YAHOO PARDS

[BobbyF]

     Thank You all for your insight and opinions about which pistola to buy. I bought a slightly used 1871 Open Top Navy from Cimerron made by Uberti in .38 spc, 7.5 barrel. My biggest fear was that the fixed sights were going to be way off. Boy was I ever wrong, they are dead nuts on the mark. At 25 yds  using a pillow, ten rounds in a three inch group .  My first time shooting it. I love the way it looks, great grip and great trigger pull. The hammer cocking is not.so smooth. As a bonus now I have to make another holster. I'm on my way to CAS.thank you all --BobbyF

[Abilene]

Bobby,
Sounds good, but the pistol in your picture (besides being upside down, hehe) is not a '71 Opentop.  It is a '51 Richards-Mason conversion.

As for the hammer pull not being smooth, do you mean just heavy or gritty or what?  If it is just heavy then a lighter main spring will make a big difference. 

[hatman]

Bobby,
Sounds good, but the pistol in your picture (besides being upside down, hehe) is not a '71 Opentop.  It is a '51 Richards-Mason conversion.

As for the hammer pull not being smooth, do you mean just heavy or gritty or what?  If it is just heavy then a lighter main spring will make a big difference. 

Abilene,
I have a 51 Conversion and the trigger pull does feel a little gritty (good word), but it otherwise functions well and is really accurate.
What does 'gritty' imply? 

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[Major 2]

Slight interference of machined surfaces, perhaps some tooling marks rubbing...
Often, a through cleaning and lube will help... a light stoning of internal moving & mating surfaces or even an action job.

I've pulled the grips, flooded & flushed the otherwise assemble gun with break-free or the like and lubed with Gibbs Lube....
cycled some and smoothed a NIB gun right out.

I've also sent a R&M to Longhunter for full action job an lighter springs.... SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH

Was the former as smooth as the action job ... heck NO, but noticeably better

[BobbyF]

Hi Pards,
     Thanks again for giving of your time and knowledge.
     Hey Abilene, I'm just glad my fat thumb is not in there . I went to the Cimerron site to compare pics, they are almost identical. My '71 (?) even has the  same fixed sights, rear notch on the hammer and a domed post up front like the'51 R&M. Maybe if I include some of the etchings and stamps it would help me understand. When I talk to my gun I would like to know his real name.
On top of the octagon brl is stamped: Cimerron F A Co, Fredericksburg, Texas, Made in Italy
On the bottom is stamped. A.Umberti. In tiny letters P. F.,    38 COLT 8', S&W SPEC
On left side near wedge is stamped  1871
On the left frame is stamped:   PAT July 25,1871 and below that  PAT July 2,1872
On the bottom of barrel where it meets the frame are the matching serial #'s. X20791, below that is stamped 12311 with a small box with CD stamped in it
On the cylinder is etched old multi masted sailing ships with NEW YORK stamped on it
     Major, when I get an owners manual showing the breakdown I will follow your tune-up, sounds real good,thanks
     Thank to all, hope I didn't annoy any Pards with this post. Be well--BobbyF

[BobbyF]

Hi again Pards,

     The attached pics didn't come out on the last post, maybe this time,for what they are worth. Be well

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

How you can easily tell the difference is that the earlier conversions had a "backing plate" behind the cylinder, while the Open Tops were newly manufactured with a rounded frame next to the rear of the cylinder.  The open tops look like the Single Action Army at the rear of the cylinder.  Yours is definitely a Richard Mason Conversion. (Pardon my awkward description.)

[BobbyF]

Sir Charles,
     Thanks for the info, it should help me find the right  manual for the gun . I'm still confused about the "1871" stamped on the side of the barrel. I'm beginning to think I have a hy-bred of some sort. Curiosity more than anything,I still love the way it shoots.
Could the serial number help to find out  when it was made? Thanks and be well--BobbyF

[Abilene]

Bobby, it is definitely a '51 Richards-Mason.  The Octagonal barrel ONLY comes on the '51.  All '71-72 OT's have round barrels with the rear sight molded into the rear of the barrel.  The 1871 stamped on the left side of the barrel is an "Uberti" thing, and just causes some confusion because the originals were not so stamped.  They just started doing that the last few years.  I have four '51 R-M's (love them!) that are older and don't have that 1871 stamped on them.  In the olden times, it was about 1871 when Colt started doing the conversions (that's when S&W's patent expired on the bored-through cylinder). That is also the year they started making the Opentops.  To further confuse people, Taylor and Co. started importing the Richards-Masons about 5 years after Cimarron introduced them and Taylors calls them 1871 C. Mason Revolvers

As for the serial number, that is fairly recent.  I expect your gun was made in the last year or two.  You can call Cimarron and ask if you want or you can find the proof marks on the gun and there is a list online somewhere which will show you what year it was made by the proof marks (I don't have that URL handy right now).  Enjoy your new toy!

