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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Frontier Iron => Topic started by: nativeshootist on October 25, 2018, 12:04:16 AM

Title: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on October 25, 2018, 12:04:16 AM
Looks like many pards dreams have been answered, Cimarron has a Model 3 American model in the works!

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on October 25, 2018, 05:23:47 AM
Time to start saving those pennies again. ;D Only been asking for one for the last twenty years, well me and Forty Rod. ::)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tornado on October 25, 2018, 07:14:28 AM
That looks really cool!
Coming Soon!  ::)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on October 25, 2018, 10:04:19 AM
Oh crap !  44 Russian & 44 Spc'l   Dang.... yep want one
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake C on October 25, 2018, 10:12:10 AM
I'm intrigued by that .44 Special version. It would make a fun pairing with my .44 1860 conversion. Fire .44 Colt out of both of them. I'm desperately hoping that the American Model can handle BP better than the Schofield.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on October 25, 2018, 11:11:31 AM
Mike Harvey has been wanting Uberti to make it for a good while.  He owns Texas Jack Omohundro's American.  I wouldn't hold my breath on it being able to shoot BP (  :( ) but maybe???
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake C on October 25, 2018, 11:14:36 AM
Mike Harvey has been wanting Uberti to make it for a good while.  He owns Texas Jack Omohundro's American.  I wouldn't hold my breath on it being able to shoot BP (  :( ) but maybe???

I could dream  ;D Oh well, I'll have to wait on it for a good while anyway. Hope you all who are able to get them enjoy them! I'm very excited for you all!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jack Straw on October 25, 2018, 11:34:08 AM
Being a sucker for Schofields and any S&W breaktops I'll have to get one in .45 with the 8" bbl.  Or two.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on October 25, 2018, 03:44:01 PM
But will it function with black powder or clog up after a cylinder? Inquiring minds want to know!

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Books OToole on October 26, 2018, 08:17:18 AM
I'd rather have a New Model 3 in .44 Russian &/or .44-40;  But I guess I'll have to get an American.
(If they ever really produce one.)

Books



(I still think an old model 2 in .32 cf would sell like hot-cakes to Civil War Reinactore.)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on October 26, 2018, 09:18:18 AM
Cimarron's view of "coming soon" ...is different than that of reasonable people ...

I offer the little Colt pocket model in .380 that been announced " coming soon " for about 14 months  ..

I recall, the Richards Type II in 07 ....60 more days I was told about 5 times = 300 days it was two years by the time I got one and that was from another source !


I have a #3 and an original Russian ...I may get a 1st. model but I'm not holding my breath

my feeling is it won't happen while I'm still young   :-\
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Will Ketchum on October 26, 2018, 11:26:58 AM
.I may get a 1st. model but I'm not holding my breath

my feeling is it won't happen while I'm still young   :-\

It's already too late for that Roger.  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on October 26, 2018, 12:56:36 PM
Yeah ! see  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Galloway on October 26, 2018, 11:12:47 PM
This is great news! If had in 44 Russian you could call it a First Model Russian like Major 2 implied. Either way it was much more common than the schofield on the frontier. This makes my day, way to go Cimarron! Cheers!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on October 27, 2018, 10:21:25 AM
Now I just have to decide on caliber and barrel length, nah, already know it'll be an 8" in 44 Russian.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on October 27, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
The image shown in the add looks very good.
But, I'm just going to have to wait until they actually come out with one in two to four years from now.
I have an original #3 1ST Model Russian ("Old Old Model Russian", as they were called by 1877). I would like to see how the new and the old in this variation compare with each other. I would hope the Italians do a better job making these than they did with their modification of the #3, 3rd. Model Russian into the "New Model" Russians. (Too much of the #3, 3rd Mod. remains in their New Mod.)
These things are going to be expensive! But, If the Italians do their homework well, they will be worth it.
My best,
 Blair 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on October 30, 2018, 02:46:46 AM
  I'm not all that familiar with this model of revolver, but in their ad, the latch looks different to me than on their similar models.

 CHT
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on October 30, 2018, 10:08:56 AM
Only video I can think of for the model 3 american, is midway usa's video on reloading some .44 american cartridges. The latch was improved upon by the Russians (I think) and Schofield, his latch system being why that certain model 3 was called a Schofield. I think it would be interesting to see the American model be compared with the rest of the model 3 line.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on November 06, 2018, 10:47:49 AM
Been searching the web for any info on this...NOTHING ,,,ZILCH,,,BIG GOOSE EGG,,, ZERO,, TURD WITH ALL THE CRAP SCRAPPED OFF IT,,,NOTHING !!! No info on this gun anywhere... :'(,,It should be against the law to tease people like this...I think it might be a sin.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on November 06, 2018, 12:41:04 PM
Been searching the web for any info on this...NOTHING ,,,ZILCH,,,BIG GOOSE EGG,,, ZERO,, TURD WITH ALL THE CRAP SCRAPPED OFF IT,,,NOTHING !!! No info on this gun anywhere... :'(,,It should be against the law to tease people like this...I think it might be a sin.


Willy, the ad for the Cimarron American is on their home page.  There are about ten banners that rotate across the top of the page, the American is one of those.  You can click on the  >  button on the right to get to it quicker.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 06, 2018, 12:56:41 PM
I still can't decide what caliber to get
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on November 06, 2018, 02:47:38 PM
Cliff,

The .44 S&W "American" cartridge is not listed. So, this variation should not be called a S&W "American" revolver!
.44 Russian is the most correct cartridge caliber for this variation. .44 Special would be next, but then you could shot Russian or .44 Special ammo in it.
This suggestion on my part is only if you wish to maintain any form of Historical Authenticity
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake C on November 06, 2018, 02:59:30 PM
Cliff,

The .44 S&W "American" cartridge is not listed. So, this variation should not be called a S&W "American" revolver!
.44 Russian is the most correct cartridge caliber for this variation. .44 Special would be next, but then you could shot Russian or .44 Special ammo in it.
This suggestion on my part is only if you wish to maintain any form of Historical Authenticity
My best,
 Blair

If I got it (not likely after the recent home repairs), I'd follow Blair's advice and go the .44 Special route. Shoot either .44 Russian or modern .44 Colt out of it. It's a fun caliber, and the .44 Russian is the closest to authentic that you can get. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on November 06, 2018, 05:37:01 PM

Willy, the ad for the Cimarron American is on their home page.  There are about ten banners that rotate across the top of the page, the American is one of those.  You can click on the  >  button on the right to get to it quicker.
[/quote]


I was wanting to know at least a date as to when ....give or take a few months,,,,,And maybe some prices..
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 06, 2018, 05:40:41 PM
Cliff,

The .44 S&W "American" cartridge is not listed. So, this variation should not be called a S&W "American" revolver!
.44 Russian is the most correct cartridge caliber for this variation. .44 Special would be next, but then you could shot Russian or .44 Special ammo in it.
This suggestion on my part is only if you wish to maintain any form of Historical Authenticity
My best,
 Blair

I was sort of thinking 44 special for the reasons you mention but also wondered about the 44-40, was the model 3 not available in 44-40 at one time or was that a different variation of it? I'm sure I've seen original chambered in 44-40
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Galloway on November 06, 2018, 07:24:10 PM
The 1878 new model no. 3 was chambered for 44wcf but not the American.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on November 06, 2018, 10:06:22 PM
I believe that the #3 was originally in 44 Henry, then 44/100 (44 American), then 44 Russian.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on November 07, 2018, 02:32:43 AM
Cliff,

The .44 S&W "American" cartridge is not listed. So, this variation should not be called a S&W "American" revolver!
.44 Russian is the most correct cartridge caliber for this variation. .44 Special would be next, but then you could shot Russian or .44 Special ammo in it.
This suggestion on my part is only if you wish to maintain any form of Historical Authenticity
My best,
 Blair

For one, that's like saying we cant call the 1860/1866 series of rifles and the open top revolvers by their names because they ain't chambered in .44 henry. #2, .44 american is a dead round. And 3rd not every little detail should not really count as no one will mass manufacture. 44 american and the pistol is based off of an actual S&W model 3 American. Rants done, sorry about that.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on November 07, 2018, 07:09:13 AM
Cliff,

Your are correct. But not until the introduction of the "New Model" #3 which was in 1877, and then it will be a few years after that (about 1880) that S&W introduces the long cylinder variation which allows for chambering the longer 44-40 and 38-40.
I would suggest caution with the 44 Colt. The small rim dia. may cause issues with case extraction.
I hope this helps.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 07, 2018, 07:17:35 AM
Cliff,

Your are correct. But not until the introduction of the "New Model" #3 which was in 1877, and then it will be a few years after that (about 1880) that S&W introduces the long cylinder variation which allows for chambering the longer 44-40 and 38-40.
I would suggest caution with the 44 Colt. The small rim dia. may cause issues with case extraction.
I hope this helps.
My best,
 Blair

What other differences are there besides the longer cylinder? Sorry I'm just not that familiar with the S&W models. Should this Cimarron not have been the new model since it obviously has a longer cylinder or are there other obvious differences?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on November 07, 2018, 09:41:31 AM
Cliff,

I would suggest getting the book, "Smith & Wesson,1857-1945" by Neal & Jinks.
This would be the simplest suggestion I could make for a subject that can be very complex. Just within the large frame #3 revolvers there are 4 major design types known as "Models" of the #3's. And each of these major models may have several improvements made to them during their production life. These improvements may also be call "Models" (with a number) by S&W at that time.
An example of this is the first model #3 American and Russian. With some internal improvements these become known as the Second Model of the first model #3 American or Russian Model.
Nomenclature starts to get really confusing with the introduction of the #3 Model 2, and the later #3 Model 3. I guess S&W was also getting confused as well because the forth variation was simply called the "New Model #3"
Again, I hope this helps.
My best,
 Blair   
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on November 07, 2018, 11:21:41 AM
In my opinion, the most obvious visual differences in the various major models of #3 S&W is in the length of the extractor rod housings beneath the barrel group. The older models have very long housings compared to the newer ones such as the "New Model #3's", which are almost nonexistent. Improvements in extractor design of the extractor, helps to lighten this barrel group.
Next would be in the shape of the grip portion of the frame group. These variations are something that I believe most people notice first. Grip shape comes about due to the large numbers of revolvers being orders from the Russian Gov.
Many other less obvious changes exist. The book on S&W, 1857-1945 will help point these changes out and offer explanations as to why they were used.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on November 07, 2018, 05:48:39 PM

Picky .... Picky .... PICKY!!  Why is it??  What you might ask.  Well, it seems a lot of folks spend an inordinate amount of time championing their respective wish list of "wants" for reproductions of obsolete guns.  A manufacturer such as Uberti takes the challenge and brings out a Smithy and Wesson (Oil??) Schofield and suddenly all those whom whined start to pick it apart.

Here we are, new S&W #3, what happens??  Pick it apart.  Find every flaw from the Original.  Way back, when the reproduction of the Schofield appeared the glitterati screamed because it wasn't available in 45 Colt.  What??  The original was never chambered in .45 Colt but now we had to have a 45 Colt and guess what, we got it and it won't run with BP unless carefully massaged (If then).  Be careful what you ask for.

So instead of finding every little flaw in the new offering, get out there and BUY ONE so Uberti will continue to make them.  I personally want a pair to go with my 1866 .44 Russian Trapper.  Of course, Mine will be set up for 44 Russian.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on November 07, 2018, 06:54:00 PM
Word ! 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 07, 2018, 07:44:28 PM
Thanks for the info
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on November 08, 2018, 12:23:55 AM
.44 russian or special  is what I'm thinking if or when I ever get one,  I like the american repro. All the other model 3 repros were out by time I get into these replicas, so having a new one come out is exciting to me.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on November 08, 2018, 08:58:25 AM

Now I have a question.  A quandary if you will.  Recently, I read a short thread about shooting BP thru a .45 Colt Uberti Schofield.  I believe we all know, it don't work.  Maybe.

Because Uberti removed most all of the Schofield Gas Ring when they extended the cylinder to accommodate 45 Colt, the gun now fouls terribly.  Even Mine (I had one).  But the short thread I ran into, related using Cowboy 45 Special cases, 150Gr EPP UG bullets and Pearl Lube.  The author related being able to shoot his Schofield in .45 Colt with no more hassle than any other suppository shooter.  I no longer have a Schofield with which to investigate.  Also, the EPP UG 45 carries a boat load of any lube.

I do have a LARGE "WHY" but no empirical data.  I "think" his success may have been because the initial blast of gun gas exiting the cartridge was well behind  the cylinder face and more "shaped" for entry into the barrel breach.  Da guy said it works.  That would indicate to me, the same may well also be true for a .44 Special Uberti with the "new build" long cylinder.  Switching to 44 Russian cases could well make the Uberti Schofield more civilized rather than running that heathen fad stuff.

Need someone with the appropriate hardware to try and then report back.  Oh, forgot.  What's "Pearl Lube?"
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Will Ketchum on November 08, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
Picky .... Picky .... PICKY!!  Why is it??  What you might ask.  Well, it seems a lot of folks spend an inordinate amount of time championing their respective wish list of "wants" for reproductions of obsolete guns.  A manufacturer such as Uberti takes the challenge and brings out a Smithy and Wesson (Oil??) Schofield and suddenly all those whom whined start to pick it apart.

Here we are, new S&W #3, what happens??  Pick it apart.  Find every flaw from the Original.  Way back, when the reproduction of the Schofield appeared the glitterati screamed because it wasn't available in 45 Colt.  What??  The original was never chambered in .45 Colt but now we had to have a 45 Colt and guess what, we got it and it won't run with BP unless carefully massaged (If then).  Be careful what you ask for.

So instead of finding every little flaw in the new offering, get out there and BUY ONE so Uberti will continue to make them.  I personally want a pair to go with my 1866 .44 Russian Trapper.  Of course, Mine will be set up for 44 Russian.

Amen my friend
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on November 08, 2018, 11:59:34 AM
Coffinmaker,

No new "Smithy and Wesson (oil??)"? Do you have access to an Original #3 S&W for comparison? (even if you barrow these for your own comparison?)
I think I could address your "quandary" if you could. But, it will have to be in a situation where you can see what I am suggesting for yourself.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on November 08, 2018, 04:03:21 PM
Coffinmaker, you da man! I can remember when I bought the Navy Arms Uberti Schofield back when it came out, got it in 45 Colt and had a blast with it. Then the 45 Schofield cases came on the scene and I had even more fun with it, knowing I was shooting the correct ammo (or as close as I was going to get because of BP fouling) out of it. Now it has a stable mate, an original S&W 2nd model that was cut down to around 4 1/2"s or so sometime in the past. And now I know just what the BP Schofield can do and how much fun it is (out of a Smith, been using them for years in old Colts).
Last year I stumbled onto a good deal for a cut down 2nd model American and have been trying to gather up everything I need to fire it. Now that I've got everything I'll take some time this winter and get a batch of 44 American loaded up for the spring (can't understand why the indoor range people object to all that sulfurous smoke). And now, after all the years of asking for it, Cimarron answers our prayers and announces an American replica (finally Uberti agreed with Mike). Can't think of a better retirement present the kids can all chip in together on for the old man (course I've got to survive till retirement yet).
I know that the lawyers have gotten involved and can't wait to see just how they may have corrupted the old girl, but I'll still love her when she finally arrives on the scene. Why, because I asked for her, all the way back to Val Forgett II, and tho it's taken many years and many extra hands, I'm just grateful to realize that someone is listening to us. And minor variations from the original and all, I still try to support those that support and work for us.

As I said before, 8"s of barrel and in 44 Russian...close enough for me. And you won't hear any complaints.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on November 08, 2018, 05:07:34 PM
Since the Coffinmaker , Pathfinder and Will ( and my own self ) agree ...

I moved the forth coming American to # 1 on my want list ...


If the Planets line up just so it will join these two.... and in 44 Spec. / Russian
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on November 08, 2018, 05:33:02 PM
Now I have a question.  A quandary if you will.  Recently, I read a short thread about shooting BP thru a .45 Colt Uberti Schofield.  I believe we all know, it don't work.  Maybe.

Because Uberti removed most all of the Schofield Gas Ring when they extended the cylinder to accommodate 45 Colt, the gun now fouls terribly.  Even Mine (I had one).  But the short thread I ran into, related using Cowboy 45 Special cases, 150Gr EPP UG bullets and Pearl Lube.  The author related being able to shoot his Schofield in .45 Colt with no more hassle than any other suppository shooter.  I no longer have a Schofield with which to investigate.  Also, the EPP UG 45 carries a boat load of any lube.

