revolvers were much better made, by better professionals and gunsmiths, were better finished and were more accurate than the italian clones.
 
In the  Museum of Connecticut History I had the opportunity to observe many original Colts and there is no possible  comparison in finish to the clones.
Heat or rust blueing versus mediocre alkaline blueing......real case hardening versus fake one....match barrels with deep rifling versus shallow riflings ......forged small parts like hammers and triggers versus invesment casting parts .

The same applies to Winchesters  or Remingtons..or Sharps...or European revolvers or rifles....the originals, in general, shoot BP better if well preserved and are more beautifully finished.

Also, most  World champions who compete in breechloading and MLAIC matches agree that the original guns made by our ancestors are superior. Usually, it takes them more time and effort to get top results with a replica than with an original.


Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: 45 Dragoon on April 25, 2017, 06:31:48 PM
From the machining I've seen in the 1st gen models of open tops I've had the pleasure and privilege to observe/work on, I'd say the Italians are light years ahead.  The hardening of action parts can still be done, re finishing to ones liking can be done, etc, etc.

If enough folks would/could pay $1,800-2,000 for a nice, hand fitted S.A., thats what you'd see, but they won't/can't.  Italians need money, we want Revolvers, they do what they can and we fix to suit as needed. Different times, different circumstances. We aren't the "China" of the world anymore. We had cheap labor at one time, not anymore. We had the opportunity and inventiveness once but too many (and big brother) have their hand out for a piece of the "too little pie".  Too many Regs. that snuff out reasons to " go for it" today.  So we buy what we can and fix it to our need. 
  I'll say, you can make an Italian copy every bit as good and better than the first gens. After all, Colt still can't/won't offer a S.A.A. in .44 mag. Uberti has been doing it for some time .  .  .  .  . 

 It's not the will or the want or the know-how, it's the ability more than anything.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 25, 2017, 07:22:52 PM
They  can replicate a perfect clone  as you said, but  it will cost more. The finish will cost more...the forged parts will cost more....making a deeper rifling will cost more...who is going to pay 1500 dollars for a Italian copy with no collector value?

In short, the originals are  allaways better.. They cant replicate them with original quality....no market. You get what you pay for when you buy Uberti and Pietta.

This is why I prefer to buy 1 original, and spend 2000 dollars, to buying 3 clones.

By the way, the Italians are raising prices...Pedersoli are becoming quite expensive .and Uberti long arms too.

Anyway, a Italian clone can be improved with better finish and fitting by the expert...but not their rifling, which in general and with exceptions like Pedersoli, , is  quite mediocre.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: 45 Dragoon on April 25, 2017, 08:48:20 PM
Yap, but in all honesty, your original needs tuning (assuming it's "just" a factory offering) and some other things to be its potential best. Of course, that's if it's a shooter .  .  .  .   

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 26, 2017, 03:54:34 AM
If it is a original revolver and a shooter, the gun can be tuned only to very limited  degree..according to the international competition rules in MLAIC and breechloading matches. I have seen guns rejected for installing wider grips than the factory standard, for instance, and a desperate shooter filing the grips on site to be allowed to compete in that match.

The guns must go through a strict check by the officers  before the competition starts to make sure it is in original condition....just good sights, a good bore, a tuned trigger and a stiff hammer spring ( just the opposite to what most tuners do) to make the hammer fly fast, and a ponderate load, is what most originals need to beat many modern clones in the accuracy aspect. Originals in general don't need tuning as they came from factory...they  may need repair or being restored, but not tuning.

I have seen old Belgian, Vasque, and French revolvers beat modern Uberti Schofields, and old Remingtons beat  modern Piettas as well  as old Winchester 92s  and Tigres beat modern  Rossis, and  Spanish Oviedo factory Winchester 73s copies made in 1880 beat Ubertis made in the 2000s.

The Italians boss the market and they do what they want.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: 45 Dragoon on April 26, 2017, 06:59:27 AM
Oh, competition guns .  .  .  .  .    I was unaware of that being part of the subject at hand. Of course, if there are limited mods allowed for Comp reasons, you can only "improve" or "enhance" the reliability/life of the action by so much. I was speaking as a general rule, all S.A.s can be improved over the factory offering.

