Smith Carbine - Opinions

[Guns Garrett]

I am considering the purchase of a breechloading carbine for next year's Muster.  Several are currently available on the market: '59/63 Sharps, '60/65 Spencer, and the Smith, plus the big-$$$ Maynards and Keen&Walker from Romano.  Of these, the Smith and Sharps seen to be priced in the same ballpark (about $700, give-or-take), and that's about the upper limit of my blue-collar lifestyle.  Both have their respective degrees of "coolness", but I am leaning towards the Smith, just as a matter of it being a little more uncommon.

I don't care for paper cartridges that much, and I like the idea of the rubber or metal cases available for the Smith. (The metal cases hold reduced charges, about 30 gr., they call them "target cases").  The rubber cases are authentic, although not "india rubber" as the originals.  Plus, the Smith is available with sling swivels, in the Arillery Model, which fits with my character for the Muster, though his particular unit was issued Spencer Infantry Rifles - haven't seen a price on those from Taylor's or Cimarron (supposedly "about the same as the carbine"), but Romano - whew !!!.  Bullets and cases are readily available for the Smith, and no reloading dies are required, as for the Spencer. The Smith takes a .515 bullet, 35-40 gr. powder (I've found both listed).

The above may sound like I've already decided on getting a Smith - and maybe I have, more or less, but I'd like to "cast my bread upon the waters" and find out if any of you all have any experience with this carbine, or knows someone who has, and what your opinion is of it.  I have yet to hold one in my hands at this time. All the reviews of Navy Arms' Smith Carbine I've read have been good, and one mention was made that at the NSSA's annual match, each year more and more Smiths are showing up in the Carbine competition; they now nearly outnumber the Sharps.  I'd hate to lay out a couple week's pay to buy a lemon, or otherwise be dissatisfied.

And now something completly different...
For those gearing up for the Muster and looking to buy a WBTS (aka CW) uniform, try Mill Creek Mercantile, but go through E-Bay(E-Bay stores).  They run a few specials on there that don't show up on their website.  I got a Jr. Officer' shell jacket, with the correct buttons, made-to-measurements, for $68.00, including shipping.  I got mine unlined, but it can be added for a few dollars.  Mine fits good, and seems well-made - no crooked or puckered seams, no loose threads, even the buttons are properly oriented.  I will definitely need to wear a shirt under it - ahhh, the joys of wool.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Guns

[Forty Rod]

See if you can find a used repro Gallager carbine.  They are right classy.

[Big John Denny]

Guns, I had a Smith that I used in the N-SSA. It was accurate considering the N-SSA shot clay pigeons at 50 yards, but you've got to fiddle with your sizer to make sure you get the best accuracy.

A pard and I bought ours together from the same dealer. My bore was .516 and his was .514, go figure. The brass cases that come with the carbine are all drilled out at .50, so none of the bulets will actually fit in them unless you bore them out on a lathe. I used the newer plastic shells that would last a real long time. $25 per hundred.

If you get the Smith, e-mail me for secret info on making your shells.

[Advertising]

[Major Matt Lewis]

Not sure which catagory I will shoot at the Muster.  I now have a pair of 1860 Armys.  I have had an 1860 Henry for a while.  Truth be told I got them for Smoke in the Valley for SASS, but if the Muster is Civil War themed, than I may use them, or I may use my Navy Conversions and Henry.  Or I could just use my Remmies and that new Taurus Thunderbolt or Marlin....

Of Course, we can't forget about my Spencer .56-50 either.....

I MAY even do The Originals thing IF they have it.  Man, I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to this years Muster now that I am just "Joe Shooter."

Decisions Decisions.   

[Grizzle Bear]

I have a repro Smith carbine, and it's a great little gun.  Got some of the smaller, pointed, original type bullets from Dixie, and they shot very well.  Want to try the bullet from the 350-T mould for the Spencer.

The only sort of problem I have had with the Smith, is if it has been cleaned and oiled and put away for a while, you'll have trouble getting the first round off when you try to shoot it again.  Now, first shot only, I remove the nipple and put a little powder under it.  Then it goes first time and thereafter. 

Something else I have learned, but haven't tried myself yet:  I was punching out little dots of nitrated paper, and putting them inside the rubber cases before putting powder in.  A friend with a Maynard showed me he was just using little stick-on dots to cover the flash hole, on the outside.  These seemed to punch through from the cap flash really easy.

I would rate the Smith a little faster to reload than the Sharps, just because of the rubber cases being easier to handle than paper cartridges, if that helps your decision.  Also, at night you could easily reload your rubber cases, unlike the fight it takes, for me at least, to make up the paper cartridges for the Sharps.

Grizzle Bear

who loves strange and unusual guns......

[Books OToole]

Since the GAF National match is an NCOWS match, I'm going to throw around some NCOWS type info.

For the match, if you are shooting for "level one", all of your gear, clothes, etc, should be of the period.  This means you mix and match equipment.  An Infantry coat, with cavalry boots, and a artillery carbine, and a civilian handgun would be level one.

If your are shooting for an "Originals" impression, you should pick a unit, and equip yourself exactly as that unit was equipped.

So If you want to use a Smith Carbine,(see I got around to the right topic) pick a unit that carried them. 

McCauley's book on Civil War Carbines is outstanding.  He discusses all of the carbines used in the war, with numbers ordered by the government, patent drawings and lists some of the units that used each one.  Unfortunatley he only adresses Federal units.  (Although there is one great Photo of a Confederate Cavalryman with a Maynard.)