I do have a LARGE "WHY" but no empirical data.  I "think" his success may have been because the initial blast of gun gas exiting the cartridge was well behind  the cylinder face and more "shaped" for entry into the barrel breach.  Da guy said it works.  That would indicate to me, the same may well also be true for a .44 Special Uberti with the "new build" long cylinder.  Switching to 44 Russian cases could well make the Uberti Schofield more civilized rather than running that heathen fad stuff.

Need someone with the appropriate hardware to try and then report back.  Oh, forgot.  What's "Pearl Lube?"

Some guns will, some won't. It is because the original Smith and Wessons have a much longer bushing extending in front of the cylinder so nothing blows in around the pin. I think as you mentioned it partly has much to do with just "how much" black powder and fouling you are throwing at it affects your success rate along with the lube itself.

A friend who is on this board shoots his with 45 Schofield loads and it runs fine with normal grease and big lubes. Maybe he will report on it if he sees this. I know another fella that tried it in 44-40 uberti schofield and it locked up tight after a few rounds but I don't know what bullets he was using but I'm sure bore butter on the pin because he is a fan of that.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Mogorilla on November 09, 2018, 07:11:22 AM
I agree with you on all counts Books.  Would love one in 44-40 and would totally put that on hold to buy a model 2 in 32 cf. 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on November 09, 2018, 12:33:59 PM

Now for some real BLASPHEMY.  Were I certain of success with BP and Subs in a .45 Colt Uberti Schofield.  Did I say CERTAIN!!!  I'd buy a pair of Uberti .45s with the Three and a Half inch barrels.  Yepper I would.  Then I'd ship em off to TK precision and have them set up for Moon Clips.  Then I'd load them in accordance with the suggested success formula (.45 ACP case has the same internal capacity as the C45S and is the same OAL at the case mouth), 150Gr EPP UG 45 with a boat load of nice soft lube and let em rip.  Yessir I would.

Now ....... I know the purists are taring their collective fur out by the roots at the mere mention of Moon Clips in a Schofield but just think of the consternation you'd raise at your typical CAS match.  Some of those SASS Thread Counters would suffer immediate apoplexy the second the Schofield ejected the Moonie.  Oh what FUN!! 

Oh, and if necessary, the TK Moon Mod does leave a shelf for the case rim should one want to run C45S rather than ACPs in the Moonies.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on November 09, 2018, 03:09:33 PM
I really don't care what a firearm might be chambered in by todays repro's. . 44 rim fire is simply not a practical choice for modern shooters. So if one has a choice, why not go with what the originals had - if that were available. .44 Russian or .44 Special are!

Now, this subject is based on the "American" or "Russian" revolver. Not the Schofield type revolver!
However, One can cut the barrel of a Schofield off to a 3 and 1/2" barrel because the extractor rod housing is shorter on the Schofield than on the earlier Models.
I also have no problem with any barrel length. Providing the design allows for the modification. Basing this type of modification off of an original example would also be nice. That isn't going to happen here!
My best,
 Blair 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jack Straw on November 09, 2018, 03:27:04 PM
Well Coffinmaker, I like the idea of opening a Schof and popping out a moon clip.  Yes, it would raise some eyebrows!!

I know we're getting a ways off topic here but back in the dark ages (when men were men and targets were small)  our monthly match at the Pala Reservation in So. Cal. typically had a stage that required a handgun reload.  Yours truly was an early adopter of Navy Arms Schofields and on those reload stages I, being a smart ass, would shout at my posse mates and ask them to watch carefully as my breaktop ejected its empties skyward five at a time.  Great fun it was.  I never understood the fascination with poking at an ejector rod but, to each his own, eh?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: John William McCandles on November 09, 2018, 04:01:27 PM
As Cliff stated in a previous post, I can run a full match with my Uberti Schofield in .45. I use .45 Schofield cases with a 200 grain big lube over Goex FFg powder. It is an older Navy Arms import with no modifications. When I bought it used off Gun Broker Bushwhacker and I ran 60 rounds of the same load through it with no trouble.
Maybe I'm just lucky or it could be my setup on a stock pistol.
As a matter of fact I won the 2 gun black powder duelist category at the 2018 NCOWs National shoot with it.
RD Strain also shoots his Uberti Russian in .44 Russian running black powder.

JW.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: JollyJake on November 12, 2018, 10:30:11 PM
Can't get here soon enough.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on December 21, 2018, 12:21:23 AM
Interesting for sure. I wonder if they copied the hammer actuated bolt one or the trigger actuated bolt model?  ???  As well, I wonder if they copied the original rack & pinion extractor or got lazy and just slapped in the later Schofield one as they are already tooled up for it?  ??? Regardless, it will win on style points as it was the first large cal. metallic ctg. production American made revolver having gone on sale to the public in the latter part of 1870 when Colt was fiddle farting around with the Thuer.  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on December 21, 2018, 09:02:33 AM
I don't believe the Model 3 was ever chambered for the 44 WCF, for the same reason the Schofield wasn't chambered for the 45 Colt. The cylinder was too short. and that resulted from the original No3 being chambered for the 44 Russian cartridge, the shorter older brother to the 44 Special.

If this new gun (or figment of Uberti's imagination) is chambered for the 44 Special it is no more authentic than their Schofield, in that they both have longer cylinders than the originals.

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on December 21, 2018, 09:33:08 AM

Well Golly Gosh Dave T., 

Authenticity is such a fickle mistriss.  If the Smith Replicants were dead authentic, then the unwashed masses would all be complaining because they weren't being made in 45 Colt, not 44-40 and why wasn't Uberti making them with an extended cylinder.  Nobody is ever satisfied.  What's wrong with "Don't worry ..... Be Happy".  After all, maybe Cimarron won't introduce the thing, and Uberti won't make the thing for retail on this side of the pond.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on December 21, 2018, 09:48:39 AM
I also have a Uberti Schofield, a 5" .45, and using Big Lube bullets (I have the 250 grain PRS mold) with the S&W case it runs just fine with OE 3f Black.  Fine combination with my .45 Henry.  (lube is olive oil and old church candle stubs)

Just an observation: the continuous popularity of the .45 Colt round was one of the contributing factors in the creation of CAS and the modern cowboy shooting genre.  Even should CAS completely die off it will still be a popular seller.  It simply makes no economic sense to create a large frame vintage reproduction that does not accommodate this round.   We are a Niche market, and compromises must be made and accepted.

Or you'll get nothing, and like it!

(FWIW, my shaved 1915 Webley MK V loves BP in a .45 ACP/Auto Rim case.)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on December 21, 2018, 10:08:04 AM

I fear, were I to set foot inna church to abscond with the candle Stubbs, I would suddenly find myself with a profusion of well seasoned ceiling beams.  Not I.  Nope.  Perhaps is some kindly soul were to bring them out ............  ::)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on December 21, 2018, 10:44:28 AM
It helps if ya volenteers to help clean said church.  There's always a box of stubs to be thrown away.  An at least fer us Catholics, they have to be beeswax.  (Church law says they has to be of "natural" materials)

Perhaps if you was to make friends with some well meaning if naieve church lady . . .
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Trailrider on December 21, 2018, 11:53:21 AM
I don't believe the Model 3 was ever chambered for the 44 WCF, for the same reason the Schofield wasn't chambered for the 45 Colt. The cylinder was too short. and that resulted from the original No3 being chambered for the 44 Russian cartridge, the shorter older brother to the 44 Special.

If this new gun (or figment of Uberti's imagination) is chambered for the 44 Special it is no more authentic than their Schofield, in that they both have longer cylinders than the originals.

Dave
The New Model #3 was chambered in .44-40 and .38-40, with the cylinder and IIRC the frame lengthened accordingly. I saw an original in .44-40 BLOWN UP!!! by a shooter who was using smokeless reloads from a "friend".  :o :'(  Unfortunately, I was not permitted to examine his remaining loads or the gun, so can't say what caused the damage.  It has been quite a few years ago, but I seem to recall he fired two rounds that impacted about 10 feet in front of the muzzle.  It could have been a double charge or "premature shot-start", a phenomenon where insufficient crimp and case tension on the bullet allows the slug to jump into the forcing cone before the smokeless powder is burning stably (5,000-7,000 psi). When the bullet stops, the pressures increase exponentially until the case ruptures, allowing flame to cut through the cylinder walls!  Regardless, it was a real shame that a fairly rare gun (on a few thousand NM#3's were made in the longer rounds) was ruined.  :(
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on December 21, 2018, 04:50:25 PM
Trailrider,

I stand (or in this case set)  corrected. I did not know that. All the originals I've seen were the shorter cylinder models.

Coffinmaker,

You took me way to seriously. I was trying to answer a question (to which it turns out I had the wrong information) and simply making an observation. Perhaps you need to stay off the strong coffee for a while (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on December 21, 2018, 11:59:06 PM
Having shot two actual REAL American Models I can assure you that no one will be "gaming" in CAS with one. They are a rather large revolver and ungainly for fast cocking. Most buyers will be buying one either for historical reasons and get one chambered in .44 Russian as there were Old Old Model Russians (collector nomenclature) chambered in that round and I have a friend who has a 2nd Model American chambered in .44 Russian!! We figure it was a factory cleanout using an excess Russian cylinder. The second set of buyers will be those who just simply want one and will want one in their favorite chambering, e.g., .45 Colt & 44-40. They will probably not shoot it much just for the reason I listed in my second sentence above. It was a novel breakthrough at the time, but fast shootin' it ain't.  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on December 22, 2018, 01:03:03 PM
S&W produces several of the long cylinder variations of their revolver. All are within the New Model #3's or the DA variation sometime after 1881 when the DA was introduced.
Non of the earlier models of the "New Model's" (types) were produced with the long cylinder. These earlier models were chambered in .44 Henry rim fire, .44 S&W (American) or .44 Russian.
"New Model" (types including the DA's and "Target Models" will be chambered in .32-44 and 38-44 "Target", .38-40 and .44-40 (WCF) in both the SA and DA revolvers.
So why not the .45 Colt in either the S&W or Winchester? They could have!
It was because of the small rim dia. of the older style cartridge cases of the .45 Colt. Extracting a fired case was simply not reliable!
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on December 24, 2018, 09:04:53 PM
The new model 3 was chambered in 44wcf, a lot of these repros cant be authentic since a lot of the ammo they were originally chambered for aren't around no more. So if the cylinder is a little bit lengthen, so what?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on December 24, 2018, 11:13:23 PM
...So if the cylinder is a little bit lengthen, so what?

Because they will probably do just what ASM & Uberti did with the Schofield in lengthening the cylinder for .45 Colt:  eliminate the gas collar that is so desperately needed to fire real BP. S&W lengthened their gas collar THREE times during Model 3 manufacture in the 1800's for that very reason, i.e., fouling issues.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on January 02, 2019, 11:42:31 PM
Howdy

I can tell you that since the new American Model is advertised as being chambered for 44-40 and 45 Colt, it will probably suffer the same problems as the other replica S&W #3 Top Breaks. In order to fit the longer cylinder for those cartridges into a non-lengthened frame, the gas bushing at the front of the cylinder had to be shortened.

Some shooters may get away with BP in their replica S&W Top Breaks, but generally speaking they tend to bind up after not too many shots.

Perhaps this would be a good time for a bit of an explanation of the five distinct Top Break S&W revolvers that were all built on the #3 sized frame.

This is the one that started it all, the one Cimarron is going to introduce, the American Model.

To me the identifying features are the almost straight up and down grip shape, and the long extractor housing under the barrel.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/American/11025208_5_zps4f771678.jpg)




The history is that the Rollin White patent, which patented the idea of boring a chamber completely through a cylinder so that cartridges could be fired, was about to expire. S&W had an exclusive licensing agreement with Rollin White, no other American manufacturer could legally produce a revolver that had the chambers bored straight through for cartridges. Starting in 1857 S&W began producing small Tip Up revolvers using bored through chambers. These small revolvers were only chambered for 22 and 32 rimfire cartridges. The first one produced, was called the No. 1. It was a tiny seven shot revolver firing what we would call today the 22 Short cartridge. In 1861 S&W made a larger 32 Rimfire Tip Up and called it the No. 2. It had six chambers and fired a 32 Rimfire cartridge. While not as powerful as the percussion revolvers of the day, it had the advantage of being much quicker to reload. In 1865 S&W made a slightly smaller five shot 32 Rimfire Tip Up that could be more easily concealed than the No. 2. Since the numbers 1 and 2 were already taken, S&W decided to call the new version the No. 1 1/2.

This photo shows the comparative sizes of, bottom to top, a No. 1 Tip Up, a No. 1 1/2 Tip Up, a No. 2 Tip Up, and a Number 3 Top Break Russian model.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Tip%20Ups/Tip%20Ups%20and%20Russian_zpseucpz9nr.jpg)




So that's where the number 3 came from. I should hasten to add that there were five separate and distinct models built on the #3 size frame. When somebody says to me they have a Number 3, I always ask them exactly which model they are taking about. Roy Jinks, the official S&W historian once said that when the Clint Eastwood movie The Unforgiven came out, with its emphasis on the Schofield Model, he got a lot of calls from people who thought they had a Schofield. Many of them did not.

Back to the history for a moment. The White patent was due to expire in 1869. White tried to get it renewed, but failed. Daniel Wesson was convinced all the other revolver makers were waiting with baited breath for the patent to expire so they could hit the market with their own revolvers with cylinders bored through for cartridges. So he (or maybe the designers he employed) went to work to come up with something completely new. It was the American Model. Unlike the Colt and Remington cartridge conversions, which were basically simple updates of the earlier percussion models, the concept of a Top Break was it could be broken open, rotating the barrel down, and the empty cartridges could be automatically ejected. Then while the gun was still broken open, it could be reloaded. A very innovative idea.

As it turned out, Colt did not bring out the Single Action Army until 1873, and Remington did not bring out their Model 1875 until, well 1875. So S&W pretty much had the large frame cartridge revolver market all to themselves for a few years.

The American Model was the first cartridge revolver purchased by the US Army. In 1870 1000 were delivered to the Army.

A word here about the length of the cylinder on Top Break Smiths. A few American Models were chambered for the 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge. However most were chambered for the 44 S&W American cartridge, a round using a heeled bullet. This cartridge was pretty much a centerfire version of the Henry round. A relatively short round, it turned out that a cylinder 1 7/16" long was a perfect match for the 44 S&W American round. Although I do not have an American Top Break revolver in my collection (yet) whose bore I can slug, I have a couple of the cartridges. The bullets run about .430 in diameter, and are the same diameter as the case, being a heeled bullet.




In 1871 Russian Grand Duke Alexei Alexandrovich (son of the Czar) made a grand tour of the United States. He went on a hunting expedition with the likes of Buffalo Bill and General Custer. At some point he became enthralled with the S&W Top Break American model. The Russian government was looking for a modern revolver for their Army and concluded a contract with S&W for 2000 revolvers. These revolvers looked exactly the same as the American Model, except they were chambered for a new cartridge. Unlike the 44 S&W American, the new cartridge used a bullet that was the same diameter as the inside of the case. This new cartridge became known as the 44 Russian cartridge.

Smith and Wesson eventually built over 150,000 revolvers for the Russian government. The later two versions featured the distinctive hump on the grip as well as the spur on the trigger guard.

This is a 2nd Model Russian. It features the big hump on the grip, and the spur on the trigger guard. Notice the extractor housing is slightly shorter than the extractor housing of the American Model. The cylinders on the Russian models were also 1 7/16" long, still perfect for the 44 Russian cartridge. I can state from experience that the big hump on the grip frame makes it very awkward to cock and fire this revolver one handed.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/Russian02.jpg)




The Russian model had a new feature on the latch. There was a shelf on the underside of the latch. There was a mating relief in the hammer. With the hammer all the way forward, the cylinder remained locked in position, and the cut in the hammer for the shelf on the latch prevented the latch from being opened.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/hammerdown.jpg)




With the hammer at half cock, the cylinder was free to rotate and the latch could be opened for loading.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/Russian/halfcock.jpg)





The Schofield Model. Easily identified by the completely rounded grip shape, the shorter still  extractor housing, and of course, the frame mounted latch.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/Schofield%20SN%202254%2001_zpszxqiqyow.jpg)



George Schofield was a cavalry officer who liked the American model, but he was able to modify the latch on one so that a mounted soldier could break one open and reload with one hand while riding. Breaking open the earlier Top Breaks was pretty much a two handed operation. One hand held the frame while the other hand operated the latch with the thumb and rotated the barrel down to load. With Schofield's serpentine shaped latch on the frame, the mounted rider could pop the latch with his thumb and brush the barrel open against his leg. Then he could shift the gun to his reins hand and reload. I don't know one end of a horse from the other, but I can load a Schofield that way, although I would probably sweep everybody at the loading table if I tried it at a CAS match.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/Latch%20Open_zpsbmmd2hji.jpg)




Schofield was clever enough to patent his latch mechanism, and crafty old Daniel Wesson set his engineers to finding a way around Schofield's patent, so he would not have to pay any royalties. They did not succeed and Wesson could not get around Schofield's patent. The Schofield model was only in production from 1875 until 1877. There were two models, there were a little over 3000 of the first models made, and about 6,000 of the second models made. The chief difference was in the shape of the latch. The Schofield pictured above is a 1st Model.