Of course, original revolvers can be found that are extremely accurate. Then again, original revolvers were expensive and to compare them (age isn't/shouldn't be a factor, they don't know .  .  .  ) to revolvers made in large quantity for mass markets at a rather inexpensive price is a little bit of a stretch. As I posted, even with the materials these Piettas and Uberti's are made with, they can be made into a very nice working revolver (surely you know about the Uberti supplied first offerings of the now defunct USFA?) .  In another thread, I reiterated my daily routine of fanning my carry gun, which is an Uberti product (an El Patron Competition), at least 50 cycles for the past 2 1/2 yrs. This isn't how I treat all my revolvers, but it is a test for endurance, and how well "designed wear patterns" add to the life of the respective parts. This El Patron has had zero failures so far. I seriously doubt any "out of the box" S.A. copy  (including an original S.A.A.)  could do the same.



 BTW, I have a Santa Barbara Remington copy that has really bad bore/chamber misalignment (vertically) but I won't go on about how terrible and inferior they are .  .  .  .  

Mi!e
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks



Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on April 26, 2017, 10:23:07 AM
Before I sign off from this futile exercise in Necromancy ........ I found long ago, attempting to explain reality to a card carrying "COLTISTA" to be a complete waste of effort.   They (the COLTISTAS) simply refuse to accept that Colt isn't and Wasn't the finest thing ever manufactured on the planet.

Waste of breath Mike.

Oh, and I should mention, it is seldom if ever the "instrument" that wins a competition.  Any competition.  It is ALWAYS the skilled person wielding the instrument.

Coffinmaker
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: 45 Dragoon on April 26, 2017, 11:33:01 AM
I think you are right Mike. Thanks.

And, definitely right about the skilled marksman thing!


Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 26, 2017, 08:32:22 PM
Sometimes we forget that the SAA was born as a military gun, not as a sporting gun.

I' ll save words, I won't be understood as I am a purist.

Let me remind  here that we are talking about Quality, Durability and ........Authenticity....yes...Authenticity....and some  of the latest fashions in SAAs...have very little of Authenticity...........springs, grips, hammers, finishes...holsters...ammo...targets...distances...

If someone wants authenticity at a fair price,  both Uberti and Pietta will serve well, but I would buy a standard model and would avoid modification and replacements in mainsprings or hammer shape or bird or Colt Army grips... to keep things as they were in the old times. Just a nice trigger job would suffice if needed iwhen authenticity is a goal. Some polishing and oil stoning in moving parts is allways good too. I fully recommend leaving the task to a competent gunsmith specialized in SAAs. We'll save troubles, money and time.

They are very well made revolvers with mediocre barrels and inferior finishes compared to the originals, it is what I say. And some of their models are just plain invented, historically false. But it is a good excuse to sell more revolvers...just to invent revolvers that never existed.




PD:

They obviously replaced the cilinder in your SB with an Italian one, that have bigger dimensions. The frame cut in SBs is huge, and allows putting a slightly bigger cilinder inside, doing a adjustments in the cylinder length, which are almost identical in all companies,

Santa Barbara was the largest military factory in Spain, making machine guns, cannons, and tanks (German Leopard 2E tank) as well as aircraft parts for Rolls Royce and General Dynamics,.working with NATO standards of quality.  It is the same factory that made the famous Mauser Oviedo rifles.

Several World MLAIC championships were won wiith those guns, being a very admired  revolver in France by the way. All these revolvers had  to go through the strict Eibar proof house test and inspection before  being allowed to be legally sold. They were shipped with a document from the spanish government testifying that the gun had passed the test and were safe to shoot.

Almost the same with all Italian guns...they must strictly  be tested before being aproved for sale......so a revolver with vertical misalignment of modern  European manufacture is a revolver that has been altered/ fitted with  a non original factory cylinder by unscrupulous individuals. The gun has just a cilinder that does not belong to the gun....and easy to spot alteration.

Any photo would be welcomed.
.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 29, 2017, 05:26:14 AM
Let me add that a perfect clone will not sell well...very few people today in the USA are interested in a perfect clone, except purists, marksmen and collectors, which are a minority.

