Author Topic: Cartridge loops.  (Read 7909 times)

Offline wyldwylliam

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Cartridge loops.
« on: April 02, 2013, 07:28:10 PM »
I recently read a statement concerning cartridge belts which said that woven or semi-woven bullet loops are more period correct than sewn loops.

This didn't really sit well with me so I just had a close look at every artifact cartridge belt illustrated in AGE OF THE GUNFIGHTER by Joseph G. Rosa and out of the dozen or so pictured belts from back in the day only one had woven loops and that is acknowledged as being "late."

However, that is just one book and I'm just one amateur historian so I would like to ask others' opinions and or citations of evidence one way or the other as to what was more widely used from the 1870's to 1900: woven or sewn?

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:19:51 PM »
Quote
The oldest Wyoming patent was issued to Anson Mills, a Captain of the Eighteenth Infantry and Brevet Lt. Colonel of the U.S. Army stationed at Fort Bridger, Utah Territory, now located in Uinta County, Wyoming. Patent number 67,898 for an “Improvement in Cartridge-Belts” was issued on August 20, 1867...

http://www-wsl.state.wy.us/sis/ptdl/PatentsInWyoming.pdf



Offline pony express

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 08:29:31 PM »
For military use, leather sewn loops came first, then to be replaced by the woven later to prevent corroded cartridge cases. I expect leather was used on most civilian gunbelts.

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #3 on: Today at 09:08:08 AM »

Offline wyldwylliam

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 01:30:25 AM »
Thanks a lot for the replies, Compadres, but I seem to have been unclear. The woven belts I'm referring to are also leather, it is just a term denoting loops which are not sewn, but are fashioned by cutting slots in the leather of the main part of the belt and threading a narrow strip thru the slots to form loops.

Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2013, 09:45:11 AM »
They all are correct, depends on the maker, the region, time period, style of belt.

I make all three styles myself, two different woven styles and sewn loops. Depends on what the customer wants, look, style of the belt itself, etc.

I would have to say I've seen more original sewn loops on 1880 and later belts but those are also almost always a money belt which very few Cowboy action shooters wear.

A huge percentage of cowboy action shooters are wearing a belt that would have never been seen prior to the 1920's so the style of bullet loops being correct is pretty much a moot point for most.

Even in NCOWS many of the belts shooters are wearing are not very correct in one way or the other.

I guess what I'm saying is if your worried about period authenticity of the bullet loops you want to pay close attention to the belt itself and what style would have been seen on that belt for the period and region your rig is to represent.

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Offline wyldwylliam

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 08:24:38 PM »
Thanks Cliff. i hear ya about the lack of authenticity, as I've heard so many times, CAS is a fantasy sport and authenticity is not a priority. One of the reasons I quit going to matches a number of years ago, as authenticity and historical accuracy are very important to me.

Anyhow, just wanted to throw this out there as the woven belt style is not something I've seen very often in period pieces, either in museums or books.

Guess for now I'll stick to sewn loops. If somebody at some point learns me better, then I'll revisit the question.

Good ridin' to all of you!

Offline Fox Creek Kid

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 10:29:20 PM »
FWIW, I have never seen a documented CANVAS ctg. belt that predates the first military issue in 1876. Every single ctg. belt I have seen that predates this was made of leather. To be frank, other than professional hunters & soldiers the average layman probably saw no need for one. I speak of ctg. belts and not gunbelts, per se.

Offline WaddWatsonEllis

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 11:11:38 PM »
Hi,

Since my main match guns are a pair of Schofields, I felt comfortable using a poly pro/cotton blend canvas for my shot gun cartridge belt loops ... I mean, if the Schofield was not issued until the mid-1870s time should be n my side ....



Seattle Fabrics (www.seattlefabrics.com/) not only has great customer service  but is willing to sell bits down to six feet...

In fact, I liked using the stuff so much that I am making .45-70 loops out of 2" medium brown webbing ...

My moniker is my great grandfather's name. He served with the 2nd Florida Mounted Regiment in the Civil War. Afterward, he came home, packed his wife into a wagon, and was one of the first NorteAmericanos on the Frio River southwest of San Antonio ..... Kinda where present day Dilley is ...

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Offline G.W. Strong

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2013, 05:58:01 PM »
This is fascinating. I am very interested in historical accuracy. I had always believed that sewn loops were the only way they were done in the later 19th century. However, from what I read above, some loops of leather passed through slots (Woven loops) were also used in this period. Is this correct? If so can someone point me to an image of a pre 1900 belt with this used? It is not that i doubt you or am asking you to prove this I just want to see it for myself. Perhaps too many visits to the show me state.  ;D
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: Cartridge loops.
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2013, 08:29:45 PM »
I know the book packing iron has pictures of early woven loop belts, otherwise just look around and you'll find some originals or photos.

The best I can tell from studying photos and original pieces, it appears the woven loops were done more on earlier belts and very little toward the turn of the century. Most photos and original rigs I see from late in the 19th century are money belts so this could be one reason, the other may be because leather stitching machines were being commonly used by most prominent saddlers by the mid 80's.
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