Colt had landed a contract for 8,000 Single Action revolvers in 1874, and S&W did not want to be left out. The Army specified they wanted a 45 caliber cartridge for any new revolvers, not 44. Opening up the chambers and bore of their Top Breaks slightly to 45 caliber was not a problem, but a 1 7/16" long cylinder could not accommodate the 45 Colt cartridge. With lucrative foreign contracts for the Russian model, S&W was not going to change the tooling for a longer cylinder. Instead they proposed the shorter 45 caliber cartridge that eventually became the 45 Schofield cartridge.




The New Model Number Three.

In 1878, S&W cataloged what I believe to be their finest Top Break #3 revolver, the New Model Number Three.

Eventually chambered for 17 different cartridges, this model also had a 1 7/16" long cylinder. The most common chambering was 44 Russian. Easily recognized by the very short extractor housing, and the slight hump on the grip. Some of these, particularly for export to Japan had a trigger guard spur like the Russian model, but those produced for domestic consumption usually did not.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/My%20New%20Model%20Number%20Three/new%20model%20number%20three%2002_zpsczb4qqj3.jpg)




In 1885 a version with a 1 9/16" long cylinder was created specifically for the longer 44-40 cartridge. S&W also lengthened the frame by 1/8" so the very important gas collar at the front of the cylinder did not need to be shortened. S&W knew how to design a revolver that would fire Black Powder cartridges with out any problems. This model was given the specific model name of New Model Number Three Frontier. There were only 2072 of this model made, and 786 were converted to 44 Russian for sale to Japan.

There were also 74 New Model Number Threes made with the 1 9/16" cylinder chambered for 38-40. These are usually known as the New Model Number Three .38 Winchester. They are very rare.




The 44 Double Action.

The fifth type of S&W No. 3 Top Break was the 44 Double Action. This was the only double action Top Break S&W built on the #3 sized frame. Easily recognized because it is a double action. The most common chambering for this model was again 44 Russian, with a 1 7/16" long cylinder. The trigger guard and trigger are very distinctly shaped too. This one is a target model with a target front sight and a windage adjustable rear sight.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/DA%2044%20Nickel/nickel44DA01_zpsaef44d59.jpg)




There were about 15,000 of these made chambered for 44-40, with a 1 9/16" long cylinder and the lengthened frame.

There were also 276 made chambered for 38-40, with the 1 9/16" cylinder and lengthened frame.




Gas Bushings

Since I have blabbed this long, indulge me a moment more for some photos of gas bushings on S&W Top Break cylinders.

This is a Schofield cylinder. The part protruding from the front of the cylinder is the gas collar or bushing. It is a separate piece pressed into the cylinder. The bushing sits about .180 proud of the front face of the cylinder. The extractor rod and extractor spring run the full length of the cylinder, inside the bushing.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/cylinder_zps67806ff8.jpg)





In this photo I have lined up the cylinder with the cylinder arbor. Notice the helical groove cut around the arbor.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/schofieldcylinderframeassembly01_zpscd6c6b19.jpg)




In this photo I have slid the cylinder partially onto the arbor. The bushing rides outside the arbor, while the extractor rod and spring ride inside the arbor.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/schofieldcylinderframeassembly02_zps82264c55.jpg)




In this photo, the cylinder is completely seated on the arbor. The front of the bushing is bearing against the bottom of the barrel. This means the barrel/cylinder gap is about .180 horizontally removed from the front of the bushing. When Black Powder fouling is blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap it is blasted out pretty much in the shape of a disk. The front of the bushing is far enough away from the b/c gap, that the underlying cylinder arbor is shielded from fouling blasted out of the gap. So very little fouling makes its way onto the arbor. BP fouling deposited on the arbor is the chief reason for binding with revolvers fired with Black Powder. Also, the helical groove cut on the arbor provides clearance for any fouling that does make its way onto the arbor, also preventing binding. With Big Lube bullets with huge lube grooves full of a BP compatible bullet lube, and plenty of Ballistol on the arbor, I can shoot my top Break Smiths with Black Powder cartridges all day long without any binding.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/smith%20and%20wesson/my%20schofield/schofieldcylinderframeassembly03_zpse5dc8b74.jpg)




Here is a close up of the horizontal separation of the barrel/cylinder gap and bushing on my New Model Number Three.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Black%20Powder%20Bushings/BarrelCylinderGap_zpse6459379.jpg)




Compare that with the horizontal separation on this Uberti Schofield. Yes, the cylinder is not seated all the way, but you can see how much of the bushing was stolen away when Uberti lengthened the cylinder for 45 Colt without lengthening the frame a corresponding amount.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Black%20Powder%20Bushings/ubertibushingunmodified_zps05cbcfa7.jpg)




There is nothing new about this idea of horizontal separation of the barrel/cylinder gap from the front of a cylinder. Take a look some time at a Colt, and Uberti Cattlleman, or even a Ruger Vaquero. They all have a sizeable bushing on the front of the cylinder and they can all be made to shoot Black Powder well without binding.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on January 03, 2019, 12:09:58 AM
It helps if ya volenteers to help clean said church.  There's always a box of stubs to be thrown away.  An at least fer us Catholics, they have to be beeswax.  (Church law says they has to be of "natural" materials)

Perhaps if you was to make friends with some well meaning if naieve church lady . . .

My Orthodox church recycles the beeswax candle stubbs. I don't burn candles, but drop a few extra bucks in the collection plate instead. As a former church treasurer, I know how much we spent on those suckers.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on January 03, 2019, 07:56:48 AM
Driftwood Johnson,

Very well done! Thanks.
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tornado on January 03, 2019, 10:16:14 AM
Great response from Driftwood!

In a nice coincidence, I just got this email from Cimarron:
Continuing our tradition of re-introducing legendary firearms, Cimarron now offers the Model No. 3 American, First Model, made from an original in the Cimarron Collection. It was a long road in development with Uberti due to tooling delays and required changes. We went through a few prototype iterations, turning down some unacceptable attempts, sending Uberti back to the drawing board. No corners were cut in reproducing this Cimarron replica. It's as close to the original as possible, yet it is capable of handling modern factory smokeless ammunition in such popular cowboy rounds as .45 Colt, .44-40, .44 S&W Russian and .44 Special. Cimarron's Model No.3 American features such details as the early 1st Model frame and grip, the correct-style case colored top latch, trigger guard and hammer. Grips are period, two-piece walnut and the sixgun is offered in blued finish or nickel (both with the color cased parts as described). Civilian or military models are available. Military revolvers are martially marked with the U.S. markings, inspector stamps and a grip cartouche. The detail is perfect.  In the end the Uberti crew came through for Cimarron, producing what may be the finest replica produced, ever, by anyone.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on January 03, 2019, 10:31:45 AM
 Good stuff here guys. I wonder if they'll have any safety features on them?

  CHT
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on January 03, 2019, 05:34:28 PM
CHT, they have to to get them into the States. Just remains to be seen what kind. Dang, now I have to consider a military model as well? This just gets more expensive all the time. Oh well, can't have too much of a good thing. Hmmm, military or civilian nickle first? I wonder if the military will have the oil hole on it?  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on January 03, 2019, 05:44:02 PM
Driftwood Johnson

Thanks for the schooling,,
A  tip of the hat to ya. ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 03, 2019, 07:57:47 PM
Driftwood always has the best pics.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Books OToole on January 04, 2019, 08:14:12 AM
An excellent No. 3 tutorial.

Books
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on January 04, 2019, 08:52:25 AM
An excellent No. 3 tutorial.

Books

DITTO!

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Will Ketchum on January 04, 2019, 09:59:36 AM
Driftwood, I will add my appreciation. If Books approves then you did an outstanding presentation.

Will Ketchum the foremost lover of the New model No. 3
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on January 04, 2019, 10:28:53 AM
 ??? There must be something wrong with me (yeah, I know). I've always preferred the grips on the American and the Schofield to the New Model. Everyone always tells me how comfortable the New Model grip is, but, to me anyway, it's not. And I don't have large hands either. Guess that's why they make the older models, not all of us are the same.  :-\
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on January 06, 2019, 10:45:36 PM
Driftwood, the myth of the early .44 Russian cartridges having an inside lubed bullet refuses to die even though ammo collectors have stated that they weren't.

In U.S. Cartridges and Their Handguns 1795-1975 by Charles R. Suydam, he states that early .44 Russian factory loads used 275 gr. outside lubed bullets over 23 gr. of black powder. It also states that by about 1888 most factory ammunition had become loaded with inside lubricated bullets of 246 gr. over the same BP load. As well, one can go here & see the early cartridges if you scroll down:

http://www.oldammo.com/september04.htm

The story was that a famous revolver target shooter (W. Bennett or Ira Paine, can't recall offhand) in the 1880's remarked to one of the cartridge cos. about fouling issues with his target .44 and they soon switched over to inside lubed bullets. That was in an early 2000's Handloader magazine history of the cartridge by a renowned collector. I have that issue buried somewhere, but I can't recall the month/year offhand.  ???

One thing the Russian inspectors at the S&W factory insisted upon, and which Colt "borrowed" for their SAA, was the breech face recoil plate due to peening issues. Smart Russkies.  ;)

FWIW, the first inside lubed metallic ctg. was the .50 Springfield Carbine round, better known today as the 56-50 Spencer and that was in 1865 according to Roy Marcot.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on January 07, 2019, 10:22:56 AM
Howdy Fox Creek Kid

I was pretty careful not to mention where the lube was when I wrote about the 44 Russian cartridge. Probably because you had probably corrected me once before.

I have most of a box of Remington (marked REM-UMC) 44 Russians, and a bag full of WRACo 44 Russians, along with a few other singletons picked up along the way.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cartridges/44%20Russian%20Ammo_zpsiel3exn2.jpg)




Sorry this photo is not so well focused. The WRACo round is on the left, the REM-UMC on the right.

Both appear to me to be inside lubricated.

But I'm sure you're correct about the earlier rounds.

There are a couple of fired cases in the Remington box. They are clearly balloon head rounds.

(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/cartridges/44%20Russian%20WRACo%20left%20REM-UMC%20right_zpsoowowqyg.jpg)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cholla Hill Tirador on January 07, 2019, 10:27:06 AM
DJ thanks for all the info here, it's interesting and invaluable. I'd hazard a guess that give the way you deal with these subjects and going over ever tiny details of revolvers and cartridges, you must have an engineering background.

  CHT
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on January 07, 2019, 12:06:08 PM
My understanding is that the Russians requested the ammo change from .44 American (outsized lube bullet) to the inside lube "Russian" style very early within S&W's production for them, and the large number of arms they were ordering from S&W, Smith was happy to comply for the same reason.


S&W's first offering to the US Gov. was in the .44 (Henry) rim fire. These were rejected. The US Army wanted a center fire. So, in hopes of getting a USA contract, Smith devoloped what became known as the .44-100 "American" centerfire. It was believed that centerfire cases would be easier for Armorers to reload and save on cost to the Gov.
US orders never amounted to much, but Smith kept the American chambering available

I can't quot were this "understanding" of mine comes from off hand... but I believe it is disscused in the Neal & Jinks book.

My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on January 08, 2019, 01:20:55 AM
DJ thanks for all the info here, it's interesting and invaluable. I'd hazard a guess that give the way you deal with these subjects and going over ever tiny details of revolvers and cartridges, you must have an engineering background.

  CHT

Pretty much. No degree, just lots of work experience.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on January 13, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Gave Cimarron a call last week and was told that the only hold up was getting the ok from the ATF to bring them into the country..They figure they will be on the shelves by June starting with the 45colt  models coming out first,,Other calibers will follow sometime around Sept.
Asked about price and was told (around $1100)

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 13, 2019, 06:12:15 PM
Usually for a new Uberti model, Mike Harvey will send them an original, but I'm pretty darn sure he didn't this time!



Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Niederlander on January 13, 2019, 07:01:50 PM
Always loved that particular revolver!  Cottonwood Springs is right here in Nebraska!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on January 23, 2019, 08:56:37 AM
Unless I missed it somewhere I don't see the American Model at Cimarron's booth for the SHOT Show. Abilene, what gives?  ??? ???
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 23, 2019, 10:26:41 AM
Unless I missed it somewhere I don't see the American Model at Cimarron's booth for the SHOT Show. Abilene, what gives?  ??? ???

Beats me.  This is my 2nd year of not going to Shot Show, so I'm out of the loop on some stuff.  I see A.D.Texaz or Shootin' Steele at Texican Ranger matches and ask them.   :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tornado on January 23, 2019, 12:15:57 PM
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/saddle-up-them-ponies-and-visit-cimarron-firearms-at-the-2019-shot-show/#axzz5dSJeq57J (https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/saddle-up-them-ponies-and-visit-cimarron-firearms-at-the-2019-shot-show/#axzz5dSJeq57J)

This article mentions it:
Quote
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/saddle-up-them-ponies-and-visit-cimarron-firearms-at-the-2019-shot-show/#ixzz5dSKAXC8x
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Cimarron’s Model #3 for 2019 is the 1st Model American in 45 Colt, 44-40 and 44 Special, Colt & Russian. The Military marked Army model also has inspector marks and a cartouche. Comes in an 8” or 5” barrel. The Model #3 American can be purchased in a blued or nickel finish with case colored latch, trigger guard and hammer. A civilian model will be available as well. MSRP is $1,163.50
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on January 23, 2019, 10:46:53 PM
A nickel plated one would be sweet
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on May 12, 2019, 11:42:42 PM
A nickel plated one would be sweet

Well, here it is nickel plated AND engraved!!  ;D  ;)  Go to the 1:50 mark. As well he calls it a "Schofield", but it's the new American Model:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdewE9QHWzQ
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on May 13, 2019, 12:05:15 PM
From what I can see in the video... I'm very impressed with what has been done with this new S&W brake top revolver. I would feel much better about investing in this revolver now that I have seen this.
 I would not worry too much about it being called a 'Schofield", after all, many Americans call any and every large frame "type" S&W brake top revolver a "Schofield"! (bad on US)
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on May 23, 2019, 12:28:13 AM
More info:


Quote
Cimarron?s Model #3 for 2019 is the 1st Model American in 45 Colt, 44-40 and 44 Special, Colt & Russian. The Military marked Army model also has inspector marks and a cartouche. Comes in an 8? or 5? barrel. The Model #3 American can be purchased in a blued or nickel finish with case colored latch, trigger guard and hammer. A civilian model will be available as well. MSRP is $1,163.50.

https://www.ammoland.com/2019/01/saddle-up-them-ponies-and-visit-cimarron-firearms-at-the-2019-shot-show/#axzz5oirWxuHY
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Blair on May 23, 2019, 11:10:33 AM
FCK,

Do you know if the statement of being the "1st Model American" is in respect to the first model to be reproduced of this type S&W Revolver, or that they are actually reproducing a Model # 3 1st Model American?
Thanks!
My best,
 Blair
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on May 23, 2019, 11:24:44 AM
FCK,

Do you know if the statement of being the "1st Model American" is in respect to the first model to be reproduced of this type S&W Revolver, or that they are actually reproducing a Model # 3 1st Model American?
Thanks!
My best,
 Blair


Like all repros it is not going to be a perfect "clone" of an original I am sure. We will have to wait & see when one gets into the hands of a competent reviewer who can do a SxS with an original (Venturino, Chicoine, etc.). Regardless, it will be the ONLY clone of one ever made. Your only other option is buying/shooting an original.

This Uberti version does have the smaller trigger boss imitating the 1st Model American "flat bottom". Since Uberti doesn't use recoil plates on any clone that will be correct for this model as that didn't come into being until later per the Russians.

