Pedersoli or Uberti (Trapdoor carbine)

[Doug.38PR]

Uberti and Pedersoli both make the Trapdoor Carbine.  I've heard, in this forum, about Pedersoli's proof test quality.  What about Uberti?   

Which one of these two are better all around?  Pros and cons

[Drydock]

Pedersoli is the only manufacturer of reproduction Trapdoors.   

[Doug.38PR]

 
Really?

Not according to:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=96219
http://www.uberti.com/firearms/springfield_trapdoor.php


I just looked it up at a local gunstore with a dealer.  He found it available in their catalog

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[Marshal Deadwood]

Trapdoors,,,,as of now ,,,are the one gun you can still buy a GOOD shoot-able original cheaper than you can buy a reproduction. I bought a very, very pristine 50-70 , 1869  TD for 500 dollars. Granted, I was a wee bit lucky to have a good friend that is a foremost athourity on trapdoors scouting from me one, but if you want a 1873 or an 1880's model,,and are careful and diligent in looking, you can beat reproduction prices,,and still have a piece of shoot-able history.

You will probably pay more for a carbine, but you can get a rifle and convert it.

[Doug.38PR]

That's good to know.  However it's also my understnading that reproductions (or at least Pedersoli's) can handle hotter loads than originals and have been factory proofed with heavier loads than originals

[JimBob]

 The weakness of the trapdoor has more to do with the design of the action and not the materials it's made of.Although a modern repro might handle loads beyond what is recommended the inherent weakness of the action is still a factor to be considered.

[Ranch 13]

There's no difference in proof test pressures of the Italian guns, they are all sent to the government proof house and tested with proof ammo.
 The trapdoor action will take quite a bit more pressure than is commonly thought.
 MDeadwood had is right tho you can find good to excellent US trapdoors for less money than one of the imports..

[Pitspitr]

I own originals and reproductions. And yes, my reproductions did cost more.
The reason I was willing to give more for the reproductions is that, as a historian, I like the idea of not dinging up a historic firearm. The what I found out was that with modern ammunition ( the off the shelf variety) the reproduction is more accurate. AND PLEASE DON'T BUTCHER A RIFLE INTO A CARBINE! If you're going to do that buy a cheap trapdoor that someone else already butchered. Or buy parts and put one together from parts.

[Doug.38PR]

I own originals and reproductions. And yes, my reproductions did cost more.
The reason I was willing to give more for the reproductions is that, as a historian, I like the idea of not dinging up a historic firearm.

^
This.   I want to have one to shoot, carry in the bush, on horseback, etc.

[Drydock]

All current reproductions are made by Pedersoli.  This weapon is MARKETED by several labels, Uberti being one.  BTW Uberti and Pedersoli are both owned by Berretta.  Different divisions of the same company.   You get one, it'll come in a Uberti box, with a note inside telling to to direct all warrenty claims to Pedersoli.

In any case, I have one (Marketed through Cherrys.  A 125th anniversary model) and it is an excellent weapon.  The Trapdoor, or "Yeilding Breech" design, is stronger than many assume, but its by no means a "Magnum" action.  I would definatly stay in the "Trapdoor" section of any loading manual for it.  

[Doug.38PR]

^
Ahhh.  Good to know about Uberti and Pedersoli (means both are the same and equally good because they are one and the same)  
Will the action handle anything off the shelf from Acadamy or your local gunstore?   My reloading Speer reloading manuel suggest the trapdoor can be an excellent hunting arm.

How does the Trapdoor compare to other actions of the same cartridge?  Like the Sharps (called a rolling block right?)  or the Lever Action?

[pony express]

Sharps and Rolling block are totally different actions. As far as how they compare, I can't say from personal experience, since I only own a trapdoor, of those three. But my best guess is, among the reproductions of those three, probably one will shoot as good as another. Probably as much variations in individual rifles of one type, as there is between the three different ones.

[Niederlander]

All of these actions are more than capable of handling the pressures they were designed for.  People get in trouble when they try to "hot rod" them.  I'm a big proponent of using a bigger or stronger gun if you need more performance.

[SGT John Chapman]

Load your rounds down with 70grns of 3f Black,.... and top it off with a 405 grn slug and you will be asking how far you can load it down ,....not up.....

[Pitspitr]

How does the Trapdoor compare to other actions of the same cartridge?  Like the Sharps (called a rolling block right?)  or the Lever Action?

I have a Pedersoli Sharps (which are falling blocks), an original Remington rolling block and several trapdoors including a Pedersoli.  The Remington is probably the fastest of the actions, and I'm told, the strongest. The Sharps is said to be the next strongest, though I doubt you can get enough blackpowder in a cartridge to cause problems in any of these rifles. I haven't proofed any of these rifles to test the strength of their actions so my comments on strength are just hearsay and should be taken as such.

One final comment on Pedersoli's: they aren't exact copies of the original guns, and as such many of the parts won't interchange. They ARE however very well built rifles. Anyone who says otherwise is simply being a snob.

[smoke]

I don't need one but If I were in the market for another 'door I would be searching for a nice used H&R.   Cheaper than originals and much cheaper than a new repro.  Hmmm....there is one sitting down at the local pawn shop.

[winchets]

I have found a pedersoli carbine and am getting ready to reload for it, My question is am I limited to black powder or can I use the loads in modern reloading manuals specifically designated as Trapdoor loads?

I have a sharps 40-65  by the same maker and I shoot AA5744 in it.  the PO shot this load and black powder when he used this rifle for silloutes.

I did notice that the beloved Trail boss is listed in the Hodgon website  with 12  to 13 gr  under a 405 lead bullet but it has the lowest velocity(971) and the highest pressure(24,500 CUP)

other powders  like Varget 4198, &3031 all have velocity in the 1400's and pressures  around 15,000-17,000.

the pedersoli website lists a reload under 18,000 CUP as being recommended

[Drydock]

You may use any smokeless load listed as safe in the trapdoor action.  I occasionally shoot 5744 loads in both my original rifle and repro carbine.

[Good Troy]

I own a Pedersoli TD Carbine, and previously an H&R.  I mainly (almost exclusively) have shot black powder in these.  However,   I have shot a few hundred rounds with smokeless, both Trail Boss and IMR 4198.  I used published data for these smokeless powders listed for the trapdoor action, and I recommend that others do the same.  

The TD carbine is a rather light rifle.  I have shot some 405 gr bullets with IMR 4198 just below published TD max loads.  These were loads I was using in a 30" full octagonal barrel Highwall.  After one range session with these horse killers, I went to a lighter load.  I currently shoot 55 grains of 2F BP under 405 g RNFP, and a circle fly card (wad) to give some compression.  This load is similar to what was used by the military for the carbine in the 19th century.  It will still kill a horse, has no problem with knock down targets, but milder on the shoulder.

[Major 2]

I don't need one but If I were in the market for another 'door I would be searching for a nice used H&R.   Cheaper than originals and much cheaper than a new repro.  Hmmm....there is one sitting down at the local pawn shop.

I'd agree with this statement, I found a H&R cavalry carbine in a pawn shop in in Franklin NC.  I got it $350
Shot it for years....
I had guy want it so bad, he offered a crazy # ...he was crazy, but not me, I took it !
looked for cops, as I banked the profit 

I miss the carbine, but smile when I think it paid for my 73 Short Rifle & then some !