For example;  Co. I of the Eleventh Kansas Volunteer Cavalry carried Smith Carbines.  Other companies carried Galagers and Stars.

I would like to get a Smith myself.  But it is way down on the prioity list.

Books

[Guns Garrett]

I had posted something on my character several weeks ago, and after corresponding with US Scout, I've pretty much decided I'm going to go as an Artillery Captain of the Mississippi Marine Brigade. They were sort of a "bastard" outfit not really belonging to either the Army (well, technically they were Army) or the Navy, but their C.O., BGen Ellet, reported directly to SecWar Stanton.  He was supposed to coordinate his actions, and cooperate with both Adm. Porter and Gen. Grant, but pretty much went his own way.  The unit was initially envisioned as providing a "rapid deployment force", attached to Ellet's Ram Fleet, to contend with skirmishers and bushwackers along the Miss. River.  Most of the enlisted were recruited from convalecents (sp?) in Army hospitals, and mustered and drilled at the St. Louis Fairgrounds.  Other men were transferred from Illinois units (59th and 63rd, and Co. K of 18th)  The Brigade consisted of a Regiment of Infantry (10 Companies), 4 companies of Cavalry, and 4 Light Artillery Batteries.  Most record show that the Brigade maintained approx.  2200 men between 1863 and 1864.  They were to be divided among the four or five Rams operating on the river, two infantry companies a cavalry company, and one battery each.

When they were formed in the winter of 1862-63, they were issued "new arms", but no mention as to what type.  A couple references show that the first Gov't purchase of Spencer Rifles (with saber bayonet) was made by the Navy and sent to the "Mississippi Flotilla", but whether this refers to Porter's regular Navy Fleet, or Ellet's Ram Fleet is not clear.
As my character is an officer, he would not normally carry a longarm, but who's to say he didn't privately purchase one?  JEB Stuart carried a carbine, as did Mosby, I believe, and John Hunt Morgan preferred the 2-Band Enfield (all Reb cavalry, I know).
The character I'll be portraying is fictional, "Capt Jinks of the Horse Marines", the subject of a popular 1863 song, "Ellet's Horse Marines".  Tho fictional in name, I will attempt to be as accurate as possible to give a general representation of a Brigade Artillery Officer.   I am amazed and very impressed in the great effort and expense folks make in their outfitting, but I'm not "there" yet.
Thanks for the responses.

Your humble servant,
Guns

[US Scout]

Guns, the Mississippi Marine Brigade was issued with Spencers, according to Lt Col Currie, the de facto field commander.  Appears the infantry had the rifle version and the cavalry the carbine.  No idea what the artillery carried.  Apparently a few troops also carried Sharps instead of the Spencers. 

My chosen regiment of the Late Great Unpleasantness is the 2nd Colorado.  When they were reorganized from Infantry to Cavalry in late 1863, they were issued Starr, Merrill and Gallagher carbines.  For pistols they originially received Starrs, then eventually they added Colts and Remingtons.

Arming myself with the pistols is not a problem but, to my knowledge, neither of these carbines are made as a reproduction and the price of an original in shooting condition is beyond me.  However, like you stated, as an officer I can arm myself with a long-arm of choice, and the 2nd Colorado did serve alongside many other regiments armed with Sharps and Spencers, so perhaps an justification could be made as to how one of those might have been acquired.

On the other hand, the Mississippi Marine Brigade (Ellet's Marines) are also another favorite unit and I could use my Spencer for that.

Haven't decided what I'll go as for the 2006 Muster.  Important thing right now is to go!

US Scout
Bvt Col of Marines

[Guns Garrett]

My kinfolk hail from Missouri of that era, so mebbe I'll just jine up wit' ol' Quantrill and ride under the Black Flag.  Leastways then I kin just wear whut I want, and if'n I see a dandy shooter, well, I'll jest hep mysef to it.

Actually, on my dad's side, Gr-Gr-Gr Granpa Moses Vanderpool and his son were Uniion men, 35th Mo. Inf.  Moses was discharged in 1863 for age - he was only 43!, but his son Granville stayed till the end.  His unit didn't see much action.  I do know he spent some time at Helena Ark., and Arkansas Post.  The family joke was that the only Civil War duty anyone in the family (on both sides) had was guarding each other as POW's.  Never could verify that myself, tho.  On mom's side William Johnson came from Staunton VA, and was a member of Co. L ("West Augusta Guards") 5th VA, Stonewall Brigade.  He was wounded in the eye on Henry House Hill at Manassas, and invalided out of the Army a year later.  I was able to obtain Archive paperwork on him, and I am a member of the SCV. 
Family goes back a long ways - stayed out of the Revolution - moved five times between 1777 - 1781, from VA to NC to SC, back to NC, then to Tennessee in 1781.  Garrett Van de Poel had some disagreements with the Brits when they took over New York a hundred years before that, and his grandfather had troubles with the Spanish back in Holland (Dutch Revolt)
"And from the mists and darkness..."
Guns

[Major Matt Lewis]

I am thinking about doing something with the 1st Maine Cavalry.  Apparently they were a kick but group of troopers.  I have found one source that stated that they collectively decided to purchase Henrys.  They also kicked some tail at Brandy Station.  Not to mention that my entire family with the exception of me are from Maine.

There are couple of books that I will look to for assistance.