At least Cimarron/Uberti is trying to please us in this time of a dwindling CAS market that is a shell of what it was in 2000.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on June 06, 2019, 09:35:10 PM
I too, am looking forward to this coming out. I do want to point out one thing regarding the "purity" of the lengthening of the cylinder. There is a large majority of shooters out there who will never consider shooting black powder, so the decision to make it longer to accept today's rounds vs the ability to run on bp is good business, and allows us to shoot these guns today.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 16, 2019, 06:40:54 AM
So, we're now half way thru July, anyone seen one of these yet? ???
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on July 16, 2019, 09:55:13 AM
Last time I talked to one of the Cimarron guys, he told me it was probably going to be next year.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 16, 2019, 10:45:04 AM
Ok, gives my kids more time to raise the money so I don't have to pay for my own retirement present. ;D

Hey, I can dream can't I? ::)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on July 18, 2019, 10:42:48 PM
But that's what they said last year
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on August 20, 2019, 11:05:48 PM
Gave Cimarron a call last week and was told that the only hold up was getting the ok from the ATF to bring them into the country..They figure they will be on the shelves by June starting with the 45colt



Got my name on the list ...Still sitting here by the phone. :-\
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on October 05, 2019, 10:12:29 PM
ANNNNNNND ,,,still waiting.. :-\
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on October 16, 2019, 09:22:03 PM
Here she is!!  :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aSHgw7qNxA
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on October 16, 2019, 09:41:10 PM
Dang, at least wipe the fingerprints off the gun!   ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on October 17, 2019, 07:34:30 PM
That video is from March 2019,,,I talked to Cimarron and they said they would be here by June 2019,,Put my name on a list,,,Still waiting. :(
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on October 18, 2019, 02:05:30 AM
Just another 60 days   ??? ...I've been down that rabbit hole...

and another 60,  and another etc.   obviously they exist , Uberti would love to see the profit roll in as would Cimarron....

Probably sitting in limbo...betwixt  US customs  , Tariffs ,  and Feds Regulations  yada yada

I'd like one but my Jets have cooled some in the wait
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on October 18, 2019, 10:28:32 AM

Maybe with a 3 1/2 inch barrel and set up for Moon Clips.  Maybe.  Maybe not.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on October 18, 2019, 10:29:46 AM
Has anyone noticed that the original post was in October of 2018. I just checked the calendar and it is October of 2019. Good thing they aren't rushing this into production prematurely (smile).

With tongue planted firmly in cheek,
Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on October 18, 2019, 10:38:44 AM

 :o  CONSIDERING   :o  Considering NONE of Uberti's offerings based on the Schofield/S & W Top Breaks will play nice and share toys with BP or Subs ......................................
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on October 18, 2019, 07:23:47 PM
FWIW, a European on another forum handled one of these and shared that Uberti did not copy the original's rack & pinion ejection system, but rather opted to use their current Schofield system.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on December 01, 2019, 05:06:58 PM
What was the other forum? Fck
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Galloway on December 01, 2019, 10:47:41 PM
Thats not a deal breaker for me as long as its the right length. It appears so in the picks ive seen.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on December 12, 2019, 01:26:11 PM
Does anyone have an update of the release date of these revolvers?  Early next year?

I have to decide on this or possibly a USFA US made SAA?  One or the other but not both.

So any info from Cimarron?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on December 12, 2019, 04:37:28 PM
Get the US made USFA.

I fully admit my prejudice on this subject. I love the fit, finish and feel of the late production USFA guns. They are the equal of the best SAAs Colt ever produced.

YMMV,
Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on December 12, 2019, 08:06:14 PM
I emailed Val at Cimarron and here is the response:

"We are still waiting for the gun to pass the ATF drop test.  If it passes, and it should, it will be early to mid summer."

BTW, while I see the banner on their website says 45 Colt, 44-40, and 44 Russian / Spcl, I have noticed that there are no 44-40 currently on order.  Also, not many of the 5" models, so if someone wants one of those I'd suggest getting on the waiting list.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Long Johns Wolf on December 15, 2019, 02:58:39 AM
Life is not fair!
Just learnt that the first batch of seven (7) only Uberti S&W Americans - 8" barrel, .45 Colt cal. - arrived at the German importer's warehouse for distribution.
Long Johns Wolf
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on December 15, 2019, 02:30:50 PM
Well, hopefully we can find a german review on the american.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on December 15, 2019, 03:30:12 PM
I emailed Val at Cimarron and here is the response:

"We are still waiting for the gun to pass the ATF drop test.  If it passes, and it should, it will be early to mid summer."

BTW, while I see the banner on their website says 45 Colt, 44-40, and 44 Russian / Spcl, I have noticed that there are no 44-40 currently on order.  Also, not many of the 5" models, so if someone wants one of those I'd suggest getting on the waiting list.

Well just as a joke 'Just how the 'h$ll' high are they dropping these guns, that they still have not hit earth/ground since October 2018'?

On a more serious note, have the guns been failing the testing since Oct 2018?  What have they had to change on them and are they the same as originally advertised or as original Americans?  Did they have to add a load of safety features to past?

Just curious do not expect you to contact them.  I just would like to make that final decision soooon.

Dave T,
I appreciate your comments and remember our conversation back in '16 or so over on the USFA site.  While I truly would like a good American made single action, I would like some 'variety in the firearms I shoot and own, just for experience sake.  It does make the decision hard as could be.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: JollyJake on December 16, 2019, 04:46:29 PM
On the front of their product catalog for the new year  https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/cimarron-firearms-product-catalog.html  page 20  https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/pub/media/site/2020-Cimarron-Catalog-Final.pdf
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cole Younger on December 16, 2019, 11:42:43 PM
Where are the new Merwin's?  lolol
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on December 26, 2019, 07:16:38 PM
What was the other forum? Fck

http://smith-wessonforum.com/forum.php
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on December 26, 2019, 08:53:50 PM
I had a message from Jake MacReedy, old time poster here and top-break fan.  I thought it interesting and will pass on what he mentioned, that years ago Mike Harvey told him that if the ASM Schofields hadn't gone south, their next model was to be the American.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on December 28, 2019, 10:15:54 AM
I will back up what Abilene just said.  At least with this one, we know the quality will be good!

Jake, aka Ron Clark
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on December 30, 2019, 05:12:47 PM
For the "purists" out there, when they finally arrive, pick up an American in .44 Russian, and add a lanyard ring.  It will look like this photo from page 220 of Pate's book on the American Revolver (I highly recommend this book!).  Notice this Old Old/First Model Russian has a First Model American frame, the hammer interlock and a lanyard ring.

Regards,
Jake
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on January 06, 2020, 03:11:00 PM
VTI Gunparts had the lanyard ring from the Uberti 3rd Model Russian in stock, so I ordered one from them and received it today.  My name is on the list for one of the Americans, once they finally make it to our shores!  And I have my lanyard ring ready to install (sitting on the cover of Pate's great book on the American).
Jake
(https://i.imgur.com/SfEv0st.jpg)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on February 19, 2020, 11:47:35 AM
Called Cimarron today and was told the end of the year at the earliest. Still going through ATF process before any will be manufactured for the U.S.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on February 20, 2020, 07:24:00 PM
I'll be able to buy when I'm 30 at this point
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on February 21, 2020, 11:56:12 AM
30?! I'll be happy at this rate to see one by the time I turn 65!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on February 21, 2020, 06:29:18 PM

 ::)  And then there are some of us whom are old enough already that we really DON'T CARE   ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on February 21, 2020, 07:36:21 PM
Yeah, Coffinmaker probably carried an original when he was a kid.   :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on February 22, 2020, 12:06:21 AM
Whenever it comes out, it'll be nice. I shouldve really put in an order for a nickel plated one in .45 colt
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on February 22, 2020, 05:45:44 AM
by the time it gets here I too will considered an antique  :-\

If'n I was 30 I might could hold my horses,  at my age my patience is rarer than Unicorn farts !
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on February 22, 2020, 09:32:29 AM
Abilene said "Yeah, Coffinmaker probably carried an original when he was a kid."

Heck, I've still got an original, just want to be able to shoot one a little more regularly.

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on March 04, 2020, 03:52:37 PM
Been waiting 20 years for one...a few more months won't matter much to me!  When I added my name to the list at the first of the year, they told me it would be the end of the year before they showed up in the U.S.  Any way you look at it, I'll eventually have an early Model 3 in hand.

Just my $0.02 worth!
Jake
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on March 18, 2020, 10:16:53 PM
The way things are looking there may not be anyone left in Italy to make guns!!  :'(
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave Fox on April 27, 2020, 10:23:15 AM
...there's also a video on YouTube.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on April 27, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
...there's also a video on YouTube.

No link! Your being mean to the brotherhood. (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on April 27, 2020, 01:35:21 PM
The way things are looking there may not be anyone left in Italy to make guns!!  :'(

Considering the pandemic lockdown & annual August furlough Italian workers take , and US Customs
 I suspect  "end of the year" (2020) is even feasible.

One may have cool to their jets till  end of 2021 if then  :-\





Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on April 30, 2020, 03:28:15 PM
With this pandemic going on and Italy hit so hard we may have a disruption in regular models much less new and custom orders. I have a custom rifle on order that was said would be finished this spring but now with this pandemic I'm not holding my breath for when I ever see it.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on June 13, 2020, 08:45:51 PM
Cimarron has started a series of videos where Mike Harvey talks about his originals.  The first episode was about his McNelly Sharps carbine.  I posted that one in the BROW section.  The second episode he talks about his Texas Jack Omohundro American.  He mentions how the first sample from Uberti was "off".  I hadn't heard that story but it explains some of the delays.  He does not tell the story of how he acquired the gun, which is pretty interesting as well, but those of you waiting for the repro should enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJY_OdOzcZg
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: JollyJake on June 16, 2020, 05:18:04 AM
At or about the 7:45 mark Mr. Harvey Talks about his No. 3 American that belonged to Texas Jack. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svAkrE83lZU
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on June 16, 2020, 02:22:25 PM
For some reason I'm not getting any audio on those two videos. To bad as I was curious.

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on June 25, 2020, 05:19:31 PM
ANNNNNNND ,,,still waiting.. :-\

Gun will be on the shelves in June.......2019!!!!!!!

Had my name on the list ,,and it is been over a year ,,and still ain't heard from them!!!.
,,What's the hold up?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on June 26, 2020, 09:45:52 AM
For some unknown reason, a 150 year old design has been having problems passing a 'drop test' for import. Who would've thought. Also the pandemic has in all appearances disturbed the production of, well, everything in Italy. I also have one ordered, hopefully by the middle of next year? ???
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on June 26, 2020, 08:19:52 PM
For some unknown reason, a 150 year old design has been having problems passing a 'drop test' for import.

Well heck, 150 years ago they probably tried hard not to drop their pistolas. (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Trooper Smith on June 26, 2020, 09:00:18 PM
I to am eagerly awaiting the availability of the new No3 American and came across these images from the Uberti Italy Facebook page.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on June 27, 2020, 09:04:04 AM
Dang, that is one sweet looking young lady.  ;D  Will look right nice along side her granma I already own. Can't wait to get one in my hot little rheumatic hands.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: JollyJake on July 15, 2020, 07:24:15 PM
From Facebook https://www.facebook.com/cimarronfirearms/photos/a.402446839825174/3018497658220066/?type=3&theater(https://scontent.fict1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/107456109_3018497661553399_9028629065927898419_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=eKhgo1WWztMAX-whpHw&_nc_ht=scontent.fict1-1.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=19f4a7bcdd20f7b6d4a0d50384b5e477&oe=5F33D719)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on July 15, 2020, 09:15:45 PM
Glory be !   Have at um  :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on July 15, 2020, 09:23:45 PM
I hope they got more than 4 of them.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 16, 2020, 11:45:35 AM
Considering I ordered a .44 I hope they're not all .45s. ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on July 16, 2020, 09:50:48 PM
Sounds like some people are getting them now. Couple of guys in those comments said they got theirs
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 17, 2020, 08:55:20 AM
Not on Facebook so I'll have to get one of the kids to look it up for me to see the comments.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on July 17, 2020, 03:40:49 PM

 :)   Well well now    ;)

Those S&Ws could/would look righteous with the barrels cut back to that Under Lug and squared off.

Yepper!!  Right Dandy.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on July 17, 2020, 03:43:21 PM
I went on Facebook and looked for more detail.  But, the only thing is the 'above picture' and the same statement as above "they are finally in and past all the tests."

So no additional info and no listing of prices.  Went to Cimarron website yesterday and they are not listed as a Sale item with a pricing.  Just the same Banner announcement about them coming.

So does anyone have the final pricing for this firearm?  I think back in '18 or '19 the proposed price was $1,100.  Is that still true or do I need to just call Cimarron?  Do you think the distributors will get first shipments or do we have to order direct?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Galloway on July 17, 2020, 11:33:24 PM
And why exactly are they going out and making these new guns used???
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on July 18, 2020, 08:29:45 AM
And why exactly are they going out and making these new guns used???

I'll bet that is just a photo-op.  They might test fire one in a video, then slice off the firing pin to use it for their show gun.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on July 18, 2020, 11:32:20 AM
I'm gobsmacked! I was a complete doubting-Thomas and didn't think we would actually see these. Guess they fooled me. (smile)

Happy for those who want one.

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on July 18, 2020, 08:31:37 PM
Dave , this American was on a fast track compared to how long it took to get the '76 out.  Lots of folks were dubious about that!  :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on July 20, 2020, 06:27:07 AM
I was dubious of them coming sooner than next year....2021

What with our own WooHoo lockdown , Italy's woes with covid 19 ,  and customs delays.

 I don't know how many hit Cimarron's door, but I'm pretty confident the first batch was sold out  :-\

Looking forward to the reviews
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dirty Dick on July 20, 2020, 05:10:32 PM
In .44-40?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: willy on July 22, 2020, 12:12:42 AM
Ones is on gunbroker right now with one bid of $1175
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on July 22, 2020, 02:32:51 AM
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/874367240
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 23, 2020, 09:50:48 AM
Looks like that first one sold on only one bid, but they already have a second one listed.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on July 23, 2020, 02:18:29 PM
I ordered one today
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on July 23, 2020, 04:19:06 PM
USMR,

What type of timeframe did they give you?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on July 24, 2020, 07:07:52 AM
As soon as they get the money order they will ship in a couple days Two Wright Arms Co. 
I believe they said they had 1 left.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 28, 2020, 12:30:33 PM
Ok, there were four in the picture, it was said a couple of folks got theirs on Facebook, Two Wright Arms sold one at auction, appears to be selling one to U.S.M.R. and has one up on another auction. Those sold or available sounds like five different revolvers, so it looks like there were more than was in the picture. Now we just need a shooters report, wonder if any were sent on to the gun writers.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on July 28, 2020, 02:01:12 PM
I just got a peek at a current inventory, and they still show 10 8" .45's and one 5" .45 in stock, although they all are committed to backorders.

BTW, they are showing a blingy engraved nickled model on their Facebook page.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on July 28, 2020, 03:37:23 PM
Thanks, Abilene, I know the folks with the .45s will be glad to hear they got more than just the four we had seen. I'm just biding my time entertaining myself waiting on my 8" 44 Russian to show up. I realize the 44 Russians will probably be the last of them to show as the 45s and 44-40s will be the most popular among the competitive shooters and the ammo makers, but to me the 44 Russian just seemed to be right.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 03, 2020, 07:33:56 PM
....but to me the 44 Russian just seemed to be right.


As God intended it.  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on August 03, 2020, 07:53:55 PM
Amen!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 04, 2020, 10:13:19 AM

 :D  Pastafarians Unite!!!  The great Flying Spaghetti Monster also prefers a 44 Russian!!

Hide and Watch
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on August 04, 2020, 10:26:51 AM
Well I am not disagreeing with the last 4 posts but...

Mine will be a 44Spec but my intentions are to 'only' shoot 44Rus through it.  The option for the other 44 series, if desired, (probably not) will be there.  Just don't want to limit my options by buying the chambered 44Rus.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on August 04, 2020, 10:54:53 AM
There is no "Russian-only" chambering.  They are making them in 45 Colt, 44 Rus/Colt/Spcl, and 44wcf. 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on August 04, 2020, 02:33:01 PM
Thanks Abilene that is good to know.  I thought somewhere early in this thread that it was mentioned that a 44Rus chamber and a 44Spcl were going to be created.

Good 8" blue in 44Spcl for me.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on August 04, 2020, 03:41:36 PM

 :D  The only time I remember Cimarron/Uberti really stepping on their ... Ahem ... doing something silly is when they did some Open Tops actually chambered for 44 Colt.  Should not chamber 44 Spl.  Most Open Tops are chambered for 44 Special and only "marked" 44 Colt.

I don't shoot Suppository guns much anymore.  When I did However, I had a severe LUST for a pair of 3 1/2 inch barrel Schofield, modified to to run Moon Clips with 45 ACP.  Since I couldn't shoot a Schofield worth beans, I gave that idea smooth up.  Every now and then thought, I still have that thought (it hurts to think sometimes).

