Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Spencer Shooting Society => Topic started by: gruby62 on February 20, 2022, 10:57:04 PM
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Hello everyone. I just purchased an 1865 Spencer Carbine from an estate that has been hidden for many years. This is a neat little carbine with serial number 3894. It has a Stabler device and is stamped on the right side of the receiver Co K 9 CAV!! Can anyone help with this serial number or any other info on the gun. Thanks in advance.
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Hi grupy62,
If you are planning to join my Spencer Forum, please send an Email to me at fsgrand2@fairpoint.net . . . just saying you want to join SSS.
Regarding your 1865 Spencer model. I do not have any serial # information for the 1865 Spencer Model. Your Spencer may have been sent out West and used by the
US Cavalry and as you indicated, Co K, 9th Cavalry. stationed at Fort Stockton, Texas. There were 61 Spencer Carbines Model 1865 issued to Company K. Historically, it was one of a few segregated African American regiments. They served with distinction and valor in combat during the Indian Wars.
"In July 1867 the 9th Cavalry was ordered to western and southwestern Texas, to maintain law and order between the Rio Grande and Concho Rivers from Fort Clark to El Paso. Regimental Headquarters and Troops A, B, E and K, under Col. Hatch, were stationed at Fort Stockton; Troops C, D, F, G, H and I, under Lt. Col. Wesley Merritt were at Fort Davis. Troops L and M under 1st Lt. Hamilton had previously been sent to Brownsville. The 9th remained in Texas for eight years, nearly all of it in the field.
The regiment went to New Mexico Military District, which covered parts of New Mexico, Colorado and Texas, and participated in the Apache Wars from 1875 to 1881. That service included the Battle of Tularosa with Chiricahua Apache warriors led by Victorio in May 1880.
The 9th Cavalry was transferred to Fort Riley, Kansas, in 1881, and to Fort Robinson, Nebraska, in 1885.
Hope to hear from you by Email.
Two Flints
SSS Moderator
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Hello everyone. I just purchased an 1865 Spencer Carbine from an estate that has been hidden for many years. This is a neat little carbine with serial number 3894. It has a Stabler device and is stamped on the right side of the receiver Co K 9 CAV!! Can anyone help with this serial number or any other info on the gun. Thanks in advance.
PHOTOS! :-)
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To gather more specific information about your Spencer Carbine, it may be beneficial to consult specialized resources and experts in historical firearms. There are various online forums, collectors' communities, and historical firearm associations that can provide valuable insights and help you trace the history of your specific carbine.
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Hello everyone. I just purchased an 1865 Spencer Carbine from an estate that has been hidden for many years. This is a neat little carbine with serial number 3894. It has a Stabler device and is stamped on the right side of the receiver Co K 9 CAV!! Can anyone help with this serial number or any other info on the gun. Thanks in advance.
Based on the serial number and cavalry markings, I can provide some historical details on your 1865 Spencer carbine: geometry dash (https://geometrydash-free.com)
- The serial number of 3894 falls squarely into Spencer production in 1865, the final year of the Civil War. Approximately 13,000 carbines were made that year.
- The "Co K 9 CAV" stamping indicates this carbine was issued to Company K of the 9th Regiment California Volunteer Cavalry.
- The 9th CAV served in the Arizona and New Mexico territories late in the war patrolling for Confederate sympathizers and outlaws.
- So your Spencer likely saw action on frontier cavalry missions under Lieutenant Colonel William McCleave and Major Emil Fritz.
- The "Stabler cut-off" is a unique modification specific to the 9th CAV's Spencer carbines only, ordered by Colonel McCleave. It disabled the hand-cocking lever for safer handling by cavalry troopers.
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Congrat's, GRUBY62:
May I please suggest that you try to arrange for the family to provide a hand signed with a printed name
spelling recollection of whatever, no matter how limited in scope, the oral history might be.
Any provenance from the family can be historically significant, and might double the piece's value.
I know of one "attic find" Civil War carbine that had been in the constant possession of a WV family, and was sold for a fair price.
Subsequent family provenance turned it into $35,000 net auction proceeds.
Please try to provide pictures. If cannot post, please contact Two Flints for assistance. Thanks.
Smiles.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
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Based on the serial number and cavalry markings, I can provide some historical details on your 1865 Spencer carbine: geometry dash (https://geometrydash-free.com)
- The serial number of 3894 falls squarely into Spencer production in 1865, the final year of the Civil War. Approximately 13,000 carbines were made that year.
- The "Co K 9 CAV" stamping indicates this carbine was issued to Company K of the 9th Regiment California Volunteer Cavalry.
- The 9th CAV served in the Arizona and New Mexico territories late in the war patrolling for Confederate sympathizers and outlaws.
- So your Spencer likely saw action on frontier cavalry missions under Lieutenant Colonel William McCleave and Major Emil Fritz.
- The "Stabler cut-off" is a unique modification specific to the 9th CAV's Spencer carbines only, ordered by Colonel McCleave. It disabled the hand-cocking lever for safer handling by cavalry troopers.
With all due respect, a correction about the Stabler cutoff: There was no "hand-cocking lever". The idea of the Stabler cutoff was to prevent the action from opening far enough to feed a round from the magazine, so the arm could be used as a single-loader, supposedly to conserve ammo, until rapid fire was necessary. As on all Spencers, the hammer had to be manually cocked after the round was chambered. In fact, the safe procedure for firing a Spencer is to half-cock the hammer, work the lever to chamber a round from the magazine (or after single-loading a round), pull the hammer to full cock and fire. But, in a firefight situation, the hammer could be full-cocked before working the lever, and the trigger squeezed to fire. The reason for half or full-cocking the hammer, is to prevent slam-firing, as the rimfire fireing pin is longer than the breechblock. With the centerfire conversion, I set the firing pin up so it was an inertia pin, like a M1911A1. Just have to be careful not to shorten the pin too much!
BTW, the 9th Cav and the 10th were the Buffalo Soldiers!
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That information about the 9th Cavalry and its Stabler cutoffs is something I had never heard before.
I would be interested in learning more details. Are you able to provide a source?
Thanks--
--DJ
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That information about the 9th Cavalry and its Stabler cutoffs is something I had never heard before.
I would be interested in learning more details. Are you able to provide a source?
Thanks--
--DJ
The Stabler Cutoff was applied to all carbines and rifles delivered after June 1865, some 12,000 IIRC. The book, "Spencer" by Roy Marcot is the best resource. As far as the 9th Cavalry being the only unit issued Spencer carbines with the Stabler cutoff, I doubt that to be the case. Several companies of the 7th Cav were issued M1865 Spencer carbines, while several others had the older M1860 models. Lt. Fred Beecher, was the acting quartermaster of the 3rd Infantry and in addition to the infantry companies, 7th Cav companies were stationed there. The 3rd Infantry was the only post-CW infantry west of the Mississippi River that were issued Spencer rifles.
The 9th and 10th Cavalry regiments consisted of Black enlisted troopers with white officers (until later, when several Black officers served). Initially, Col. Grierson, who commanded the raid bearing his name, and whose character was loosely portrayed by John Wayne in "The Horse Soldiers", commanded the 10th, while Col. Hatch, who was also on Grierson's Raid, commanded the 9th. These two units served with great honor during the Indian Wars. The name "Buffalo Soldiers" was given them by some of the Indians they campaigned against, as a badge of honor...the buffalo being a sacred spirit. The 9th & 10th had the fewest incidence of desertion of the Indian Wars cavalry outfits. (Sorry, I can't quote a particular source for that...there are many books on the subject.)
Happy Holidays!