People today don't demand a revolver conceived for the military and for serious marksmanship. It would not be the most adequate pistol for CAS .....the actions would be harder because in the old times they wanted a fast and powerful hammer fall for reliability and accuracy...their life in combat depended on it...not on speed......sights would be smaller to gain accuracy  at longer distances and conceived to shoot one handed....the rifling much deeper and not allways the best for smokeless powder...

And the guns much more expensive, probably. To drill a good barrel costs  more money. To finish a gun like they did in the old times can double the sale price....as Turn Bull and his excellent recreation finishes shows..who, by the way, did Colt's case hardenings  or still does,
 

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 29, 2017, 08:02:10 AM
Let me add that a perfect clone will not sell well...very few people today in the USA are interested in a perfect clone, except purists, marksmen and collectors, which are a minority.

People today don't demand a revolver conceived for the military and for serious marksmanship. It would not be the most adequate pistol for CAS .....the actions would be harder because in the old times they wanted a fast and powerful hammer fall for reliability and accuracy...their life in combat depended on it...not on speed......sights would be smaller to gain accuracy  at longer distances and conceived to shoot one handed....the rifling much deeper and not allways the best for smokeless powder...

And the guns much more expensive, probably. To drill a good barrel costs  more money. To finish a gun like they did in the old times can double the sale price....as Turn Bull and his excellent recreation finishes shows..who, by the way, did Colt's case hardenings  or still does,
 



Good grief! Well since this is a CAS forum, blah blah blah blah blah. And you can get the reproductions with the same case coloring finishes you speak of. It costs 275 bucks to have the frame and hammer case color hardened and Colt doesn't even do the hammer, that's a long way from doubling the price and a longer way from the four times cost Colt charges.

Look, I currently have and have owned plenty of both, Colts and Cimarrons and I've sand bagged the guns and can't tell any overall difference in performance. There are good ones, better ones and once and a while bad ones of both. Yes the Colts are better quality materials and a few little features but not three or four times the cost worth. Especially with todays machining capability cutting labor cost. Colt will eventually go permanently bankrupt while everyone else continues to make there way producing Colts designs.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 29, 2017, 09:01:36 AM
I own Colts with case hardened hammers




A cased hammer or not is a custom shop option.
 
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 29, 2017, 02:54:06 PM

A cased hammer or not is a custom shop option.
 

I guess so since ALL Colt SAA's are a custom shop item. What's that another 2-300 from Colt for an additional 2-30 dollars worth of work?
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on April 29, 2017, 05:28:15 PM
Hand made in the USA by American workers+  beautiful+ excellent barrel+good investment+ they dont make many and latest models are near perfection in mechanisms and finish+ they are the original and not a clone= expensive.

Made in Italy by robots+ 1000 dollars a month wages+ mediocre barrels+  no collector interest+ nicely made+ sell a lot of them+ dealers earn very little in them= affordable .
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on April 30, 2017, 04:09:48 PM
Hand made in the USA by American workers+  beautiful+ excellent barrel+good investment+ they dont make many and latest models are near perfection in mechanisms and finish+ they are the original and not a clone= expensive.

Made in Italy by robots+ 1000 dollars a month wages+ mediocre barrels+  no collector interest+ nicely made+ sell a lot of them+ dealers earn very little in them= affordable .

 Your logic is a little difficult for me to follow.

 You repeatedly refer to "original" Colt SA's being of superior quality. Which originals? Quality in what areas? I own three 1st Generation Colt's dating from 1902 to 1906, and while they're very well fitted, the quality of the metal and durability of the finish is nowhere near that of the Italian revolvers simply because technology in that area has grown by leaps and bounds. All of my old Colt's have pitted barrels and most of the finish is gone because finishes back then weren't nearly as durable and the metal was softer. Prettier, yes, better, no. Too, because of the softer metals, they tend to be looser and one of my Bisley's has quite a bit of end-shake.

  I've never owned a 2nd Generation, but it's my understanding that those produced from their beginnings in the '50's to the mid-'60's are pretty much the pinnacle of quality.