Hide and Watch
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on August 04, 2020, 03:44:06 PM
Kinda what I expected when I asked them for a 44 Russian, figured it would chamber everything up to 44 Special. Don't think the rims on the 44 Colt will work tho.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on August 04, 2020, 05:24:22 PM
 Don't be too sure.  I've got a Uberti #3 3rd Model Russian,  caliber marked "Cal. 44 S. & W. Russian"  and it will only chamber the Russian case.  I likes it.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on August 04, 2020, 07:45:37 PM
Righto!  Uberti does indeed chamber the Russian in .44 Russian (as they SHOULD!  :)  ) as well as .45 Colt.  I know where there are some nickled .44 Russian Russians in stock, if anyone is looking.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 05, 2020, 11:11:14 AM
I am now the proud owner of one of the newest Americans since 1959 when Smith &Wesson made one for Clint Walker.  It’s not an exact copy the most noticeable difference is the Schofield ejector release.  I won’t complain or nit-pick.  I’ve got one!
 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on August 05, 2020, 11:20:32 AM
Congrats, U.S.M.R., the rest of us are patiently (?) waiting. Let us know how she feels and shoots for you. So far yours would be the first shooting review. I know I can feel the difference between my original American and Schofield, didn't think it would be as noticeable as it is, so am curious how much of a difference there is between the replica American and Schofields.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 05, 2020, 11:38:09 PM
I am now the proud owner of one of the newest Americans since 1959 when Smith &Wesson made one for Clint Walker.  It’s not an exact copy the most noticeable difference is the Schofield ejector release.  I won’t complain or nit-pick.  I’ve got one!

We shall await your Nat Geo quality photos and measurements.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on August 06, 2020, 03:01:19 PM
Well as Coffinmaker stated, I own one of those 1872 Open Top that is strictly a 44Colt chamber.  A crimped 44Spl will go in but when I tried an empty new - resized 44Spl casing a good portion of the base did not seat.  Therefore, I was not going to chance-it.  Then about 3 years later I ran into several people stating that their OT's were 44Spl marked.  Well darn.  Oh well I only shoot 44Rus's in it anyways.

My comment earlier was also based on the fact that the Cimarron newer 44 Russian revolvers were offered in only 44Rus chambers (and others).  So I just took comments of (in 44Rus) as knowledgeable fact.

Unlike some here I have not order yet.  Waiting to head to LGS and see what their distributor final prices will be.  If caring them.  If not will have to order direct from Cimarron.

Can't wait for someone's personal review.  As stated by USMR and Fox Creek Kid, I don't expect an exact reproduction but close.  Glad that Mike Harvey sent the first ones back because Uberti used a Schofield grip shape.  That would have been a real deal breaker for me.  If you are making a First model it should look like a First Model not a hybrid for production simplicity.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 07, 2020, 04:48:36 PM
   New American weighs 2.72 lbs, my original weighs 2.60.  Not noticeably larger.  Shot it
today with mil. spec. .45 S&W at 15 yards.  A little high 2” to the left.  1 1/2 group, 2 two shot holes overlapping, the other two close by.  It wants to shoot.  I’m happy. The
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on August 08, 2020, 10:05:33 AM
U.S.M.R., sounds like one to ride the river with, the folks at Cimarron have done very well. Can't wait for the 44s to arrive. How are the grips compared to your original? Are they close in size and feel?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 08, 2020, 05:28:01 PM
Well Pathfinder the frame thickness is the same.  The length is the same.  Each grip panel is about 1/16” thicker.  Same as my Uberti and S&W Scohfield.  I like the thicker grip.  For what it’s worth my dark path of sin and ignorance is a well lit 4 lane freeway,you can find it no problem.  United States Mounted Rifleman riding into the sunset. The
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on August 09, 2020, 08:48:23 AM
U.S.M.R., thanks for the heads up on the grips. I also have both original American and Schofield, but for some unknown reason (according to the wife I'm just weird) the American always felt better in my hand. And while my Navy Arms Schofield is a nice piece, I have been really looking forward to the day the Americans came out. That and Forty Rod and I have been asking nicely for close to 25 years now. ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 09, 2020, 10:12:25 AM
I suppose the size of our hands has something to do with it.  Also it’s easier to remove a little wood than to put it on.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on August 10, 2020, 11:21:55 AM
U.S.M.R.,

Is the grip 'frame' shape and outline similar to the original American?  Did they get that sort-of straight up and down radius to the gripframe, as a whole, not talking about the grip thickness?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 10, 2020, 12:28:30 PM
Looks like my original.  It has the same “feeling”.   As close as I’ve measured it’s the same, other than grips themselves are slightly thicker. 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 11, 2020, 09:16:17 PM
SxS photos are needed, please.  :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 12, 2020, 04:57:05 AM
? I don’t know how.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on August 12, 2020, 08:27:26 AM
send me your photo...I'll gladly post them for you 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 12, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
More I don’t know how to do.  I just made the switch from the telegraph.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on August 12, 2020, 10:33:14 AM
LOL - U.S.M.R., don't feel bad. I'm right there with you on not understanding this computer-techno-internet stuff. I could type already andmy wife showed me how to use this dead, plastic mouse. Otherwise I'm lost.

I wanted to put a picture in my Avatar like other folks do, but first I had to learn it was called an "Avatar". Now that I know what to call it, I can't find anywhere that tells us ignorant souls how to put a picture there. Oh well, I'd have to have help finding then attaching (down loading?) the picture anyway. (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Snake River James on August 12, 2020, 01:14:17 PM
So how do you post pics on the forum now?  I haven't posted any in quite a while and can't find instructions anywhere.  Clicking on the pics icon wasn't helpful.  Do you have to use an imaging host?
I just got back from the range wringing out my new Uberti American and wanted to post about it.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on August 12, 2020, 06:45:41 PM
Imgur is good host
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on August 12, 2020, 07:43:04 PM
So how do you post pics on the forum now?  I haven't posted any in quite a while and can't find instructions anywhere.  Clicking on the pics icon wasn't helpful.  Do you have to use an imaging host?
I just got back from the range wringing out my new Uberti American and wanted to post about it.

Look at the lower left of your >  Post Reply

See this > + Attachments and other options .... scroll down to  >  Attach: click on [ choose file ]

select the photo from your photo files ..and Bobs your Uncle  :)

you might have to downsize the photo ....
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Snake River James on August 12, 2020, 10:33:54 PM
Hi Major.  Tried that before and it didn't seem to work.  Tried again after you response and got a message the file is too large.  Will play with the images tomorrow and post along with a range report.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Snake River James on August 13, 2020, 12:15:34 PM
Took the new Uberti to the range this morning. The pistol range was a little crowded so I didn't get to do a really thorough testing but still had some good results. The first target shows my smokeless .45 S&W load with a 225gr RFN bullet. Range was 10yds and the gun was shot one-handed. I did it this way to somewhat mimic CAS/SASS type shooting which I used to do. I was very pleased to see the gun shot to POA.
The second target, also at 10 yds, one-handed is my black powder .45 S&W load: a DD-ROA FLAT Big Lube bullet with my homemade bp lube over Goex FFFg, filling the case to give about 1/8" compression when the bullet is seated. These five shots were numbers 30-35 of a 50 round string I fired with no cleaning of the revolver. You will often hear that Uberti top breaks don't play well with black powder but I've found this combination to work pretty well. I had no problems of any kind with either load. I know 10 yds isn't much of a workout but as I said, the range was busy and I also wanted to somewhat duplicate a cowboy action scenario.

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on August 13, 2020, 01:13:44 PM
Excellent report!  And good to know that it can be done with BP.  Seems big-lube bullets are the key to that for those who have had success.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 13, 2020, 01:57:53 PM
Took the new Uberti to the range this morning. The pistol range was a little crowded so I didn't get to do a really thorough testing but still had some good results. The first target shows my smokeless .45 S&W load with a 225gr RFN bullet. Range was 10yds and the gun was shot one-handed. I did it this way to somewhat mimic CAS/SASS type shooting which I used to do. I was very pleased to see the gun shot to POA.
The second target, also at 10 yds, one-handed is my black powder .45 S&W load: a DD-ROA FLAT Big Lube bullet with my homemade bp lube over Goex FFFg, filling the case to give about 1/8" compression when the bullet is seated. These five shots were numbers 30-35 of a 50 round string I fired with no cleaning of the revolver. You will often hear that Uberti top breaks don't play well with black powder but I've found this combination to work pretty well. I had no problems of any kind with either load. I know 10 yds isn't much of a workout but as I said, the range was busy and I also wanted to somewhat duplicate a cowboy action scenario.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ebl8TmY.gif)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: paperchaser on September 05, 2020, 11:18:36 AM
Well as Coffinmaker stated, I own one of those 1872 Open Top that is strictly a 44Colt chamber.  A crimped 44Spl will go in but when I tried an empty new - resized 44Spl casing a good portion of the base did not seat.  Therefore, I was not going to chance-it.  Then about 3 years later I ran into several people stating that their OT's were 44Spl marked.  Well darn.  Oh well I only shoot 44Rus's in it anyways.

My comment earlier was also based on the fact that the Cimarron newer 44 Russian revolvers were offered in only 44Rus chambers (and others).  So I just took comments of (in 44Rus) as knowledgeable fact.


Wait now, let me digest this.  Are you saying that 44 Russian ammo can be "safely" fired in my Richards-Mason 44 Colt 8"?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Books OToole on September 05, 2020, 12:04:06 PM
Wait now, let me digest this.  Are you saying that 44 Russian ammo can be "safely" fired in my Richards-Mason 44 Colt 8"?

I have in mine.

Books
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on September 05, 2020, 03:01:28 PM
Same bullet diameter, .429". Russian case is just shorter than the .44 Colt case. You might be surprised to find that a .44 S&W Special, a little longer than the .44 Colt case, will also chamber in your R-M cylinder.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on September 06, 2020, 12:06:34 PM
I just skipped back through the postings and see that the R-M in question has a cylinder actually chambered for .44 Colt cartridges. Nice! My R-M's are marked .44 Colt, but the cylinders chamber .44 S&W Special cases. That being said, back to the .44 S&W Russian cartridge cases. I use them exclusively to replicate, as close as possible, the .44 Henry Flat central fire cartridges of the day. I also shoot the same loads in my 1860 Henry carbine with a modified carrier block. There's no way to work around the .429 bores, so the .44 S&W Russian cases get me as close as possible to the Henry Flat cartridge.     
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Books OToole on September 07, 2020, 09:11:09 AM
I just skipped back through the postings and see that the R-M in question has a cylinder actually chambered for .44 Colt cartridges. Nice! My R-M's are marked .44 Colt, but the cylinders chamber .44 S&W Special cases. That being said, back to the .44 S&W Russian cartridge cases. I use them exclusively to replicate, as close as possible, the .44 Henry Flat central fire cartridges of the day. I also shoot the same loads in my 1860 Henry carbine with a modified carrier block. There's no way to work around the .429 bores, so the .44 S&W Russian cases get me as close as possible to the Henry Flat cartridge.   

I started my .44 Russian odyssey when I acquired an original S&W DA 44.  Then I had a 66 tweaked to cycle .44 Russians.  I have subsequently acquired a RM conversion and a pair of Open Tops and a Henry; all firing Russians. 

Maybe in the future I'll be able to add an S&W American in .44 Russian.

Books
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on September 07, 2020, 12:25:53 PM
Already have my name on the 3B waiting list for an 8" in .44 Russian. Patience, patience, patience....
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on September 07, 2020, 12:57:18 PM
Johnson, I'm right there with you. As you say, "patience, patience, patience." ah hell, patience my a**, I'm gonna go shoot something.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on September 25, 2020, 10:48:37 AM
Cimarron has them for sale on their website.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on September 25, 2020, 05:23:06 PM
Books & Johnson,

Please explain how your are shooting 44 Russians in your Henrys? I would love to have a Henry chambered for the 44 Russian to do exactly what Johnson described, i.e. duplicate performance of the 44 Henry Flat.

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on September 26, 2020, 12:59:51 PM
You will need a modified carrier to handle the shorter cartridges. I sent my Henry carrier to Bill English at 'The Smith Shop' for conversion. At the time he did not have any Henry carriers in stock. Once you have a modified carrier in hand you will need to remove a small amount of metal from the modified carrier 'toggle' side of the Bolt face. Maybe a 1/16" flattened with a mill bastard file to allow the Bolt to travel past the modified bolt carrier 'toggle'. Books' 1866 carbine is chambered for .44 S&W Special so he had no problems with .44 S&W Russian brass. In my case my 1860 Henry carbine is chambered for .44-40.  The .44 S&W Russian cases will chamber and eject with no problems in the .44-40 chamber. What happens next is that the Russian cases will 'fire form' to the .44-40 chamber the first time you fire them. A slight tapered bulge will be noticeable. These now became dedicated cases for my Henry carbine conversion. When re-loading I do not resize these dedicated cases. A universal de-capping die is used. Cases are filled an 1/8" short of the case mouth with 2Fg and a .429"-200gr. RNFP cast bullet then seated. Bob's your Uncle!   
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on September 26, 2020, 02:04:39 PM
...What happens next is that the Russian cases will 'fire form' to the .44-40 chamber the first time you fire them. A slight tapered bulge will be noticeable. These now became dedicated cases for my Henry carbine conversion. When re-loading I do not resize these dedicated cases. A universal de-capping die is used. ...

I recall someone else in the past had reported shooting Russians in their .44wcf Henry.  Some folks are going "oh nooo!  dangerous!" but he had no problem.  I was wondering about the resizing / reloading part.  Dedicated brass makes sense.   What crimp die?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on September 26, 2020, 04:04:59 PM
An 1860 or an 1866 chambered for 44 Special would be slicker than puppy poop on a freshly mopped tile floor! (smile)

Dave
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on September 27, 2020, 01:26:03 PM
I modified a Lee .44 Russian crimp die using a die grinder and stone to 'flare' the die opening to except the 'bulged' brass. Dies are available from the Lee site separately. My dedicated 'Russian Henry' set includes a .44 Russian shell holder, a universal de-capping die, a universal case mouth expander die and the 'flared' .44 Russian crimp die. The universal de-capping and case mouth flare dies come in handy for other projects.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on September 27, 2020, 02:47:50 PM

 :)  Hi Guys   ;)

I have been frustrated with Uberti for years.  Way back, Uberti actually made some 1860 Henry Rifles in 44 Special.  I even had one in my hands for an action job.  I tried by best to buy it.  Guy had no sense of humor.  Wouldn't budge.

Ergo, my solution for the Henry has been guns chambered in 45 Colt.  Then I run a Smith Shop carrier for C45S brass.  Works a treat.  Real close ballistically to 44 Henry Flat.  Was never a fan of running 44 russian brass in a 44-40 chamber.  Can be done.  Has been done.  Not my favorite flavor.  Most in the Gun Plumbing business would discourage this practice.  Case rupture is a very real possibility.

Stay Well and Be of Good Cheer
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on September 28, 2020, 12:40:05 PM
I am familiar with the .45CS conversion carrier running in toggle link rifles chambered for .45 Colt. Can you speak about 'blow-by'? Are the 45CS loads just as problematic?   Just for giggles I ran some .45 CS cases into my .44-40 dies thinking that might be a way around using .44 Russian brass. The .45CS took the .44-40 taper just fine but created a 'belt' at the case web just above the rim. Turning the 'belt' down to allow for chambering was a thought, but I opted to continue with my dedicated .44 Russian cases.   To date the blackpowder fire formed Starline cases have not ruptured or split at the case mouth. The original 250 cases I started with are still running fine after two years regular use and a box plus will be put to work this weekend at the Bergers second Saturday monthly match.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tascosa Joe on September 30, 2020, 04:49:23 PM
I have a .44 Spl 66 that 3B tweaked the extractor and it handles .44 Colt  like a breeze.  It holds 15.  Duplicating the .44 Henry Flat and .46 RF Remington was my reasoning behind lobbying for the .45 CB Spl to be allowed by NCOWS.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: reno on October 01, 2020, 10:30:32 AM
Just wondering as I see 4 or 5 dealers selling Cimarron's American Model on auction sights, all in 45 Colt, from $998 to $1178 and dealer price is $921 and I am on the list for a 44 S&W or Spl. and find it strange that Cimarron is known for saying their firearms are like the originals, and they are, and the first caliber they come with is the 45 Colt instead of a 44 caliber as the originals. I have dealt with Cimarron for many years, and now find it hard to find a Conversion straight from them in 44 Colt. It's just I have never seen and we all know that there never was an S&W American, 73, or 66 Winchester in 45 Colt caliber. , and none of the rifles were in 44 S&W for that matter, only 44 Rimfire and 44/40 WCF.  I have seen in the past years everyone is going to the 45 cal. and understand why. Just wondering why we in CAS are not staying closer to the original calibers and I know they are a little harder to reload and I hope I did not unset any 45 cal. shooters just my thoughts. I shoot many 45 SAAs myself.
Thanks
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on October 01, 2020, 11:45:54 AM
Reno, it is just as you notice, strictly a business decision.  .45 Colt and .357 guns outsell all others by a large margin.  Those of us who want something in the original caliber (or close) are in the minority.  Even after Cimarron starts getting in .44's they will always have lots more .45's on order.  Same with rifles.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on October 01, 2020, 12:52:43 PM
Reno,

You have stated the difference between NCOWS and the SASS groups.  When I joined NCOWS in 1998 it was for the authenticity desire.  Before that I shot CAS locally and worked towards authenticity of the era.  At the end of my shooting I was a member shooting in the Originals group, being the 2nd member to sign/join up after the 3 originators.

