40/60 whats wrong????

[Slamfire]

   I have been looking at this site ( and others) all the way from the back to the front .The one thing i'v noticed is the lack of talk or at least  a lack of interest in 40/60's. Is it just me or am I over looking something, I really think I would like a 76 in 40/60,,. I'v noticed we don't have any ( 40-60) load data in our load data section , so if any one on here has a 40-60 that you shoot & want to  visit ,let 's do it. I'm sure i'll have one,,,,( my gosh i'v got to have one) before tooooo long. ( Ithink I feel a fever coming on).




 Hootmix.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I recollect some discussion, way back.  The .40-60 is a good round but not much more powerful than a .44-40. I think it was less popular than the three original cartridges. I think Venturino wrote about reloading it. You could simplify matters by loading BP. Just fill it up until a bullet compresses the powder a bit.

Then there is the issue of bullet diameter? I think it was about .406 and about 210 grains. The easiest bullet mould to get would be a .410 for the .41 Rem Mag.

I'm shootin' blind here, as I have no experience with it at all.

P.S: Mister Google told me to look here;

http://www.shootersforum.com/big-bore-lever-guns/52353-winchester-1876-40-60-a.html

And to here;   http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16884

P.P.S: Another article on the history of the 1876 rifle, but not on the .40-60

[Slamfire]

 Sir; Thank you for the info., read both. It looks like a up hill climb , but I'm used to challenges,( I work on sq. hay balers for folks). From what i'v read those folks w/ chaparral's have a hand full of problems,,but nearly all say the chappie barrel are good,,tight and darn accurate. I may look in that direction( price being what it is).,,. Will the 40-60 not make a target round ,,200-300 yds. ( I quit shooting game years ago).  Thanks ,again.





  Hootmix.

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

If they don't shoot back, or run away, or fly off into the blue, you can shoot anything you want, and enjoy every minute.

Just remember that the .40-60 wcf has the same weight of bullet flying only 200 fps faster than a .44-40.  And it comes in a rifle weighing 2 to 3 pounds heavier. Will it reach 300 yards? Yes it will, but the easily available bullets might not be the best choices to make tiny groups. I did notice one shooter posted that he was going to try the .40-60 for levergun silhouettes, which I think reaches out to 200 yards. I have seen a shooter using a .45LC in a marlin, ring a big gong at 400 yards, but I rang it more often and with a bigger KLANG using a BLR'86 in .45-70.

[Silver_Rings]

Howdy Slamfire,

When I started shooting a Chappy in 45-60 there was little info on reloading it.  I have had a lot of fun working up loads for it.  If that sort of thing is fun for you by all means go for it.  If you are planning on using smokeless powder, I bet you could improve over the 44-40 by more than 200 fps.

Silver Rings

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

There are some smokeless loads in the links I posted to get it going thataway.

[Slamfire]

Howdy,Rings, I be a smokless shooter. Sir Charles just point me to the right place i'll read all can .I think this little .40/60 can be made to shoot what I want to do.Need help to find the best model to use in a chappie and which models to stay away from( of course were talking about a "76") I think a barrel length of 24-26" would suit me just fine,the weigth of these rifles ( for my purpose) will be a plus. My "92" 44/40 is a tool for a different job.  And of course I don't need another GUN ,,,I want one.(76). ( dang fever it's getting worse).




 Hootmix

[dusty texian]

Hello Slamfire, I load and shoot the 1876 Winchester in cal. 40/60wcf. I have found the 40/60wcf in the 76 to be a very accurate and plesant cartridge for target and hunting. Like you and many others I had read how the 40/60wcf was a tiny cartridge in a large gun.Well I ended up owning a couple or three 76s in 40-60wcf along with the loading tools bullet moulds ect. So I decided to load some ammo and give the old rifles a wirl. Ha wasnt long before I began to take a likeing to the little 40/60wcf. It can be very accurate @ 200 yd. my eyesight is what limits the distance to 200yd. not the cartridge rifle combo. I had one 1876 Winchester with a very bad bore . The rifle had been cut-down to 22" yrs. back and is in very good condition minus the bore. So I re-lined the old 76 and the ROT is 1/22" . This 76 is very handy to handle and is Super Accurate! My favorite load for it is 55gr. 2ff Swiss bp. std. Lg. rifle primer (No wad or card! ) and the 255gr. bullet cast soft from my 40/82wcf mould @ .406.This  load in the 22" 76 will cut ragged hole groups if I do my part @ 100yd.The rifle hardly moves on the sand bags, and plain just looks good! What more could one ask from a rifle. Go get you one see for yourself ! Most that down the 76, 40/60 have No experience with one. The folk that do ,Well Most like them very much... ,,,,,,,,DT               click on pic!