  I've had two new 3rd Generation Colt's pass through my hands and never even bothered firing them before I sold them. Beautiful by any mans standards, but they were grossly over-sprung, had actions that felt as though they'd been dunked in little Timmy's sand box, and cylinder throats whose measurements couldn't possibly provide any more than informal plinking accuracy.

  Yes, I'm sure much of the Italian revolvers production is done with CNC machinery. But unlike humans who have bad days, come to work hungover, have a fight with their spouses as they were leaving for work, etc., automated machineries production quality is the same no matter what. Program it correctly, and it will spit out good parts faster and more accurately than the human hand.

  What makes you think the barrels produced by the Italians are mediocre? Have you fired for accuracy any of these revolvers? I have, extensively, and have been extremely pleased with them:

 (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Cimarron%20Model%20P-red_zps6yq3fxbi.jpg) (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Cimarron%20Model%20P-red_zps6yq3fxbi.jpg.html)

 (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/Bisley%2050%20yds._zpsirhh2d4p.jpg) (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/Bisley%2050%20yds._zpsirhh2d4p.jpg.html)

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/55100yds-ed_zps13d02494.jpg) (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/55100yds-ed_zps13d02494.jpg.html)

(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Single%20Actions/5_zpsdf17a411.jpg) (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Single%20Actions/5_zpsdf17a411.jpg.html)

  Judging from the photos of your Colt's and your remark regarding the smaller sights for long range shooting, I'd hazard a guess that you're more of a collector than a shooter, and that's fine. Were I only a collector and not a shooter, I'd certainly select Colt's over reproductions.

  CHT

 
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on May 14, 2017, 10:20:13 AM
Quality in manufacturing tolerances, for instance :


A measurement in my Colt's recently made  revolver's chambers indicate  around 11,585 mm, 456", with virtually zero variations in all chambers, larger in diameter than first gen. Revolvers, but drilled with Swiss precision.
 
By contrast, my Uberti Cattleman, with larger dimensions, 11,62 mm, presents important variations among the different chambers...11,62 mm, 11,64, 11,65, 11,67 that shows a less refined manufacture.

Not in vane Colt gained a reputation as a precision machining company in their time.

About finishes, a good heat blueing finish is normally not as durable as an alkaline finish  but it is more beautiful if well done. I have done it in the past. It takes time. It is expensive.

For example, this Lefacheux revolver is  160 years old, and still has its original heat blueing finish applied in the Oviedo factory whe it was made.
The photo does not show the beauty and perfection of this finish that surpasses alakaline Italian blueings.


(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag148/provo2000/Revolvers/IMG_0051_zpsnef3jtci.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/provo2000/media/Revolvers/IMG_0051_zpsnef3jtci.jpg.html)


I am both, a collector and a shooter, qualified as first class pistol shooter in Int. Standar pistol and second class shooter in Int. Centerfire, ISSF.


(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag148/provo2000/Revolvers/IMG_1117_zps2rrqoilg.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/provo2000/media/Revolvers/IMG_1117_zps2rrqoilg.jpg.html)



About accuracy, I have shot extensively with ASM, Uberti, and much less with Pietta. Of all them, the most critical in that aspect were the Ubertis. As a bullseye competitor, I  am used to shooting accurate guns.  So it is not a matter of shooting Ubertis extensively....but a matter of comparing the level of accuracy  achieved in the field in comparison with the level of ccuracy achieved with other revolvers, antique or new.

If the gun can't print holes in less than 1,5" at 25 meters, not yards, as this is the international distance for both ISSF and MLAIC, the gun is useless for me.

I have allways being beaten by shooters with original XIX century guns in competition. The original revolvers had excellent barrels.

So I label Italian revolvers, with exceptions like Perdersoli, , specially in lead ball and BP,, as mediocre revolvers in that aspect.

Just by comparison, this is a common Astra revolver, made over 30 years ago and much used and abused....it can print holes in around 1'25 " at 25 meters (28 yards) with an average powder  like Vectan and with average Lee cast bullets....with a good Lyman mold and Norma powders the gun would be able to print in 1" or less at 25 meters. Please note that there  are 3 holes in the same hole, shooting seated at 25 meters.