I used firearms that represented originals, original 1873 rifle but an EMF SAA 1873 and then a Cimarron OM 1873 all in 44/40.  Then a 1866 rifle (44/40 because 44Spcl was not available in 2001) and an 1872 OT (44RUS).  Now, even though I do not know a dealer to get a lower pricing, I still will get an American in 44SPCL firing 44RUS.  Back at my first NCOWS Nationals several members I talked with all had a wish for this particular Model for its' uniqueness and looks.

What Abilene has stated is what I have observed from the comments on several sites.  What is easy to shoot fast with light recoil.  So 38's and 45's have become the most popular and sometime the only caliber options from manufactures.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Niederlander on October 01, 2020, 01:35:56 PM
I've often wondered why the American Model wasn't reproduced much sooner.  When you look at photographs from the early '70's, it was "THE" big bore cartridge sixgun on the frontier, at least until the Colt SAA became available in large numbers.  It's too rich for my blood, but an American would pair perfectly with a Henry or '66.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tascosa Joe on October 01, 2020, 02:48:27 PM
Johnson Barr, the only way to get away from blow by with th 45 CS or any other .45 with BP is to anneal the cases.  I have annealed all of my .45 Schofield cases and some of my .44 Colt cases to slow up/stop the blow by. 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: reno on October 01, 2020, 06:03:33 PM
Maybe I am getting to old at 76 as I seem to like the older calibers, I like them all and have been in NCOWS a while # 810 and like everything about the sport and the people. Sure like the original firearms.
Thanks
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on October 01, 2020, 07:28:25 PM
Maybe I am getting to old at 76 as I seem to like the older calibers, I like them all and have been in NCOWS a while # 810 and like everything about the sport and the people. Sure like the original firearms.
Thanks

Just means you have good taste.   :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Crow Choker on October 03, 2020, 12:17:35 PM
I just skipped back through the postings and see that the R-M in question has a cylinder actually chambered for .44 Colt cartridges. Nice! My R-M's are marked .44 Colt, but the cylinders chamber .44 S&W Special cases. That being said, back to the .44 S&W Russian cartridge cases. I use them exclusively to replicate, as close as possible, the .44 Henry Flat central fire cartridges of the day. I also shoot the same loads in my 1860 Henry carbine with a modified carrier block. There's no way to work around the .429 bores, so the .44 S&W Russian cases get me as close as possible to the Henry Flat cartridge.   

Johnson Barr--The reason your R-M cylinder/and or frame is marked 44 Colt, but will chamber 44 Special is because at one time Uberti made them that way. Back in 2007 when I was contemplating buying a Open Top and Win Model 66 in 44 Special, one of Cimarron's main guys (can't recall his name, he's still there I believe) advised me that the Open Tops and Richards II and R-M revolvers were marked 44 Colt, but would chamber 44 Specials. This was due to some of the "period correct" crowd wanting to shoot 44 Specials, but didn't want 44 Spec stamped on the revolver. How dare they!!!  He advised that the revolvers' of course could handle of the the shorter length brass 44 Colts with ease. Bought both the OT and 66, OT was marked 44 Colt, but chambered the 44 Spec with ease.

 Around a year later in late 2008, I bought a Cimarron Uberti Richards II and it was stamped 44 Special, as is a Richards-Mason I bought 3-4 years ago. I don't know when Uberti started and stopped this practice, I know it was stopped sometime between summer 2007 and Dec 2008. Initially I loaded and shot only Black powder rounds in 44 Colt Caliber and loaded Specials with smokeless for identity ease. After a while I just loaded and shot only 44 Colts with Black, still pretty much only do, shooting Specials in a Ruger Super Blkhawk and Marlin 1894 Cowboy lever gun chambered in 44 Mag. Those specials are marked on the box Ruger and Marlin only. I occasionally will load some mild 44 Spec with smokeless and shoot them in either my OT, Richards II, or RM (all chambered in 44 Spec.), even loaded some 44 Spec with black, but didn't see any advantage over the black loaded 44 Colts (25.0 grains FF Colt and 27.0 grains FF Special).

 I've run both 44 Colts and Specials through the Uberti Win 66 lever gun. Even though its chambered and stamped 44 Spec, I have no problems with the 44 Colts. Have yet had any feeding or ejection problems. Note: I don't try to slam the tube full of rounds through the action like it was a semi-auto. I can lever them through pretty fast with no problem. I did smooth things up sometime after I shot alot of rounds through it, it's a slick shooter, all stock. If I want a mad moment, I'll load up one of my AR's, Mini14 in 5.56mm, M1 Garands 30/06, or one of my Remington 81 rifles in 300 Savage and spray and pray to get those kicks. Now that's centerfire fast shooting.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Ridge Runner on October 07, 2020, 06:47:02 PM
Just started following this.  I am assuming that due to the multiple chamberings being offered, the cylinder will be the same length for all, and not have the offset as on the originals that helped to eliminate fouling?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on October 07, 2020, 06:51:28 PM
'fraid so.

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on October 08, 2020, 09:43:46 AM

 :) Johnson Barr   ;)

Tascosa Joe is absolutely correct-a-mundo.  Straight Wall pistol cartridge cases DO NOT expand enough to seal the chamber against Gun Gas.  It's that simple.  Then add the manufacturer's propensity for slightly oversize chamber dimensions and PRESTO!! Blow-By.

The fix for Blow-By is annealing.  45 Colt, 45 Schofield, Cowboy 45 Special, 44 Spl, 44 Colt, 44 Russian, all benefit from annealing.  The process doesn't just reduce Blow-By . . . .  it ELIMINATES it.  I have several 45 Rifles that are as clean after 7 or 8 matches as a 44 WCF or 38 WCF.  It is boring, time consuming and a nuisance, but well worth the time spent.
 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on October 11, 2020, 10:44:44 AM
Oh well, with everything going on on the political front I broke down and ordered an American in 45 caliber. I know, I know, blasphemy. :-[ Plan on shooting Schofield rounds thru it next to my Schofield. Still have the 44 on order, but checked with Cimarron on Friday and they said they didn't expect any 44s till after the new year. By then, if God forbid the socialists should win  :o, we may not even get to see them. So I at least have an American on it's way; after waiting for around 25 years for them to be made I'm going to enjoy it while I can.  :D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on October 11, 2020, 01:01:36 PM
My feelings exactly. I really enjoy mine.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on October 11, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Well then, if annealing is the solution, my kind sir. Would you please advise via this thread a 'how it's done' successful method of doing such magic? 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on October 11, 2020, 02:16:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf6rYqtRrGY
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on October 11, 2020, 06:26:50 PM
Get a Lee Melter

a small bag of fine playground sand

A lyman digital lead thermometer

Fill the Melter 3/4 full of sand.  Turn the knob to 8.5.  Heat sand to 800 degrees.  Stick cases neck down in sand for 5 seconds or so. Thicker cases may take longer.  Drop case in water bucket.

Work your way around in the sand so you never use the same place twice in a row.  Works great. 

 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on October 12, 2020, 01:30:38 PM
Case mouth achieving 800 degrees F from 5 seconds does the trick?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on October 12, 2020, 06:10:01 PM
You adjust your time as needed, but it does not take much, remember your heating the brass both inside and outside,  as opposed to an external flame.  You do NOT need to heat the brass cherry red, just enough that you see a slight discoloration after cleaning is what you're looking for.  I use this on 10.4x47r Italian brass, which gets worked EXTREMELY hard, and have not lost a case since trying it. 

I know, it sounds too simple.  A BPCR Silhouette shooter described it to me.  You are relieving stress and preventing work hardening the brass.  improves flexibility in the metal structure.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: reno on October 25, 2020, 02:23:56 PM
USMR, and SRJ have you seen any draw backs to your #3 Americans?
thanks
Reno




Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on October 26, 2020, 08:46:39 AM
Ok, just picked up my new American. Haven't had a chance to fire it yet, but overall it looks to be the best replica yet. The only markings visible on it are the address on the top of the barrel and the caliber (45 Colt) on the left side of the barrel, oh and the serial number on the butt. There is also a US on the top of the barrel right where it should be, but no oil hole. The remainder of the markings, model name & number and the proof marks are all concealed under the grips, out of sight. I've also dug out a pair of old ivory grips from Tombstone grips I had bought with the thought of fitting to my original and will be trying to fit them to it. The grips are very close and should require very minimal fitting, all of the edges are over by no more than 1/8" and no edge is shy of the metal. I'll try to get some pics posted over the next couple of days.

Out of curiosity, mine is serial number CS00017, I had thought it would have been higher by now. I know there were backorders and I've seen a couple of runs go thru Gunbroker, how are your numbers? Just say above or below if you don't want to list the number.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on October 26, 2020, 10:10:59 AM
 Congrats Pathfinder. Reno the fit and finish is excellent, action is smooth and shoots well. While not an exact copy I find nothing to complain about. I’m happy to have it.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on October 26, 2020, 04:18:04 PM
Mine is F19xxx numbered in with my Russian and Schofield. Yes I would like one in .44 but as they say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And let us not forget on this date in 1881 was the gunfight at the O.K. Corral where some people believe that Wyatt probably carried an American
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The Pathfinder on October 26, 2020, 04:54:09 PM
Weird, I wonder why the serial number change?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on October 26, 2020, 05:48:58 PM
Sounds like maybe U.S.M.R.'s s/n is just a continuation of the top-break S&W numbers.  Did they intend to switch to the new s/n prefix and just got a late start?  Interesting.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on October 27, 2020, 11:54:10 AM
Interesting thought. Get American in.44 get.38 Schofield cylinder chamber it for.44 American fiddle with bullet diameter a little put screw in ejector housing drill oil hole and you have early American.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Snake River James on November 07, 2020, 11:12:09 AM
Reno, I can't say that I've seen any real drawbacks but I can offer a few observations now that I've had several opportunities to shoot it.  I'll start by saying that I have or have had at least one example of every S&W No.3 repro that Uberti makes and have shot them extensively in CAS and informally, so I have a pretty good background for comparison.  The American is somewhat muzzle heavy with the 8" barrel and the grip configuration makes it less handy to me than say, a New Model No. 3 which is my favorite Smith model for CAS.  That said, I don't consider it to be unwieldy, but it won't handle like an SAA.  The gun shoots to point of aim, is accurate and I've had no significant problems with it at all.  It runs ok with black powder using Big Lube bullets.  The only issue I have with the gun is I feel the fitting could have been a little better.  There is some very slight rotational play in the cylinder in all positions.  While not excessive, almost all the other Uberti No. 3s I have virtually no cylinder play at all.  The fit of the barrel/frame match up could also be a little tighter; there is very slight side to side play even with the latch fully engaged.  Again its not excessive but not as tight as my other Uberti Smiths nor as tight as my two original Smith & Wessons (a NM No. 3 and a .44 DA).  The action pivots open more easily than I would like even with the pivot pin/screw tightened all the way.  I like my top breaks to have a little resistance and not just fall open completely of their own weight.  For example, I have a recent Uberti New Model No. 3 from Taylor's that can be tightened to give this slight resistance but the American will quickly fall open by itself upon lifting the catch if you let it and the pivot cannot be further tightened.

I doubt every Uberti American displays these quirks just as my other Uberti No. 3s don't but they are present on my gun.  Not deal breakers, just some minor things that could have/should have been done a little better on a gun in this price range.  I really do like this gun.  It's a good shooter and I like it much better than the Uberti Russian I used to have.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: reno on November 08, 2020, 06:07:25 AM
Thanks SRJ, for the great information and thoughts on the revolver. I have had my name on the list at Cimarron for a long time, but I will wait for the 44 cal. and at $920.00 it will be the last time I spend that much for a Uberti revolver, and at 76 years old I just hope the revolver gets here before I ride off into the sunset.
Reno
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on November 23, 2020, 04:31:46 PM
It sure would be nice if a new owner could take detailed and close up photos of one and post them here. I don't know of any pro gun reviewer who has reviewed one yet.  ???
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: MMA10mm on February 10, 2021, 12:29:11 PM
Hello in the Camp! 

Even though you boys don’t hear/see me much, trust me, I’m still making eye tracks over your experienced and knowledgeable writings! 

I just had to jump on and ask U.S.M.R., and any others with input, about this post:

Interesting thought. Get American in.44 get.38 Schofield cylinder chamber it for.44 American fiddle with bullet diameter a little put screw in ejector housing drill oil hole and you have early American.

Is the reason for a .38 Schofield cylinder, because it is shorter from extractor to cylinder face, thus allowing for a longer ejector housing and thereby improving protection when using black powder?

And can someone point me to “the oil hole?” (Keep it clean, cowboys.  ;D ). I like pictures.  Saves me from finding someone who can read...  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 11, 2021, 09:57:04 AM
The reason for the .38 Special cylinder is because it could be rechambered to .44 American. The oil hole is on the bottom of the ejector housing and was for oiling the ejector. The screw is on the side and held the ejector in place. My post was a thought if you wanted an American as authentic as you could do.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: ndnchf on February 13, 2021, 06:20:04 AM
It really is a shame they didn't just make them for the .44 S&W American in the first place. It is easy enough to make from .41 magnum brass. I have a Remington rolling block that shoots it quite well.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The original bad bob on February 19, 2021, 12:50:49 PM
https://pasteboard.co/JP78LaT.jpg

I have had a Cimarron No3 first model American for a few months.. I have fired approx 500 rds through it.. I really like this pistol.

Very fine sights ( more so than a first gen Colt saa) mine shoots a little low , but windage is on the money... I have even carried mine on the streets of Tombstone.. although in a back pack  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on April 13, 2021, 02:45:18 PM
 A little update on Uberti's American production.  Cimarron's latest inventory listing for dealers indicates that they received 5" models in 44-40 and 44 Spcl, as well as more 8" 45's.  Those 44's may all be spoken for with backorders, I don't know, but at least the Italians are starting to make them.

There were a variety of other guns that came in from Uberti, so hopefully they are back to work in Italy.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on April 15, 2021, 01:53:06 PM
Thanks for the update, Dave!  Hope the 8" .44's come in soon.
Jake, aka Ron
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The original bad bob on May 21, 2021, 02:00:38 PM
Abilene , do you know if Cimarron will off this model in nickel?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on May 21, 2021, 03:06:44 PM
Hi Bob.  I'm guessing they probably will bring in a few in nickle, since they do so with the Schofield and Russian.  And their inventory spreadsheet does have a Nickled column for the American.  Those would be nickled by Uberti and no telling when they might get any.  However, unless it has changed you can special order pretty much any gun  in nickle, and they send the gun to Ford Plating in Florida.   It does add a few months of waiting and special orders require 50% deposit.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: The original bad bob on May 22, 2021, 10:21:02 AM
Thank you Abilene  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on June 04, 2021, 06:09:35 AM
Quite a few showing up on GB, some with prices in the 900s.  The 5" looks very attractive in that configuration.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on June 04, 2021, 08:31:13 PM
Quite a few showing up on GB, some with prices in the 900s.  The 5" looks very attractive in that configuration.

Owning Schofields in both the 5" and 7" versions, the 5" is so much better balanced, both weight wise and visually.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on August 14, 2021, 01:15:16 PM
There’s an article on Cimarron’s American in the new issue of Guns Of The West.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 14, 2021, 03:44:12 PM
There’s an article on Cimarron’s American in the new issue of Guns Of The West.

And here also:

https://gunsmagazine.com/guns/cimarron-sw-no-3-american/
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on August 15, 2021, 06:30:37 PM
GOTW's article was good, in fact the entire issue is much improved!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on August 16, 2021, 01:43:08 AM
I was particular interested in the Avenging Angel  piece, "Brigham Young & the Crossdraw Kid".
Seems to me I have some knowledge and history in that area  ;D
 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cliff Fendley on August 19, 2021, 07:41:40 AM
Hi Bob.  I'm guessing they probably will bring in a few in nickle, since they do so with the Schofield and Russian.  And their inventory spreadsheet does have a Nickled column for the American.  Those would be nickled by Uberti and no telling when they might get any.  However, unless it has changed you can special order pretty much any gun  in nickle, and they send the gun to Ford Plating in Florida.   It does add a few months of waiting and special orders require 50% deposit.

