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The Darksider's Den / Re: A Poll about your bullets
« Last post by Mako on April 11, 2024, 10:59:47 AM »
Sled Man,
I am so glad you responded.  I am assuming you do work on old "sleds" now seeing your machine work.

I am including 13 year old design possibilities for a collet modification.  I don't have large diameter slitting saws (and it appears yours are wider than the Lee originals) in the narrow slit they used on the collets so I was going to try and modify their collet. I know it's a pain, if they were expanding collets (features on the O.D.) it would be easier.  The guy I was collaborating with pointed out my .06 Radius wasn't any different than a chamfer the way I wanted them modified (he's right).  The main thing is I wanted the crimping surface reduced to .005 to .010" of bearing surface.

My .44 WCF dies crimp like you show in your picture and don't "roll" the crimp into the groove on my Mav Dutchmans  or won't on almost any other lead bullet crimp groove.  There are a few designs with wide crimp grooves or even John Kort's design where he has the ogive going to a reduced diameter on front of the "crimp groove" so you can use a Lee Factory crimp die seat the bullet a bit deeper and the crimper will make the crimp deeper than the bearing surfaces.  A lot of people miss that feature and a lot roll crimp with standard pistol dies.  He had at least one Winchester with the original chamber dimensions and neck turned cases and sized bullets to Ø.428.  I don't go to that much trouble with my original '73 the chamber will accept a modern shell if i have sized my bullets to Ø.428.  Probably snug, but I get NO blow back around the neck.

So your collet appears to be a lot shorter than the theoretical .205 shorter .44 COLT case (from the .44 WCF).  In practice I have found Starline Brass to vary and I think my last batch was 1.110 in length instead of 1.10".  We were going to push out the original collet, then shorten it .205" and shorten the die body at least .25".  The collets are relatively hard so we might have even had to use a die post grinder with a Ø .25 grinding wheel (not a traditional Tool Post O.D. grinder).  We were going to make two pieces to stabilize the collet while in the lathe chuck or a collet.  An aluminum plug to fit n the bore of the collet and two sleeve halves to fit in the stepped down section on the O.D. of the Lee Collet. It's been a while but I think it was the two segments had an OD of 3/4" to fit in a standard collet.  How much did you shorten your die body?

Any advise you can give me from your efforts would be appreciated.

I like your Lubrication set up, I like that you are using an air cylinder instead of a hand pump a lot.  I have two boxes of cylinders salvaged from other projects, some as large as Ø 4.0 inches.

Is that a cylinder loading stand you are using with your bullet lubing set up?  If it is I applaud you, I love it when someone re-uses something they already have time and effort into.  My loader is below, I have all kinds of adapter for different cylinders (some are kept on the stand) but it really is optimized for Colt's Pattern '51s and '60s.  The riser used to be taller but I shortened it to just handle the Colt's cylinders and the brass plungers have built in hard stops.

You fully explained the reason I want a different style crimp face on the collet.  You reported that you were having trouble with the bullets pulling out in the lubrication die.  Pushing them through a Ø.451 sizer sort of makes the heeled bullet a moot point.  If you only had  a .01" land and enough compression to squeeze the collet to get the crimp to reduce that area bay at lest .01 to .015 inches per side it they would not pull out.  That is my quest, to get a "Hard Crimped" Heeled bullet, not just the hint of a crimp.

CAS City Classifieds / Re: 36 Cal. big Lube Bullets by Mark Whyte
« Last post by Major 2 on April 11, 2024, 10:26:13 AM »
Willy's on utube

CAS City Classifieds / Re: 36 Cal. big Lube Bullets by Mark Whyte
« Last post by Johnny McCrae on April 11, 2024, 10:14:59 AM »
Kevin, I'm looking forward to your visit....I can invite Johnny McCray
I'd love to meet with you Gents
CAS City Classifieds / Re: 36 Cal. big Lube Bullets by Mark Whyte
« Last post by Major 2 on April 11, 2024, 10:14:36 AM »
The weird thing was, the last time I met Coffinmaker at Willy's , the joint was directly across the street.
Now, it shares the same, general area with the Amtrak Station just across the quiet side street.
I asked the employee how long they had been in the newer digs, he stated about 12 years  :-\

Now, I know it has not been 12 years since my last outing there, course the Covid has screwed up any time
reference corollary, but I'm thinking I was in the old place with my late friend Capt. John in 2019    ???