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag148/provo2000/Revolvers/IMG_1167_zpsjgamsmuw.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/provo2000/media/Revolvers/IMG_1167_zpsjgamsmuw.jpg.html)

For doing decent accuracy shooting, the gun must be able to group in 1,5 inches or less...as the size of the O ring in the Int. Pistol target is 2".

I need to develope a load for 50 meters...as in the accuracy aspect, a load that works well for 25 meters does not normally work so well for 50 and viceversa. I shot my last 3 rounds at 50 meters (56 yards) and I am not happy with the group at all.


(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag148/provo2000/Revolvers/IMG_1169_zpsgauqpdrf.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/provo2000/media/Revolvers/IMG_1169_zpsgauqpdrf.jpg.html)


This is a group achieved shooting standing, one unsupported hand, at 25 meters with a 100 years old Duque revolver, a basque copy, of good quality, with some mechanical variations, of a S&W MP. The previous 22 lr impacts made by unknown shooter...

It was the first time I used this revolver...with shows accuracy typical of a match gun.

(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag148/provo2000/Revolvers/IMG_1122_zpsop8zkrtp.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/provo2000/media/Revolvers/IMG_1122_zpsop8zkrtp.jpg.html)


(http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag148/provo2000/Revolvers/IMG_1120_zpspmzfvcni.jpg) (http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/provo2000/media/Revolvers/IMG_1120_zpspmzfvcni.jpg.html)


Most original revolvers were tack drivers. Most Italian replicas are not, and the shooting public is not demanding that, as I said...a tack driver needs a good barrel and stiff hammer springs...over sprung actions that today's shooter rejects, as few people compete in bullseye, and there is not much knowledge about it.







Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on May 14, 2017, 11:00:14 AM
    That's great that that your Colt's cylinder throats (You said chambers, but I think you meant throats since a 45 Colt chamber should measure around .486") are consistent in diameter, but at .456" they are roughly .004" over the SAAMI specifications/recommendation of .452". As I mentioned in my previous post, .456" is too large when the groove diameter of the barrel is going to be around .452". Evidently you cast/shoot your own bullets so surely you understand the principle of the cylinder throat needing to measure close to or slightly larger than the groove diameter of the barrel, don't you?

  Did you only measure the throats of one Uberti? I ask because I see a difference in quality in my old '90's production Uberti and those that were made in the last 10 years. The newer models are of very good quality and it's my understanding that very recent production Uberti's are by far the best yet ( See Brian Pearce's column in Handloader- April 2017)

 Your targets and shooting ability are quite impressive, but since the subject is quality and accuracy of Italian SA's vs. Colt SA's , I'm not sure why you are posting pictures of targets fired with various DA revolvers. How does your recent production Colt SA shoot with a standard cast bullet?

 Incidentally, I'm not a competitive shooter, rather a hunter. The Uberti fired groups pictured below, with the exception of those fired at 100 yds., were all fired from a seated, back rested position with the revolver rested on my knees. This is how I shoot at game when in the field, so it's also how I test loads and practice with my revolvers.

 CHT
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on May 14, 2017, 03:17:57 PM
Yes, Uberti has improved quality in the last years, .but not their barrels. Their market is not bullseye. Most users just want a decent revolver that works and Ubertis do work and very well for people not specially interested in competitive shooting. They  are made with good steel.

Yes, chambers throats. Both Colt and Taurus drill their chamber  throats around 11, 585 mm or 456"...the reason is chamber pressures and the very slim steel section under the bolt cut in the cilinder. A bigger chamber reduces pressures and the cylinders suffers less.
 Another problem is that some commercial loads come with 454" bullets, like some Hornady's cowboy action shooting loads.

That's the reason why they are not going back  to 452/453" like they did in the old times. Uberti, however, at least until very recently, is drilling chambers at a huge 11,62 mm or 458".... the result is many ruptured cases. A common problem in this brand including Schofields.