Way better quality finish than nickel from Uberti. I have some Cimarron custom order Model Ps with Fords nickel plating and they are beautiful finished guns. Side by side they are night and day difference from a standard Uberti nickel plated gun.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 19, 2021, 08:25:29 PM
FWIW, according to someone with a new one in .45 Colt the cylinder length is 1.554".
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on October 07, 2021, 08:36:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdFzkIWfsHc
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on December 21, 2021, 05:53:40 PM
Cimarron now has 5" ones in .44 Colt on their website. I didn't know they were making them in .44 Colt.  ???

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/model-3-american-1st-model-5-44-colt.html
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on December 21, 2021, 06:55:13 PM
Hmm, the page at that link has no description nor picture, just the title of the model, which is model number CA8664.  When I look up that model number on an inventory list, the description is "Mdl No. 3 American, 1st Model 5" 44RUS/CLT/S&W"

Perhaps the gun is chambered for the Special but marked Colt, like some of the Opentops used to be?  Only thing I know for sure is that Cimarron's website has been a mess for some time (IMO) and it's hard to find anything, plus lots of stuff missing.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: MMA10mm on January 11, 2022, 10:35:49 AM
Has an 8” blued 44 (straight-wall, not 44-40WCF) been released yet?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Drydock on January 11, 2022, 11:43:22 AM
 Yes, and went fast.  Waiting on the next shipment.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on January 12, 2022, 10:50:41 AM
I've been on the waiting list at Cimarron since December, 2019 for an 8" American in .44 Special/Russian.  Hope fully more will come in soon.
Ron
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on February 26, 2022, 07:52:19 AM
I won this one in an online auction yesterday (not GunBroker) which was a gun store liquidation.
Gun was listed as new but no box.

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on February 26, 2022, 09:23:14 AM
That is sweet!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Dave T on February 27, 2022, 12:26:19 PM
I won this one in an online auction yesterday (not GunBroker) which was a gun store liquidation.
Gun was listed as new but no box.

Good for you but you just made most of the people here jealous. (smile)

Dave

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on March 24, 2022, 01:09:40 AM
      Greetings!

   Stopping off at JAX Outdoors in Loveland CO to harass the Inmates, I strangely found myself in the Firearms Dept. In the glass case was an Uberti #3 American with a 5" barrel, and chambered for the .45Colt.
   I was permitted to briefly fondle it: beefy, yet wonderfully balanced; not too offended by the chambering ( Uberti is forgiven for not chambering it in the .44S&WA ); points very well.
   Hmmm. What can I sell...?

                    MTM
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on March 24, 2022, 10:50:46 AM
Yup, the 5" and 3" models of the S&Ws really balance nice in the hand.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on March 25, 2022, 02:30:18 AM
      Greetings!

   Stopping off at JAX Outdoors, Part 2... It came home with me. More to come. I truly am hopeless.

                   MTM
 

                 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on March 25, 2022, 06:40:13 AM
 Your Membership and card are assured,
    https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=63100.0
Welcome to the collective, meetings & attendance by your own additions, Resistance Is Futile
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on April 01, 2022, 12:58:04 AM
      Greetings!

   "Stopping Off at JAX Outdoors, Part III"... Well, I shot the No.3 OM .45 with a box of .45Colt handloads: in spite of a rough & creepy trigger pull, I was pulling off 2-1/2" groups at 25yds at the local indoor range, hitting just over the sights. The handload consisted of the LEE 454-255 from a batch that Dad had casted up a few years ago ( don't know the BHN, will test ), 7.8gr Alliant Unique, CCI #300 caps, misc brass, with 1.591" OAL.
   Generally, my "Go-To" .45Colt cast bullets are the Ideal / Lyman #454190, and the NEI #454-230HB, the last one being my favorite. Although this load performed well, I'm inclined to do a .45S&W handload based on the NEI bullet, 100 of which I casted this late afternoon, and the only one box of Black Hills .45Schofield brass that I have. For some reason, I'm also entertaining the thought of trimming some .45Colt brass to .45S&W length ( ".45Colt Govt." ), to try in this revolver, as well as my old Navy Arms .45Colt / 7" Schofield, which I might add, also shot very well with the LEE 454-255 handloads. We shall see...

                      M.T.M.
                    3-31-22
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on April 01, 2022, 06:39:54 AM
Several years ago, I got a #3 NM it has had a steady diet of 45 Schofield.
At first OEM Black Hills, then my hand loads.
I don't recall if I've ever used 45 Colt in it  :-\
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Pettifogger on April 04, 2022, 10:38:51 AM
Don't know why but the 5" .44-40 Americans seem to be readily available.  I have seen several of them for sale at gun shows, on-line and a couple in LGS.  Nothing else, just 5" .44-40s.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on April 04, 2022, 04:25:14 PM
The 5" barrels make the gun feel SO much better balanced in the hand. I love em.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on April 04, 2022, 07:30:00 PM
Just an update but the one I got marked .44 COLT chambers .44 Russian and Special just fine.  5 inch barrel is great but I still want and 8 inch.   ::)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: MJN77 on April 14, 2022, 04:30:21 PM
I have an 8 inch .45 caliber american and I just ordered a 5 inch .44 colt to go with it. Does anybody know who if anyone sells fake ivory grips for this revolver?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: nativeshootist on April 14, 2022, 10:40:40 PM
I have an 8 inch .45 caliber american and I just ordered a 5 inch .44 colt to go with it. Does anybody know who if anyone sells fake ivory grips for this revolver?

On Gripmaker's site, he has a chart on guns he does his fake ivory guns and a s&w american is one of them.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: MJN77 on April 15, 2022, 05:58:15 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: MJN77 on April 21, 2022, 08:52:16 AM
Just to add to my question about fake ivory grips, I have found out that Tombstone grips has them and Arizona grips on ebay (which I highly recommend) is going to have some available for this model soon.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on May 25, 2022, 10:35:10 PM
      Greetings, All!

   Over the span of two evenings, I took a double-handful of mixed head stamp  .45Colt's brass ( Just shy of 100 pcs. ), and cut them down to 1.095", the same length as my sample box of Starline .45 S&W Schofield brass. I then annealed the case mouths, and ran them through my old Hornady Titanium Nitride .45 Auto / .45 Long Colt 3 Die Set in my bid to create ".45 Colt's Government" cartridges for my OM #3.
   With a Reloading Manual starting charge of Alliant Unique ( 5.4gr. ) using my RCBS Little Dandy + #12 bushing, I capped half with CCI #300 Lg Pistol Primers, the other half with S&B Lg Pistol Primers recently acquired at Cabela's. These were corked with NEI #323A bullets ( .454-230HB ) that I had cast to a BHN-14. Crimp was light, just removing the flare, and gently pressing the case mouth into the bullet ogive, giving 1.404" OAL...
   Thus, I recreated the ".45 Colt's Govt." cartridge, in an effort to give myself not only a slightly more economical load, but also one that, by virtue of its shorter length, might eject and clear the cylinder a bit more freely from my Cimarron Old Model #3 Americans' cylinder. Which they almost always did.
   What they did do well was shoot rather accurately, neck-in-neck with my .45 Colt reloads in my previous post, about two and a half to three inches at 25yds, when my eyeballs were screwed in just right. Also, I was unable to discern any performance difference between the two brands of primers, neither was one fired primer materially different appearing from the other. Nonetheless, I would encourage you to seek out Published Reloading Data for S&B Primers.
   I'd say that they were a success! The biggest pain was cutting the .45 Colt's brass down, for the sometimes benefit of ejecting and clearing of fired cases from the cylinder. The simpler solution: buy a bag of Starline .45 S&W Schofield brass!

               M.T.M.
              5-25-22
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on June 09, 2022, 12:42:20 PM
I am beginning to lose faith in an 8" .44 Colt/Russian chambering. I can forgive them for releasing the .45 Colt version first in order to theoretically make more sales, but 44-40, really?  ::) 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on June 10, 2022, 12:28:43 PM
Fox Creek if you could find an American in.44-40 I would think that you could have a cylinder from a .44 Russian fitted.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on June 10, 2022, 02:24:58 PM
I'm with ya, Fox Creek!  Been on the waiting list for over two years to get an 8" .44Russian/Colt/Special!
Jake
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Graveyard Jack on July 12, 2022, 08:57:00 PM
I decided not to hold out on a .44 American and got the 8" .45Colt. I may be tempted to get a 5" .44. Were I to add another, I'd probably rather have a 5" Schofield, as it's my favorite variant.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/006b.jpg)

Followed closely by the New Model .44Spl.

(https://photos.imageevent.com/newfrontier45/sixgunsvi/large/013b.jpg)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on July 24, 2022, 12:42:02 AM
      Greetings, All!

   I've noticed that the bottom of the grip frame on my OM #3 has a screw in it, as if it was a filler screw for a lanyard ring... If that's the case, has someone tried to mount one?

                         M.T.Marfield
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: paperchaser on August 04, 2022, 04:40:41 PM
Well, talked with Cimarron today and have frankly decided to probably settle for a 5" in .44 special. They told me I could use 44 Russian; 44Colt AND 44 Special.  So I am now on that particular waiting list.  Ten months if lucky
Gee, maybe I should buy lottery tickets instead. LOL  :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Graveyard Jack on August 04, 2022, 11:21:45 PM
So they are coming, guess I need to be prepared.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on August 05, 2022, 04:05:35 PM
Looking for an 8" barrel in any caliber.  Have been on the list for an 8" .44 since December, 2019.
Jake
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on August 05, 2022, 04:24:36 PM
Looking for an 8" barrel in any caliber.  Have been on the list for an 8" .44 since December, 2019.
Jake
Jake, I think they must have lost that list!  Maybe you should call again.  :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Graveyard Jack on August 06, 2022, 11:53:44 AM
Looking for an 8" barrel in any caliber.  Have been on the list for an 8" .44 since December, 2019.
Jake
Only see one 8" on Gunbroker. Now it's all 5" .44's.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/939343172
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Old No7 on August 23, 2022, 02:22:46 PM
I saw -- and got to handle -- a new Cimarron 5-inch American in .45 Colt at a shop earlier today.  It felt great!  And I had just told the clerk "how much better it handled" than the 7-inch Schofield version that I have in .38 Spcl -- when here comes the shop's big and burly gunsmith; and he quickly draws, snaps open, and empties rounds from a 3" Schofield (also in .45). Then he says "Here, try this one!" and lays it in my eager hands.

The dude -- easily 1.5 times as big as me -- carries a Schofield for personal defense!

It was a beauty for sure!  And I'll admit, I did like the way that it handled.

When the clerk asked "Is that all you carry?" his reply was classic -- "Yup, this is just so I have time to get to my rifle!"  Which, of course, is a slicked up Marlin leveraction in .45 Colt.

The guy (and me too) was born in the wrong century I think.  ;)

Old No7
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on September 12, 2022, 10:23:00 AM
The HKS speedloaders for the Model 29 or Model 25 will work with the Schofields! I tried it and they worked just fine. Who knows, I might try to carry one of mine sometime!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on September 12, 2022, 07:20:02 PM

 :)  Ah Ha  ;)

Must admit, was a time not too long ago, I lusted after a pair of 3.5 inch Schofields.  Wanted 45s soz I could send 'em off for the Moon Clip modification. 

Youz guyz are giving me that particular LUST all over again.  I am NOT going back to (four letter wurd) just to afford 'em.  No sireee bob I ain't.

Mumble mumble sniffle (allergies)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DeaconKC on September 13, 2022, 11:01:11 AM
Mentioning 3 1/2" Schofield, I had to send mine in for a factory replacement on the cylinder. One of the chambers was so oversized it would split the fired case from the mouth almost to the web! But they stepped right up and are fixing it for me, just waiting for it to find it's way home from Texas. Makes a nice pair with my 5".
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on September 14, 2022, 09:59:42 AM

 :)  Zounds  ;)

Have a good friend her in the East.  Won just about everything there was to win in Classique Cowpatty with a pair of Schofield 3.5 inch 45s.  Finally had to give 'em up when they started exhibiting function problems.  Mid Match of course. 

I'm still starting to suffer that itch.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Roosterman on September 18, 2022, 03:39:52 PM
I'm holding out for  one in .44 American......
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on November 27, 2022, 12:38:58 PM
Is there any HARD news regarding the American Model in .44 Colt/Russian yet or just more of...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zyjLyBp64
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Jake MacReedy on February 01, 2023, 03:17:33 PM
Fox Creek, the last I heard, they had loaded the .44 Colt/Russian Americans with 8" barrels on the back of their rainbow-colored unicorns and the pack train was on its way!.....at least that's what I heard!
....been waiting on one of these for years now!!!
Jake
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on July 24, 2023, 03:58:19 PM
Does anyone have any new/updated info on the American in 44Spec hitting the USA anytime?

Thanks
BRS
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: missourijack on August 28, 2023, 01:19:40 PM
Everyone is waiting for the .44 's to land. I want one in nickel. We shall see.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on October 12, 2023, 03:47:15 PM
Definitely very glad I got my 8” American in.45 Colt when I did. Waiting for one in.44 could be a while. Mine goes nicely with my Sharps and Trapdoors and my 76 in 45-75. I would like one in .44 but I’m happy with what I have.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on October 12, 2023, 07:44:36 PM
How many members here have one chambered in .44 Colt/Special and what barrel length?  Mine is a 5".  Have they made fewer than .45 Colt and .44-40 or is the demand so high that they just disappeared faster?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on October 16, 2023, 12:10:54 AM
      Greetings!

   Lettow, I have no idea; when I bought my WONDERFUL OM#3 .45Colt with a 5"bbl, I REALLY WANTED a .44R with an 8"bbl.
At first, I told myself that I'd sell my .45 if I found a .44R - 8", but it shoots my handholds SO WELL, that I truly believe that we
have become inseparable...
   I await the importation of the beautiful OM #3 American, .44R with an 8"bbl., and the Dubloons to purchase it...!

            M.T.M.
          10-15-23
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on December 27, 2023, 07:46:36 PM
Just a heads up to everyone. I received an email from Cimarron today that my 44 russian, 8"bbl American has arrived.
Don't know where I was on the wait list but has probably been around a 3 year wait, possibly more?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on December 28, 2023, 02:37:56 PM
Mine is inbound. Will post pics when I get it. 3 years and can't believe it's on its way. Wish it wouldn't have been around the holidays though. 😕
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on December 29, 2023, 01:55:46 PM
Mine came in two weeks ago. Wanted the nickel version buy after 3 years I'm more than happy with blued steel. Made the last match two Saturday's ago and will be shooting it again at tomorrow's match. The Blackhills smokeless .44 Russian ammo hits at point of aim. Pushing 8" of barrel out at the targets seems like using a hand-carbine. Sweet!!!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on December 29, 2023, 10:36:47 PM
How are the 8" .44s coming in right now marked for caliber?  .44 Russian?  Are the chambers actually .44 Russian or are they .44 Special.

My 5" is marked .44 Colt and will accept .44 Special.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on December 31, 2023, 01:28:11 PM
  That of course is the sad part of the story. The chambers are bored for .44 S&W Special cartridges.
The Barrel is marked on the left side in two lines; Line One: 44 Colt & Russian,  Line Two: S&W Special

  Yesterday was my second match since it arrived. Using only .44 Russian ammo. No misses.  It'll-do!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on January 02, 2024, 01:40:28 PM
I called Cimarron this morning. I have an 8” barreled American in 44 Russian, Colt, and Special coming. Happy to get one.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on January 04, 2024, 03:42:09 PM
Just picked up my new American. All is right with the world.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 04, 2024, 04:19:27 PM
Just picked up my new American. All is right with the world.
Pictures or it didn't happen.  ;)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on January 04, 2024, 06:28:36 PM
Here is mine.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on January 18, 2024, 03:56:14 PM
On my new American I noticed that the back of the cylinder is marked with the caliber. My.45 is not. Working on the very heavy trigger pull with just the trigger spring. I’ve got it better but it still needs work. Those S&W’s aren’t the easiest guns to take apart and put back together.
My plan is to shorten.44 Special brass so that it will hold 23 grs. of powder. I will use the lube that I used when I shot with the N-SSA. A cup of Crisco with a marble sized chunk of beeswax. I could shoot the whole match if I had to with no problem.
In reply to mtmarfield that is what the screw is for. The early Americans used a different swivel than later models. It was rectangular shaped.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 18, 2024, 06:38:13 PM
...My plan is to shorten.44 Special brass so that it will hold 23 grs. of powder...

