Acceptability of Reproduction Sharps .45-70 Carbine

[Forty Rod]

    Sounds like it would be dandy for a stroll through the woods!

My .45-70 of choice now is a Browning  Model 1886 with an octagonal barrel.  I stroll through the woods for about 75 yards and then sit down and wait for something edible to wander by.

[Tascosa Joe]

Well pards, I wish to thank all you fellers for your comments. Now  just need to fill out the application info from the website and join up.
Thanks a bunch,
Ronnie
(aka elhombreconnonombre on  here and most forums, but now I'm thinking about a handle like "Sargeant Smokey Bexar", pronounced Smokee Bear" if not taken in SASS, NCOWS, etc.)

NCOWS does not register alias's so you can be anything you want.  LOL  Are you from the San Antonio area?

[elhombreconnonombre]

Nearish to the Travis/Hays co. line, just across Slaughter Creek from San Leanna. S.A. (Bexar) is   a FEW  more miles down the road. I checked on S.A.S.S. and didn't see anything for Smokey Bexar. Perhaps I should join S.A.S.S. and grab it, though I dont have all the hardware to play that game.

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Yo no habla Espanol, but how about "Lleno de humo Bexar" (Perhaps with suitable corrections.)

Ahumado Bexar   Humeante....

[pony express]

SASS may not have a "Smokey Bexar", but they have a rule that if it sounds the same, it's the same, so if there's already a "smokey bear", they probably wouldn't accept it.

[Pitspitr]

I guess I don't understand what's wrong with "elhombreconnonombre" as an alias. "Pitspitr" started as an Idea for license plates. then I realized that it would make a good online user name and when I was looking for an alias I realized that most cocwboy folks already knew me by that so that's what I took for an alias.

On the other side of the coin; Like NCOWS, GAF goes pretty much equally by alias' and real names.  You don't need an alias if you don't want one.

[Delmonico]

At what distance? I've read that BPCR's do better at long range with BP. Haven't read about anyone doing well at long range with smokeless.

I learned long ago not to always believe everything I read, according to most of what you read, my cooking in camp won't come out good, but I think a lot of people here will beg to differ.   

If you get a load with a low variation in velocity from round to round it will do great most likely, that is the only reason black does so well, the velcity from round to round is very consitant.   

[Good Troy]

Me thinks the proper translation from english to spanish for "man with no name" is "hombre sin nombre".

[Grapeshot]

If we're discussing .45-70 loads, I've found that 55 grains of 1.5F Olde Eynesford under a 415 grain bullet was rather tolerable to shoot, if not pleasant. Granted, that is out of a rifle barrel, so your mileage may vary if you're using a carbine.

Just to clear up this 405 grain bullet issue.  The 405 grain bullet was swaged in a three part die and had a hollow base to expand and grab the rifling.  In fact almost all military lead bullets from the .575 Minie to the 500 grain .45 RN used in both the .45-500-70 rifle load and the .45/70 Gatling Gun Ammo in both Black Powder and early smokeless loads, were swaged in three part dies that produced a very precise bullet and was more economical to produce than casting them en mase.

[PJ Hardtack]

Oddly, the poorest accuracy I get with my H&R Cavalry Carbine is with the Lee 405 HB bullets.

[Grapeshot]

Oddly, the poorest accuracy I get with my H&R Cavalry Carbine is with the Lee 405 HB bullets.

Are you casting it out of pure lead?  With only 55 grains of powder, the bullet has to be very soft like the Minnie ball used in muzzle loaders.

[Drydock]

The H&R also has a modern design 8 groove barrel, as opposed to the Milspec 3 groove barrel of the originals, and works better with plain base bullets.

[PJ Hardtack]

I believe that Drydock has provided the answer. I cast the HB 405's from the same alloy as I do other bullet types.

[Jake C]

Just to clear up this 405 grain bullet issue.  The 405 grain bullet was swaged in a three part die and had a hollow base to expand and grab the rifling.  In fact almost all military lead bullets from the .575 Minie to the 500 grain .45 RN used in both the .45-500-70 rifle load and the .45/70 Gatling Gun Ammo in both Black Powder and early smokeless loads, were swaged in three part dies that produced a very precise bullet and was more economical to produce than casting them en mase.

I admit, I am confused. What is the issue here? I don't even use a 405 grain bullet.