 I say, on the other hand, that their barrels have not improved because I have friends with brand new Ubertis. None of them specially accurate, but rather...average or below average in that aspect just by comparing with other pistols owned by fellow shooters...S&W... old Astras, Colts, old Llamas..Orbeas...old French revolvers...

That is why I show groups with the Astra and the Duque revolver...they are like twice as accurate as most Ubertis
 in my shooting club.

It is interesting that despite having huge chambers, Uberti have smaller bores than Colts, around 450", versus 451/52" in Colts. Some leading problems with certain bullets are probably due to that smaller bore in Ubertis, plus quite shallow riflings, very adequate  for metal jacketed bullets but not for pure lead..but I solved the problem using bullets with deep grease bands.

I will show groups with Colts soon..
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on May 15, 2017, 10:34:44 AM
Before I sign off from this futile exercise in Necromancy ........ I found long ago, attempting to explain reality to a card carrying "COLTISTA" to be a complete waste of effort.   They (the COLTISTAS) simply refuse to accept that Colt isn't and Wasn't the finest thing ever manufactured on the planet.

Waste of breath Mike.

Oh, and I should mention, it is seldom if ever the "instrument" that wins a competition.  Any competition.  It is ALWAYS the skilled person wielding the instrument.

Coffinmaker

  I'm with CM....this is turning into a fruitless discussion. Shoulda seen it coming.

  CHT
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Major 2 on May 23, 2017, 05:12:13 AM
They  can replicate a perfect clone  as you said, but  it will cost more. The finish will cost more...the forged parts will cost more....making a deeper rifling will cost more...who is going to pay 1500 dollars for a Italian copy with no collector value?




USPFA USFS cultists do and more
Too little a market, and too late for Doug Donnelly


 
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: LonesomePigeon on May 23, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
I only have one "SAA", it's an American made USFA and it's awesome, awesome, awesome. I also think it's fantastic that Uberti and Pietta build the guns they do and that they have been successful at it.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on June 02, 2017, 11:58:18 PM
about 15 years ago, I got my hands on a third gen Colt SAA planning to do an article on it for the Cowboy Chronicle.,  The fit and finish of the stocks was TERRIBLE!, oversized as if not sanded down.  The case blue was washed out, and the cylinder dog drug a line on the cylinder.  Then I got A Hartford Premier.  It was gorgeous, and still less than the Colt.  I personally owned a 1900 vintage 1st Gen in 38WCF, and it was better than the third gen...
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on June 05, 2017, 07:43:41 PM
Was it a new gun  supplied from the  Colt custom shop? Or was it a second hand gun probably manipulated?


   You might want to read up on the Colt forum [urlhttp://www.coltforum.com/#/forums/56?page=1[/url]. Even the died-in-the-wool Colt guys will tell you that for shooting, a Uberti is better.

  CHT
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: llanerosolitario on June 08, 2017, 08:53:58 AM
about 15 years ago, I got my hands on a third gen Colt SAA planning to do an article on it for the Cowboy Chronicle.,  The fit and finish of the stocks was TERRIBLE!, oversized as if not sanded down.  The case blue was washed out, and the cylinder dog drug a line on the cylinder.  Then I got A Hartford Premier.  It was gorgeous, and still less than the Colt.  I personally owned a 1900 vintage 1st Gen in 38WCF, and it was better than the third gen...