[Major 2]

The box with CD stamped in it is your date code = your gun was made in 2009

[BobbyF]

Abilene, Major
   You gents are wonderful and amazing. You did put my mind at ease. I posted the confusion was just "curiosity", but it was gnawing at me inside, you stopped the gnawing. I am amazed at the knowledge and experience you Pards possess and share so willingly. The dealer had none of this info, or choose not to share it. I learned a lesson,  next time I will jump on this Board first. 
     I do not wish to "knock" the dealer, for the piece is beautiful and in pristine condition. He probably assumed I knew what I was doing. I was lucky though, it could have been a lemon. I shot 150 rds of .38 spec, 130 grain, full jacketed factory loads without a hitch. What ammo would you Pards recommend ? I plan to shoot often. I am a little worried about the durability of the pistola, but I probably shouldn't be, I am 64 and a cancer patient, I think the metal should outlast me.
     Well off to make some noise, bless you all--BobbyF

[Major 2]

If you don't reload, I suggest Black Hills Ammo http://www.black-hills.com/cowboy_action_calibers.php
38 is not all that pricey....but shop a bit for it prices vary

durability will not be a issue .... most you may encounter might be a broken bolt/trigger spring , an easy 5 min. repair.

[Blair]

What Major 2 said.
I have not shopped for them in years, but .38 target/practice wad cutter reloads use to be one of the most reasonably priced ammo one could buy. Return the spent brass and you could often get a price cut on the next batch you bought.
These were light recoil loads with cast lead bullets. Should do very well in the Colt conversion or Open Top type revolvers with little wear or recoil problems.
Hope this helps.
Blair

[Abilene]

Bobby, I think you should get good service from your conversion.  I got my first pair in 2001.  They are 7 1/2" standard finish like yours (later I refinished the grips with an oil finish).   Liked them so much I got a second pair in 2004.  Those are 5 1/2" charcoal blue engraved.  I have other guns, Colt SAA's and clones in .44 and .45 and all the guns get shot in CAS matches, so none have a huge number of rounds through them, but I shoot these the most and all four of these conversions have had a little over 2800 rounds through each (I keep good records  ), probably 2/3 black powder and 1/3 smokeless.  I have had very little problem with them.  I have put a spring kit in each (lighter main spring and trigger-bolt spring), and these American made trigger-bolt springs are much more reliable than the Italian springs.  As mentioned above, the Uberti trigger-bolt spring is the most likely item to break.  The next most likely thing to break would be the leaf spring on the hand.  Some folks have their guns modified to use a coil spring for the hand, but I have not done so and have not had a failure of that spring.  The firing pin on these guns is rather sharp, and I use Federal primers in my reloads which is the softest primer, so I was getting some pierced primers.  It did not cause any problems, but I filed down the point of the firing pins a wee bit which stopped the piercing.  One of the four also had an insufficient barrel to cylinder gap which would cause the gun to bind when shooting black powder so that took a little tweaking.  And then one of the four would occasionally (like once every 30 rounds or so) over-rotate when I shot it two-handed with fast cocking.  A gunsmith advanced the timing on that one so the bolt pops up just a tad earlier and it never had that problem again.  Have fun!

[Major 2]

Every time I see those two 5 1/2's my heart slips a beat !

[BobbyF]

ABILENE,

     Absolutely beautiful ! ! I agree with the Major and my heart slips a beat looking at that most handsome foursome. I'm saving the pics with  the spring info. I want to do the Major's clean and lube job, shoot some more and then check into the springs
Thanks Blair, I'll be switching to the wad cutters, I also used them long time ago.
Abilene, after seeing your nicely posed pics, I see you can shoot things other than guns.
All be well--BobbyF

[Major 2]

I forgot to mention..I also, put a bit of (I like Bore Butter) light grease on the arbor , just a dab.

Wonder Lube is also just fine .... Ballistol will work too, but I like the pastier consistencies.