[1961MJS]

My own pressure-time curve data with the loads described showed quite acceptable curves. However, most folks would find it easier and pressure self-limiting using BP or equivalent. BTW, factory loads do use smokeless powders (NON-canister grade, however).

Yes, by "dirty" I meant exactly what you stated, especially with IMR3031. Not a problem, except where partially-burned "husks" could get into the breech of a Sharps. Easily blown out with a good puff or by turning the rifle upside down and gently "burping" it.

Hi Trailrider

I just took out my brand new Chiappa Cavalry Sharps today and was a bit freaked out by the husks in the barrel.  This is my first day with a Sharps and this is the first rifle I've had where I can even look down the barrel between shots, so this is the FIRST time I've seen unburnt powder in a barrel.  I was going to get on the forum and see what OTHER powder I should use for the gun, but from what I've seen, IMR 3031 is THE powder for a .45-70 unless you're using the holy black.  Do the unburnt husks any problem?  There are a LOT with 300 grain Sierra jacketed rounds and 38.5 grains of IMF 3031 (minimum from Sierra if memory serves).  I have 500 405 grain lead round nose bullets from Missouri Bullet and the manual shows a starting load of 34.0 grains and a top at 38.5 grains (I'll look before I load).  I would have guessed wrong, because I would have thought a lighter load would fully burn.  I'm using Winchester Large Rifle primers, is there a better primer to use?

This is intended to be a GAF rifle, so using the blow tube between shots wouldn't be real authentic.  Besides trying another primer, any other ideas towards getting a cleaner burn with the 3031?

Thanks and sorry for being Dr. Frankenstein raising the dead...

Being an apartment dweller for now, I don't even like to reload here (I still own a house in a nearby state...), but black powder would probably upset someone if they found out. 

[Trailrider]

Yes, you are likely to see unburned "husks" from IMR3031 with the 405 gr. bullet at these (Trapdoor Springfield) load levels. It isn't a problem, but if it bothers you, you might try IMR4198, with manual-listed loads.  I used 28.0 gr of IMR4198, but added a 2-inch square of single-ply (Scott's) toilet tissue poke gently into the case, NOT compacted, letting the bullet finish compressing it. I hesitate to recommend it to anyone else, though I have never had a problem.  You might want to eliminate the T.P. filler and increase the powder charge, within Trapdoor recommended limits.  With any of these powders, if you get a hangfire, STOP immediately, as that is a sign of too LOW pressures, which could result in the bullet sticking in the forcing cone of the rifling, or worse!

[Abilene]

Quick check of SASS alias list shows no Smokey (or Smoky or Smokie) Bear or The Bear.  So you'd probably be okay there.

p.s. I still have my stuffed Smoky the Bear that I got 63 years ago 

[Galen]

Abilene your lucky. My smokey got tossed when I got drafted.

[Drydock]

According to my manuals you are below minimum loading for that bullet. (300 Jacketed)  You need to check your manuals and work up.  Organic compounds need more pressure for complete combustion.  When not using Black I load XMP 5744 in my 45-70s.  I have had good results with SR 4759, but that has been discontinued.  Reloader 7 is also supposed to be excellent in the Goverment cartridge.

Unburned grains is not uncommon with smokeless rifle powders, and unless they cause chambering problems, are no cause for worry in itself.  But excessive amounts can indicate too LOW a pressure, and erratic performance. IMHO Never load from memory, get the book out.

[1961MJS]

According to my manuals you are below minimum loading for that bullet. (300 Jacketed)  You need to check your manuals and work up.  Organic compounds need more pressure for complete combustion.  When not using Black I load XMP 5744 in my 45-70s.  I have had good results with SR 4759, but that has been discontinued.  Reloader 7 is also supposed to be excellent in the Goverment cartridge.

Unburned grains is not uncommon with smokeless rifle powders, and unless they cause chambering problems, are no cause for worry in itself.  But excessive amounts can indicate too LOW a pressure, and erratic performance. IMHO Never load from memory, get the book out.

Hi, I did check and Sierra's manual is different on the load than the other one I have.  I'll use the Hornaday one for the Lead bullets since Sierra doesn't provide loads for the Lead.  Based on low pressure and erattic performance I'll probably make up loads for IMR-3031, a 405 grain lead round nose, and WLR primers, but NOT start all the way at the minimum.  I fully intend to work out a load in Black Powder, but not this year.  I was definitely shooting a LOW pressure round and have no real reason to do it again. 

Later