In any case, same good "dogs" and a Root Beer made my visit with Mike and his "sweety" enjoyable  :)
Have a safe Auto Train trip back home you guys.  :)
Many thanks for all the thoughtful recommendations.  I've checked every recommended source and all were either out of stock or thought their products worth $40 a piece. My inclination at this point is to go ahead and grind one back and go from there.  I figure if I fail, I can always backorder a replacement. 
CAS City Classifieds / Re: 36 Cal. big Lube Bullets by Mark Whyte
« Last post by Coffinmaker on April 11, 2024, 08:41:00 AM »

 :) On a Lighter Note  ;)

iffin yer gonna be in the Orlando/Kissimmee area, Willy's Wieners is a "Must Do" for a Hot Dog.  Better-n-Casey's in The Magic Kingdom you betcha.  Parking around the side.  Yum Yum Yum
Belt Mountain Enterprises.
The Darksider's Den / Re: A Poll about your bullets
« Last post by AntiqueSledMan on April 11, 2024, 07:35:19 AM »

I missed your question about lube. I had built a Cylinder Loading Press, then I bult a Lubricator to put on it.
My Lubricator consists of an old pneumatic cylinder mounted to a block with an RCBS .451 sizing die inside.
I needed to replace the end port of the cylinder so I could install a screw to the piston to push the lube through
a 1/8” passageway, lined up with the grove of the die. With no ejector punch to seal the lube passage when the
bullet is not present I installed a gate valve in the block to close the passage, a shoulder bolt with a 1/8” hole
drilled through and a T handle. You push the loaded cartridge into the lubing die, turn the gate 1/4 turn, then turn
the gate another 1/4 turn then raise the cartridge out of the die.

A locking collar was installed on the ram to set the depth, so the grease groove of the bullet lines up with the die passage.
The Shell Holder was a modified LEE #9. The LEE Shell Holder has a taper in the primer passage which I fit a threaded stud,
then held it together with an 8-32 Flat Head Bolt. I turned the Shell Holder Base to .490” diameter to fit inside my Cylinder
Press for clearance purposes and to work as a stop.

I did load 50 rounds with Goex 2F, so I figured I needed the lube. I went with ¾ cup Crisco Shortening, ¼ lb of Gulf Wax,
and ¼ lb of Bees Wax. It did push through the sizing die and filled the groove on the bullet. I figured if this wasn't enough
lube, I would reduced the charge and add a lubricated felt wad under the bullet. But with the Black MZ I no longer need the lube.

I did have an issue with the bullets wanting to pull out of my case while removing the lubricated cartridge from the lubricator.
So I ended up running all of my bullets through a LEE .451 push thru sizing die before loading them into the cases.

The Darksider's Den / Re: A Poll about your bullets
« Last post by AntiqueSledMan on April 11, 2024, 05:49:01 AM »

I used a Lee 44-40 Factory Crimp Die, removed the collet,
shortened the die body by 1/4", and built a new collet for the 44 Colt Original.
The bullet is a LEE 450-200-1R, with a heel swaged on the base.
I believe Howell has quit offering the .44 Colt Cylinder, sales must have been very low,
they did question if I really wanted the .44 Colt so I sent them a picture of the headstamp.
It was plug and play, absolutly no modifications were neccesary.
Since all of this I have done two Pietta 1851 .44 caliber conversions.
One with the Howell Cylinder, and one with the Kirst Gated Cylinder.
Both are done in .45 Colt, and are only 5 shot.
Timing was a real issue, I got the Howell to operate by switching parts around.
But with the Kirst, I sent it off to 45 Dragoon and he did his magic to it.
Mike installed a coil spring & plunger for the hand, a wrapped coil spring for the trigger and bolt.
I had already installed the Wolf's reduced preasure main spring before sending it off.
Attached are pictures of my LEE Factory Crimp Die & Collet which I made out of O2 Drill Rod and heat traeted.
To make the Rolled Crimp look would be a trick, but not impossible.
Also pictures of my heel forming die.

Tall Tales / Re: April 1, Fooling around making the coffee & toast
« Last post by Silver Creek Slim on April 11, 2024, 05:27:45 AM »
Morning y'all.
Coffee and tea are hot.

Learned good info. Took the Stop The Bleed class. There is a free on-line course.

'Tis 39 and partly cloudy. "Cloudy. A slight chance of showers in the morning  then showers and a slight chance of thunderstorms in the afternoon. Highs in the lower 60s. Light and variable wind becoming north 5 to 10 mph in the afternoon. Chance of rain 90 percent."

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