Maybe 44 Colt brass would work?  I use 20-21 gr of BP in a Russian case, not sure what the 44 Colt would hold.  Some of it will depend on the bullet.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on January 19, 2024, 12:46:38 PM
.44 Colt will hold about 25 grs. The reason I want to shorten.44 Special is because of the larger rim diameter. The Colt rim is pretty small to work as well.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: missourijack on January 20, 2024, 11:32:07 AM
I got mine yesterday. .44 Special !  Beautiful piece !  I hope some custom grips are available for this pistol. Faux ivory or bone would really set off the deep blue.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Books OToole on January 21, 2024, 10:01:09 AM
Looking forward to some range time.

Books
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Coffinmaker on January 21, 2024, 02:43:23 PM

 :) U.S.M.R.  ;)

Don't actually know where yer going with a "shorten'd" 44 Special case.  But and however, have you considered .44 Russian cases??  Same same Rim as the Special, a bit reduced volume ? ? ? MidwayUSA has 44 Russian available.  Just a thought or three.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on January 21, 2024, 03:15:04 PM
My plan is to shorten.44 Special brass so that it will hold 23 grs. of powder.

Coffinmaker and all,

The 23 grains of BP and a 246 grain bullet is the Original loading for the generally accepted 44 Russian cartridge.
He is trying to reproduce the Original round in a solid base casing.

Good luck and just keep -- measuring BP; pouring in casing; marking casing; pouring BP out; then check with bullet for final measurement of OAL; file/trim casing to that marking; dummy load for bullet crimp.  If OAL is correct then cut the rest of your casings.  Test a few before cutting all your casing.

Have fun shooting.

PS.  Also allow for compression of your powder.   Remember, figuring out how to get there is half the fun of reloading specialty cartridges.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on January 23, 2024, 08:21:15 AM
23gr of BP can be put in a 44russian starline case with the correct bullet such as the ideal 429184. The 429478 "Anderton" bullet will also work.
  Both of these bullet have less than others inside the case when seated fully.
The old 429251 bullet I also cast will only work well with 23gr in old buttonhead Peter's brass. Trying to compress 23gr of BP in starline brass under this bullet was possible but showed very low velocities. My take on this was the powder was so compressed it was not burning fully.
 I have chronographed all of these loads and the good ones achieved close to claimed original velocities with Goex 3f out of my open top and transition type 2.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 23, 2024, 08:53:43 AM
... My American has been sent back to cimarron (unfired)hopefully to return soon.

Because...?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on January 23, 2024, 09:29:49 AM
Message sent
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on January 23, 2024, 01:09:03 PM
Speedballalice,

Thanks for that info.  I have used the Lyman 429251 bullet for my 44 Russian's in the Open Top since about 2003.  Mainly because of the weight and a crimp groove.  Yes, I did use only BP back then, but now have to use smokeless for my shooting.

I will try getting my hands on a Lyman 429184 bullet mold and give it a try.



Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 23, 2024, 02:45:03 PM
23gr of BP can be put in a 44russian starline case with the correct bullet such as the ideal 429184. The 429478 "Anderton" bullet will also work....
What is the OAL of that Russian with the 429184 bullet?  Wondering if it would feed in a toggle link rifle.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on January 23, 2024, 03:50:58 PM
What is the OAL of that Russian with the 429184 bullet?  Wondering if it would feed in a toggle link rifle.
I have checked this. When I get home I will look at my notes.
I do know that if you seat the 429251 bullet out exposing the crimp groove it will feed ireally smooth n my henrys and 66 carbine. And you can fit 23gr of BP behind it in a starline case . Can't comment on how they shoot though. My rifles are 45 colt and 44-40.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 23, 2024, 04:01:11 PM
Thanks.  1.4" OAL in a Schofield feeds in my .45 '73, so I think if the Russian could be made that long it would probably feed in my 44 Spcl '66.  Otherwise the rifle would need one of those modified carriers for short rounds.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on January 23, 2024, 05:58:33 PM
The 429184 bullet cycles good through my 44-40 Henry and my 45 Colt 66 Carbine. The Henry will hold 14 in the tube +1. Below are measurements.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 23, 2024, 07:23:26 PM
Hmm, that would work!  Thank you.  But I wonder if anyone sells the 429184, because I don't cast.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on January 23, 2024, 07:52:25 PM
Message sent
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Abilene on January 24, 2024, 02:36:04 PM
Okay, I take it back.  Thanks for the offer to cast up some bullets to try out, but it just occurred to me that I do NOT want to shoot round-nose bullets in a rifle! 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 06, 2024, 12:40:19 PM
Regarding how comfortable an American feels. When they became available you had a choice of a percussion revolver or a conversion. The American loaded and ejected faster. You could get used to it. When I shot with the N-SSA I shot a Parker Hale pattern 1858 naval rifle because it was superior to other rifles. It was stocked different but I got used to it and good with it. The point being if it’s the best you’ll get used to it.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 09, 2024, 04:50:53 PM
Looking at my new Americans I realized that they are threaded for a lanyard ring. The early Americans were not threaded for one. What really caught my eye is that they’re threaded like the original. A threaded hole with a pin on the side to prevent turning. All three Russian models used the same method. The Uberti Russians have a straight shaft with a pin through the center. I wonder why they used the correct method on the American even though it shouldn’t have it, and why they used an incorrect method on the Russian.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DrummerBoy on February 13, 2024, 08:05:50 AM
I’m sure you gentlemen  realize how long this venue has become…
I’m now as responsible as everyone else ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DrummerBoy on February 13, 2024, 08:14:21 AM
Of course the double attachment didn’t help ???!!!
(BTW I talked to Bobby at Cimarron and got on the list for a “Vlad/Donny”, but there was .45 at Midway and I fell for it! all I have for ammo is the Black Hills.. one box of Winchester Cowboy for the .44 Special)
All are more accurate than I am!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: DrummerBoy on February 13, 2024, 08:23:54 AM
Hmmm still learning….
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on February 14, 2024, 05:51:37 AM
Here is mine.

Interesting that they changed the caliber markings.

Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on February 15, 2024, 06:38:12 AM
Yeah, I noticed that too. Who knows.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 16, 2024, 01:15:21 PM
My .44 American is marked.44 Colt & Russian S & W Special on the barrel. The rear of the cylinder is marked .44 Colt. Also it’s in a different serial number range than my.45 American and the rest of my top breaks for that matter. Little minor differences between them.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on February 16, 2024, 01:58:58 PM
Lettow,

Will your revolver still load a 44 Spec casing (ie will it handle a 44 spec, properly)?

Or

Will it only handle 44 Colt length cartridges?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on February 16, 2024, 02:29:08 PM
It will load .44 S&W Special cases loaded with common 200 or 240gr. .44 RNFP profile with no problem. Mine eats 200gr. RNL out  of .44S&W Russian cases hitting point-of-aim at 10 yards. No whinning here. ;D 
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on February 16, 2024, 07:25:47 PM
Lettow,

Will your revolver still load a 44 Spec casing (ie will it handle a 44 spec, properly)?

Or

Will it only handle 44 Colt length cartridges?

I pulled it out today and tried some HSM 44 Special 240 gr lead semi-wadcutter and it went in just fine.  Cylinder is marked .44 Colt on the rear face.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on February 16, 2024, 08:34:06 PM
Lettow,

Yes, it may fully seat a crimped bullet, like my 2001 44Colt OP, but will it fully seat a sized 44 spec empty casing?  My 44 Colt marked OP would not fully seat the empty 44 spec casing therefore it was not safe to fire 44 Spec's.  It was specific for 44 Colt and 44Rus, only.

I hope that is not true with these newer American models because I want a 44 spec but will mainly shoot 44Rus.  But want, the full compliment of 44's to work through it, if I like.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 17, 2024, 03:38:17 PM
Thinking about it marking a Smith and Wesson especially an American .44 Colt should be a sin. FWIW the original Russian cartridge used a 275 grain outside lubricated bullet. The cartridge as we know it now didn’t come out until the late 1880’s.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on February 18, 2024, 11:56:27 PM
      Greetings, All!

   Honestly, I'd be delighted if they'd just offer to chamber it for the .44S&W 'Russian'; it should be more accurate than having a "mongrel chamber" designed to shoot cartridges that this revolver was never designed to shoot.
   Think about it: An Old Model #3 chambered for the .44S&W 'Russian' ( I believe collectors called them "Old Old Model Russians" ), an original configuration. Now, as an OPTION, I think that would be wonderful!

                           M.T.M.
                         2-18-24
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on February 19, 2024, 09:25:37 AM
      Greetings, All!

   Honestly, I'd be delighted if they'd just offer to chamber it for the .44S&W 'Russian'; it should be more accurate than having a "mongrel chamber" designed to shoot cartridges that this revolver was never designed to shoot.
   Think about it: An Old Model #3 chambered for the .44S&W 'Russian' ( I believe collectors called them "Old Old Model Russians" ), an original configuration. Now, as an OPTION, I think that would be wonderful!

                           M.T.M.
                         2-18-24

I totally agree with you.  But it was stated 3 years back, I believe, here in this thread, that that would not be available.  A true 1st Model Russian would be very nice to have and in my mind that is sort of what we are getting in the 44 Chambers.  But my comments above and on the previous page was a WARNing.

I am concerned that a person would put a 44Spec into a 44Colt cut chamber and then over-pressure-it, to BLOW-up.

That all.

The overall question is --- Why does Uberti have two different barrel markings for the 44? And also   Why is Lettow's cylinder marked 44 Colt?  Just does not make sense and we have too few sample guns to come up with an explanation.

BRS
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on February 19, 2024, 10:52:40 AM
Lettow,

Yes, it may fully seat a crimped bullet, like my 2001 44Colt OP, but will it fully seat a sized 44 spec empty casing?  My 44 Colt marked OP would not fully seat the empty 44 spec casing therefore it was not safe to fire 44 Spec's.  It was specific for 44 Colt and 44Rus, only.

I hope that is not true with these newer American models because I want a 44 spec but will mainly shoot 44Rus.  But want, the full compliment of 44's to work through it, if I like.


i can't locate my new 44 special brass right now but found 6 fired cases of different manufacture.  They fit the chambers fine.  Also, I checked the cylinder length and it's 1.556".
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on February 19, 2024, 01:00:33 PM
  Ditto...once fired .44 S&W Special cases fit. Cylinder face has four stamping's around the circumference. The new Uberti octagon barrel face logo, the serial number, 44COLT and on mine; IT2023. Not sure, but guess that would be a production date code possibly. Only Rome knows for sure.   
   Third match since it finally arrived in mid-December and still no misses.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Lettow on February 19, 2024, 02:00:24 PM
  Ditto...once fired .44 S&W Special cases fit. Cylinder face has four stamping's around the circumference. The new Uberti octagon barrel face logo, the serial number, 44COLT and on mine; IT2023. Not sure, but guess that would be a production date code possibly. Only Rome knows for sure.   
   Third match since it finally arrived in mid-December and still no misses.  ;D

The cylinder on mine is marked the same way but the code is IT2021.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 19, 2024, 02:21:24 PM
The original OOM Russian was simply marked Russian Model on the barrel rib with no other caliber marking. The Russian cartridge had about 100 feet per second and about 100 foot pounds of energy over the heel based American cartridge with less powder and a heavier bullet.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on February 19, 2024, 06:52:38 PM

i can't locate my new 44 special brass right now but found 6 fired cases of different manufacture.  They fit the chambers fine.  Also, I checked the cylinder length and it's 1.556".

Thanks for verifying everything.  That is good to know.  But still seems silly for Uberti to change the barrel stamping unless something broke or the original long version was taking extra time.

Have fun shooting yours.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 20, 2024, 01:47:41 PM
I agree with the caliber marking confusion. They could have simply marked it .44 special and been done with it. As hard as reloading components are to get it’s nice to have an option. Given the slow decline of our shooting sport I am surprised that they made the American at all. While it is not perfect I am thankful to have the two I have. I enjoy them immensely.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on February 24, 2024, 01:18:34 PM
Smith and Wesson wrote UMC asking why Russian ammunition cost more than American ammunition. UMC replied that Russian ammunition used Berdan primers which they had to pay a royalty on and that they were loaded with pistol powder. That implies the American cartridges were loaded with something else. The 60 grs difference in bullet weight was not mentioned.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on March 01, 2024, 02:12:02 PM
Reading Logan’s and Pate’s books I’m surprised at the number of people on the frontier that wanted to carry two Americans. The Americans were much quicker to reload than the C&B revolvers. Just proves the old adage that the quickest way to reload a revolver is to have another one already loaded.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on March 02, 2024, 12:35:56 PM
Looking through my books some people ordered Russian cylinders for their American models. Reasons being that they could shoot either cartridge, it was easier to reload, they liked the cartridge better, or it was easier to obtain.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: mtmarfield on March 03, 2024, 10:21:16 PM
      Greetings!

   Cabela's at Charleston WV. Used Guns ( Gun Library ).

                    M.T.M.
                   3-03-24
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Cap'n Redneck on March 05, 2024, 07:27:47 AM
-and here's the link:

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/101518617

(since the shop identifies it as an "Uberti Schofield", I would verify the caliber which is stated as ".44 Colt".)

I think it's missing about three inches of barrel....but that's just me, I guess...?
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on March 05, 2024, 07:42:57 AM
The Barrel is stamped 44 Colt  :)
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on March 07, 2024, 09:13:48 AM
Well, I'm back from my family emergency trip, and will be going to work tomorrow.  I plan on checking the American for markings (box says .44 Special).  I'll take 44 Special and .44 colt brass to check the cylinder.  I'll post pictures in a coupe days.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on March 08, 2024, 08:25:03 PM
Checked mine, and it is marked "44 Russian" the under it "Smith & Wesson Special". I checked, and it chambers .44 Special brass.  I checked ejection with my .44 Colt brass, and it ejected fine, despite its smaller rims. Good news, as I will pair it with one of my Anderson 1860 .44 Colt only conversions.  It fits my Oklahome Leather California Slim Jim holster perfectly.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Black River Smith on March 09, 2024, 12:54:18 PM
With Tuolumne's description, we now have 3 different styles/pattern for the 44 stampings.  It appears that all --- Will handle a 44Spec, Colt and Russian cartridges.

WOW!   Very interesting and wonder why.

I still want one.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Johnson Barr on March 10, 2024, 01:46:33 PM
4th monthly match and still no misses. Don't much care at this point how it has been stamped. 'Sweetie-pie' shoots straight on and I'm a very happy trigger squeezer.  ;D
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: River City John on March 10, 2024, 05:17:47 PM
4th monthly match and still no misses. Don't much care at this point how it has been stamped. 'Sweetie-pie' shoots straight on and I'm a very happy trigger squeezer.  ;D

You're my Hero, Johnson Barr!!!
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on March 11, 2024, 02:14:31 PM
Couldn’t think of a better place to put this. Last night I watched Conagher starring Sam Elliot made in 1991. At first I thought it was an American he was carrying and shooting as it had an American barrel. Later in closeups of it his holster I saw it had the Ordinetz frame. What really surprised me is that I have one just like it too.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Tuolumne Lawman on March 12, 2024, 02:44:22 PM
I am hooked.  Trying to arrange an 8" to go with my 5" American.  Ordered more 44 Russian brass and Cheyenne Pioneer Cartridge 44 Russian boxes from Buffalo Arms, and 246 grain 44 Russian slugs from Bear Creek.  I have some brass, dies, powder, primers, and already have 5 of the vintage 44 Russian boxes. 

In the past, I have had an original No 3 Russian, and T&E a Uberti No. 3 Russian, but didn't care for the grips.  I love the American's (and Schofields) plow handle grip, but I think better sights than the Schofields sights.  I had a terrible time with the Schofield and sighting.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Major 2 on March 12, 2024, 03:07:53 PM

".... In the past, I have had an original No 3 Russian,..."

Being as how TL brought it up  :)  Here is that very original No 3 Russian he mentioned that he passed on to me. He sent those boxes along too.
And its side kick my Uberti NM #3.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: U.S.M.R. on March 13, 2024, 03:05:28 PM
I was wondering what my American would be like with a shorter barrel. I took the barrel off of my Russian and put it on my American and there you go. I like the 8” barrel much better. Not to mention it looks cool. We all know cool looking guns shoot better don’t we.
Title: Re: Cimarron's new American model!
Post by: Speedballalice on March 19, 2024, 05:32:23 PM
So quick question to those of you that have the Cimarron American.

Do you have any play between the barrel and frame when the gun is locked closed?
I sent mine back with this problem and just got it back today with no change.

there is a couple thousandths of vertical movement. Ugh I'm so disappointed. If they are all like this I will live with it. This gun is still unfired and I'm preparing to make a call and send it back again. The only note with it was they "refit pivot screw". I wanna shoot this gun so bad but don't want it to beat itself even more loose.

Thoughts????