Was it a new gun  supplied from the  Colt custom shop? Or was it a second hand gun probably manipulated?
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Ben Beam on June 08, 2017, 09:52:50 AM
The biggest advantage of the clones might be that they allow people like me to participate in Cowboy Shooting. I could never justify spending the money I would need to on a Colt (not saying they're overpriced, just that I'm not in a position to do so). If it wasn't for these clones, my suspicion is that CAS/SASS never would have really taken hold.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Baltimore Ed on June 08, 2017, 04:17:42 PM
I understand the need for quality and durability which is why I invested in Rugers way back when I started playing this game. I can honestly say that other than upgrading the grips with checkered buffalo horn and a couple of coils cut off the mainsprings my .45 Rugers are stock. Authenticity is something else though. We all choose how 'authentic ' we want to be. From Civil War reenactors who pull their machine sewed shirts apart so they can hand stich them back together to cowboys with crotch holsters holding tricked out .32s and mouse fart loads in their short stroke rifles. A reproduction is just that and only that no matter who makes it. Modern metallurgy should be superior to 100 year old metallurgy but the gunmakers skill has gone downhill for the most part. It's all about the bottom line. We need to be true to ourselves and see things as they are. Most of us shoot repro Colt and Winchester firearms, some of us shoot original Colt and Winchester, most shoot a combination of both. We are all trying to experience this part of our country's past. Enjoy the sport, enjoy the firearms but mostly enjoy the people. The stories you tell are about the guys and gals you've shot with not how authentic somebody's gun was.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: nativeshootist on September 16, 2017, 06:43:03 AM
I dont own any of Cimarrons ubertis or piettas, but im curious to know if uberti and pietta have the flat spring/hand that are in the BP revolvers or are they like in my uberti horseman where its a screw and spring in the frame to help move the hand. Could someone help me out here?
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Major 2 on September 16, 2017, 07:44:55 AM
I purchased this Uberti in early '17' - 32/20 , replace the Grips with Black Walnut , noted it has the coil spring & screw in the frame.
This SS Uberti in 45 is a 2014 and has the coil spring & screw.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Abilene on September 16, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
I dont own any of Cimarrons ubertis or piettas, but im curious to know if uberti and pietta have the flat spring/hand that are in the BP revolvers or are they like in my uberti horseman where its a screw and spring in the frame to help move the hand. Could someone help me out here?

The Pietta SAA's and Uberti SAA's for a long time now, do have coil hand springs.  Ubertis have a setscrew behind the spring, Piettas do not.  The various conversions, opentops, and percussion guns have old-style flat handsprings.

Edit: some years ago I saw a brand new '71 Opentop out of the box that had a hole drilled for a coil handspring (though it did not have one).  Which led me to believe Uberti was going to start putting coils in those guns.  But to my knowledge they never did.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: RRio on May 12, 2020, 09:07:51 PM
I will repeat what I posted in another topic:

"Cimarron does sell both Uberti and Pietta SAA's and I have handled quite a few of each.  If authenticity is important to you then Uberti all the way, for a number of small and large differences I won't go into.  If authenticity is not and you just want something for either competition or general shooting, then either is a nice six shooter.  Pietta generally feels much smoother out of the box.  Lighter springs for sure.  Feels like more polish inside as well.  Pietta has squared front and rear sights versus tapered front and v-notch rear of the standard Uberti Model P.  There are other Model P's like the Evil Roys and stainless guns that do have squared sights.  Uberti has the polyurethane finish on the grips.  I've seen the Pietta the same way but I think oiled grip is the standard now.  The Uberti's could use lighter springs, and for some folks that is all they need.  Both brands tend to be timed pretty well out of the box.  I think both brands can hold up well for CAS use.  Serious competitors would want to get an action job with either, though the Pietta might need less work.   I like the Ubertis better for the authentiicity issues. "

Now, having said that, I think that the Uberti Cattleman from some importers other than Cimarron might still have the "safety hammer" with hammer-block linkage in the hammer.  I don't care too much for the looks of that.  Regarding finish, I think the blued cylinders and barrels on the current Piettas are slightly more polished than Uberti.  The case colors on the Pietta tend to be brighter than the average Uberti Cattleman, although the case colors Uberti puts on the Cimarron Model P's looks about the same as the Pietta to me.

After acquiring my first ever Pietta , and owning several Ubertis, I am in total agreement with Abilene on every point he made. The frame contours are better on the Ubertis, but the action on the Piettas are killer. The only thing I had to do on the Pistolero was polish the moving parts and that did not take that much. The Pistolero will past the "10 foot test", though.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Abilene on September 06, 2020, 10:39:52 PM
One more point of data regarding initial build quality.  All the Italian guns can have the occasional issue, and this is just another one of those.  A friend bought a Cimarron Pietta stainless frontier .45 (I think) about a month ago, and shot one match with it.  He said it was over-rotating a lot.  I think he changed the trigger/bolt spring.  So this weekend at the Texas state SASS championship match his son was with him and was shooting it (his son's 3rd match and 2nd match for this gun).  After a few stages he got 5 clicks, set it down, finished the stage.  At the unloading table we're all looking at the base pin to see if it was pushed all the way in, when I noticed the firing pin retainer pin had backed out to the right and was hitting the frame and preventing the hammer from falling.  Oops!  State match not the best place for that sort of thing to happen.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Oregon Bill on January 19, 2021, 09:27:00 AM
Well, I guess after all these years in this thread, the Ubertis and Piettas are still a good bet -- with an occasional issue.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 19, 2021, 02:20:45 PM

