New Recruit asking for period help.

[pony express]

We'd be glad to have you, Elhombre, but the Percussion sharps is a bit early for out time frame. Main match rifles have to use a self contained ammunition, no separate percussion caps. A cartridge conversion sharps would be great, but then it wouldn't fit your time frame..... Maybe move up to just after the Civil War? The various C&B pistols you mentioned would work fine for that.

[Drydock]

I would suggest one of the Cimarron "McNelly" carbines: http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/single-shot-rifles-1/single-shot-rifles-sharps/single-shot-rifles-armi-sport/armi-sport-mcnelly-carbine-rifle-50-70-22-in-round-as310.html

This would give a great deal of flexibility.  Rangers, Regulars, Scouts all carried this carbine.  The .50-70 is the one to have, IMHO.  (Disregard the caliber in the text, typo on Cimarrons part)

[elhombreconnonombre]

Well then, I guess I'll just have to be an OLD Ranger with old timey cb six shooters and a "new fangled" post ACW  Sharps carbine conversión.

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[pony express]

Well, if you're an "old" ranger, then you'd fit in pretty well with the rest of us, many portraying "old" soldiers, sailors, etc... 

[elhombreconnonombre]

...or I could work up an impression of a Boer commando during the 1st Boer War of independence using a Martini Henry or a Snider Enfield.

[Drydock]

See there.  Made ya think!   

No end to the possibilities.  Have fun with it!

[RattlesnakeJack]

elhombreconnonombre has continued the discussion somewhat on The High Road forum, and it strikes me that his expression of genuine interest presents an excellent opportunity for us.

Accordingly, I feel that part of his last message there, and my reply, should be repeated here .... for discussion of the potential expansion of firearms classes to incorporate at least a separate cap-and ball revolver/capping breechloader shooting category.  It strikes me that this would be a very good idea, as it would go a good way towards accommodating the transitional firearms of the hitherto unrecognized earliest decade or so of our stated historical emphasis - i.e. "the late Victorian-era military of all nations between 1858 and 1904, with a particular emphasis on American army on the Western Frontier between 1860 and 1900".

The relevant portion of elhombre's post there (with emphasis added by me) -

I am gonna start out as a post ACW federalized Texas Ranger officer using just my c&b revolvers: Walkers, Navys, and Remingtons - no rifle, then try the Scout class after I obtain a réplica Sharps cartridge conversión carbine. Maybe work up an impression of a Boer commando or British infantryman using a Martini Henry during the 1st Boer War of indepedence. I think I will like this GAF shooting format. You can compete with only a single shot cartridge longarm or a single/multiple cb or cartridge sidearms. The musters are held once a year in the various geographical departments. Membership is free, but unfortunately no local GAF groups, like SASS has numerous local possees. It is s relatively young Sport, but growing in popularity.

Note that when he first inquired, he had in mind using c&b revolvers and a capping breechloader rifle, but seems to have been talked out of the rifle already by responses here.  That got me to thinking: why shouldn't we make specific allowance for c&b revolvers and/or at least capping breechloader rifles?  they certainly fit within the stated time-frame of GAF!  Here, for what it may be worth, is my response onTHR forum, in its entirety -

The current format of GAF shooting events has, indeed, moved toward a "skirmish" format .... somewhat like a black powder "trail walk", but timed and with a "must kill" requirement for every target.

A competitor in the "Staff Officer" category shoots through using only a handgun as you have noted. Although GAF shooting is currently oriented toward fixed-cartridge firearms - with a "Staff Officer" using a single handgun, reloaded as needed - I see no insurmountable reason why separate cap-and-ball and/or capping breechloader classes couldn't be added .... presumably allowing the carriage of two or more handguns (and/or spare charged, but uncapped, cylinders along the lines of the SASS rules.) Such a category or categories would certainly open up the sport to participants who want to portray an early impression from "the late Victorian-era military of all nations between 1858 and 1904, with a particular emphasis on American army on the Western Frontier between 1860 and 1900" (Note .... this quote came directly from the "Mission Statement" as set out on the GAF website.)

As might be expected with any sport in which a competitive element exists, I have noted a bit of a tendency in the past few years for competitors to concentrate more on the latter part of this time-frame .... i.e. shooting repeating - usually bolt-action - rifles and late-model handguns, firing smokeless loads .... and have accordingly agitated (hopefully with some success) for a clear recognition and encouragement of the use of the earlier single-shot rifles and black-powder loads. Indeed, there seemed to be a growing tendency of match organizers to lump the differing firearms designs and propellant types together for scoring purposes - which was perhaps somewhat understandable in view of the relatively small number of competitors and wide variety of weapons used. However, it is now hopefully being recognized that someone shooting a black-powder single shot should not have to compete head-to-head with others using smokeless repeating rifles.