[Blair]

I have no experience with the 40-60.

I have shot the 40-65 in a single shot Sharps rifle I built up.
It is a real steel Ram killer at 500 yards!
The soft cast lead bullet at 1 to 30 tin to lead weighed in at 420 grs. dia. was .409. ROT was 1-16"
Powder charge of 59 grs by weight of 3 F with no wading or grease cookie.
Once fired cases, no sizing, with the bullet thumb pressed into place.

Something similar to this load may not work in a leaver gun in the .40-60 cal. I don't know?
My best,
 Blair

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Blair;  The rifling rate-of-twist will determine that. IF the twist is fast enough, one MIGHT be able to singleload?

http://kwk.us/twist.html   There are others, but some with limitations (Berger bullets only go up to .338.)

1.  Measure or look up the rifling twist in the rifle.
2.  Enter the diameter and bullet length. (This is cut'n try. Start with the length of a bullet you know, then try another or estimate an hypothetical bullet.)  The length is the important factor.
3.  Try several bullet lengths until the resulting twist value matches the measured twist.
4.  Go back and find a bullet that does not exceed the calculated length. (Pointy noses DO NOT count! For around the speed of sound, & less, round noses work just fine.)
5.  Is the bullet likely to match the oal and chambering requirements of the rifle. (Assuming it is not a singleshot, other than a Martini.)
6.  If several bullets show promise, select one with a high ballistic cooefficient.

Does this sound like the beginning of a steep learning curve

[Blair]

Sir Charles,

I very much agree in all the point you state.
Like I stated I know nothing of the loading of the 40-60.

And yes, it does sound very much like a steep learning curve.
I have avoided posting any info on the 40-65 I have shot for this reason.
But, perhaps it is time, considering the lack of info on the 40-60?
It is my belief that the 40-60 should be a very good cartridge out to about 300 yards with the right bullet.
Maybe not a Ram killer at 500 yards, but I don't know?
My best,
 Blair

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Blair; If you try to cut down a ram with a 500 YARD sight setting you will miss! 

It would be a measured 500 METRES away.

[Slamfire]

 Dusty,i like what I see,very nice rig,that 22" barrel looks great. I think i'll try to pk-up a chappy ,,,you know price and all. Sir C. I hope to do at least 200-250 yds. ,and not just "gong the dong",but try for tight groups,,ahhh that's just me. Looks like we have some intrest going here,,whooorah.







  Hootmix

[dusty texian]

Does anyone know what the ROT  is in the (Chaparral) 40/60wcf barrel ? With the 22" barrel with a ROT of 1/22" the 280 gr.rnfp has given very good accuracy with the re-lined barrel.The 210gr. /255gr./  and  280 gr. rnfp all were stable @ 200yd.I have never tried it past that distance . I would think that @ 300yd. it should still be stable. But that is far shooting for my eyes and open sights. Just may give it a try! ,,,,DT .

[Blair]

Sir Charles,

You know best the range I have shot at.
I will leave it to you to add any funny faces you wish.
My best,
 Blair

[dusty texian]

I have heard from friends that have the Chaparral 1876 Model that they are very accurate shooters. ,,,DT

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Sir Charles,

You know best the range I have shot at.
I will leave it to you to add any funny faces you wish.
My best,
 Blair

Thank you!

[Slamfire]

 Yea,Dusty, most folks that have a chappy ,,say they are kind of clunky ,need lots of smooth'n,polish'n and what not ,but they are very accurate,maybe some one on here would like a (91model)1875 outlaw in 44/40 7.5 barrel ,. I like the rig you have w/ everthing to reload right there kind a like "Valdez".(old movie w/ burt Lancaster).

[dusty texian]

I remember that movie Was a good one! I really do use the old tong tools . This kind of shooting is a slow enjoy it kind of thing for me . I am not a gamer or compete with anyone but myself so Slow and Sure is good for me. And it makes good Ammo,,,,,,DT.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The only reference Mr. Google sent me was that the Chappie .40-60 has a 20 inch rot;

http://www.shootersforum.com/big-bore-lever-guns/31648-looking-opinions-chaparral-1876-rifle.html

This says to me that heavy bullets won't cut it. The heaviest I've seen in personal experience posts was about 260 grains or so. I also came across a reference to the Lyman handbook for load data.