 :)  OB   ;)

Absolutely (Stolen Famous Movie Line).

Stay Safe
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Dirty Dick on January 19, 2021, 05:43:12 PM
Converting my four Uberti open tops to coil hand springs. Two of them were over-rotating brand new, installed new Pietta bolts to solve the problem, bot with lots of advice from Coffinmaker. Thank you sir.
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: The original bad bob on August 05, 2021, 11:11:50 AM
Here is my 2 cents

I have a few real Colt saa’s Made in the 1870’s and 1880’s.. I have more Italian Colt saa replicas.. I really like the ASM Hartford model which unfortunately is no longer being made....I also have a few Ubertis and IMO these are superior to pietta because of Ubertis attention to detail and authenticity... my collecting interest is limited to only black powder framed Colt saa’s and the same in the Italian clones.
My choice of an Italian Colt clone would be ASM Hartford model, Uberti, pietta in that order.

My specific favorite shooter Italian replicas are : ASM US cavalry model , Uberti pinched frame early Colt saa replica with German silver (brass) front sight and a older made in 1990’s Uberti cimarron with a 4-3/4” barrel that I conceal carry... some vintage cimarron Ubertis are better than others.. for example the old cimarron I have has a heavy beveled black powder style cylinder and has the deeper cast hammer checkering va. The newest cimarron hammer checkering which appears to be laser cut which I don’t care for at all... looks cheap IMO.. Cimarron does do a very good job with other details like simulation italic barrel markings, authentic caliber markings on trigger guard and serial numbers on all parts emulating the real Colts

It is also my experience that the modern Italian guns are made to closer tolerances and more often shoot to the point of aim than the antique Colts I have owned.

I feel a sense of responsibility owning the Colts ... the responsibility is that it survived in very good condition for over 130 years and I would be really upset if I were the one to damage the pistol by having it fall out of a holster or somehow damage it by carrying it in the field or blow it up by firing it with a hot smokeless round . I don’t have this sense of responsibility with the Italian replicas... I don’t really care if I drop it in the dirt, carry it in the Desert, or if it were to fall out of my holster and land on a rock and be dented or dinged.

For collecting, Colt wins hands down.. for stress free shooting, tinkering on and carrying in the field.. The Italians win

Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on October 20, 2021, 12:41:52 AM
Excellent post!
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Coffinmaker on October 28, 2021, 10:12:41 AM

I have some observations.  Strictly from a mechanics view.  I don’t, and never have collected anything.  I also have absolutely no obbesence to Colt.  For what you get, way way overpriced and just as needy as any Replicant.  At the price point, that’s ludicrous.

Uberti display the more accurate roll marking if that actually mean’s anything.  Took them years to catch up to the coil spring and plunger for the hand and then with infinite wisdom they screwed the. Pooch with that stupid firing pin.  They have always taken a bunch of work to be user friendly.

Pietta has had a better “out of the box” replica since introducing the GW 2.  Just needed a little tweaking.

I place USFA and Standard in the same category as Colt.  Way way overpriced and quite needy. 

You pays your money and takes your chances

Play Safe Out There
Title: Re: Uberti or Pietta SAA Clone Quality, Durability and Authenticity?
Post by: Virginia Gentleman on October 31, 2021, 02:32:16 AM
USFAs were worth it before they got too expensive which helped drive them out of business.  I mean, 4130 and 4140 steel etc are a universal standard in international industry yet the Italian guns are still looked down upon by so many Colt followers.  LOL!  COLT FOLLOWER..... ;D