The mandated time-frame of approximately four decades covers the single most concentrated period of firearms development in history - ranging from cap-and-ball muzzle-loaders to smokeless repeating (and even semi-automatic) rifles and handguns. I continue to maintain that, as with the various SASS shooting classes, it is only fair that GAF shooting participants using comparable firearms and loads should compete in their own distinct categories.

I have also pointed out that this sort of approach need not bankrupt shoot organizers when it comes to recognition of the winners - fancy expensive medals or the like are unnecessary (and, if other shooters are like me, are really unwanted.) Certificates or the like (easily produced as needed with a computer and printer) are more than sufficient. We do this for the fun and challenge, after all ... not for the hardware we might win.

[Drydock]

(A respectfully offered counterpoint)

Welllll . . . I understand the sentiment, but from my point of view, what we do is well defined.  We emphasize the cartridge rifles of the Victorian era.  We cannot be all things to all people, tempting as that can be.  How many classes does SASS have now?  Somewhere North of 40 last I counted.  We have our Niche, it is ours and no one else's.

BTW we already make allowances for C&B revolvers, one may carry and or stage as many charged revolvers as one wants, with capping done on the clock in liu of reloading.

There is another organization trying to get off the ground, the American Plainsmen.  Their Niche is the Pre cartridge percussion era, with some overlap (Henrys and Spencers).  I have no desire to walk on their field.  They recently voted down an expansion to the rifles of 1873/4, so as not to further overlap with us.

The NSSA also has compititions for Percussion breachloaders as well.  Various Muzzleloader groups do "Woods walk" scenarios, one of the inspirations for our own Skirmish Runs.  Percussion breechloaders are welcome at these.

We do need to emphasize that our weapons compete only in class, and that the single shots are at no disadvantage to the later Repeaters.  Frankly, I think the current surge in Smokeless repeaters is simply due to the fact that they are easier to obtain, and at lower prices than the earlier Single shots or their reproductions.  An Historical oddity is that it is the earlier rifles that are being reproduced, at much higher cost than most available surplus repeaters. This includes Percussion breechloaders, on average rather more expensive than an M1898 infantry Krag, as an example.

 I would see someone getting the relatively inexpensive repeater first, then later going deeper into the GAF with a single shot as a natural progression. Finaly learning to load Black Powder cartridges.  This seems to be what is happening, and I keep careful watch on it.  

IMHO please, have a cup of camp coffee on me!

[Drydock]

I must say, what I found encouraging was that once the format was explained, he immediately adapted to it!

[pony express]

Frankly, I think the current surge in Smokeless repeaters is simply due to the fact that they are easier to obtain, and at lower prices than the earlier Single shots or their reproductions.

I think this is the main reason. With the US rifles, at least the cost is similar between a trapdoor and a Krag, but with most foreign rifles, the earlier single shots tend to be quite a bit more expensive than their repeater counterparts. I only paid $235 for the Lebel that I used at the Muster, but I've never seen a Gras in similar condition for anywhere near that price. If I did, I'd be shooting one! Same goes for the other transitional bolt guns, like the BP Mausers and Italian Vetterli.

[Pitspitr]

Personally, I wish I could shoot 3 or 4 classes at a Muster. I really enjoy shooting my Trapdoors and my early revolvers, but I also really enjoy shooting my Krag and double action S&W. I'm working toward getting set up to shoot my Spencer and my Remington conversion. Plus I really have enjoyed shooting the Infantry and Staff Officer 1 gun classes. Forager is really the only class I can't see myself really getting into.

[Niederlander]

Not only are the rifles themselves usually more expensive, but oftentimes the BRASS is horribly expensive!  I would love to have gotten a Snider or a Martini-Henry, but I can't afford $3 a piece for brass!

[pony express]

Not only are the rifles themselves usually more expensive, but oftentimes the BRASS is horribly expensive!  I would love to have gotten a Snider or a Martini-Henry, but I can't afford $3 a piece for brass!

I'd need to have a hand loading outfit, and reload at the range between stages!

I'd like shooting 2 classes, too! But it seems we've about outgrown the possibility of doing that already. Lots of combinations that could use the same basic uniform, besides the Krag/Trapdoor. I was thinking Lebel/Gras. Or maybe Mauser 1871/GEW88. Or you could use a Rolling Block and about any Spanish/South American Mauser. One outfit, 2 sets of guns!!

[RattlesnakeJack]

I see the logic of your points, Chuck ..... and if elhombre is good with it, no sense "fixing what ain't broke", so to speak.  Glad to hear about the existing provisions for percussion revolvers .... I was either unaware of them or had forgotten .....

[Lord Eoin MacKenzie]

FYI.....Atlanta Cutlery has Sniders and Martinis in stock....SOG International has Mosin-Nagant Hex receiver rifles' 91/30 model with bayonet. and 7.5 Swiss 6 shot rifles along with other period style rifles.