ASM 1860 Conversion cylinder

[reno]

Just a thought. Do you think you could make a slight step down on the back of a cylinder off a ASM Conversion without losing to much metal off the cylinder to where the bolt would not lock up the bolt notches and make the cylinder over rotate, to make it look like a cylinder off a 1860 Army?
Just a thought.

[Coffinmaker]

Actually ... NO.  First, The Colt 1851, 1860 and 1861 were ALL built on the 1851 frame.  The 1861 was built on an unaltered 1851 frame.  The 1860 was built on a modified 1851 frame.  The frame for the 1860 had a rebate milled in the forward water table to accept the enlarged 1860 cylinder.  The base area of the cylinder is the same size as the 1851 cylinder.  The 1860 chambers stop short of the locking bolt slots. 

A key point is the 1861 was built from an unmodified '51 frame and the 1851 cylinder.  Look at the ASM "1860" conversion will show an unmodified water table and an unmodified 1851 cylinder.  The ASM "1860" Designation is derived from the the Army Pattern, larger grip assembly.  The ASM 1860 is actually built on 1861 patterns. 

Were you to put the cylinder in a lathe and durn down the back of the cylinder, you would move the socking bolt slot AWAY from the Bolt.  There would not only be a very large (ugly) space between the water table and cylinder, the bolt would probably not reach the locking slots at all.

If you absolutely MUST have an 1860 conversion, start with a Pietta 1860 and fit a Gated Kirst Konverter.  You won't have a First Model Richards but it will be as close as you can get for less than 2 1/2 or three grand.

[reno]

Thanks again Coffinmaker, I thought it would trouble with bolt and opening in the frame.
Thanks again,
Reno

[Advertising]

[Coffinmaker]

Just as an additional.  Neither Colt, nor ASM ever built a conversion for 45 Colt.  The 45 Colt cartridge was too large in diameter for actual size cylinders.  Cylinder walls were too thin and the rims of the 45 Colt cartridges interfered with each other.

The largest cartridge fit to the conversions was 44 Colt.  The 44 Colt cartridge was the same outside diameter as the diameter of the bore.  Outside lubed heal based bullets of about 451 were used.  The cartridge (44 Colt) was 456 diameter and the 45 Colt 480.  The 480 diameter 45 colt made the cylinder walls too thin.

Enter Uberti.  Uberti increased the size of their guns by a goodly percentage to allow for a much larger cylinder.  While looking like an 1860 from 3 feet, they are considerably larger.  Also, Uberti increased the size of the Open Top to also accept 45 Colt.  In my view, this is/was a mistake.  I do not feel the Open Top cylinders have enough chamber walls for the the 45 Colt.  Uberti proofed them for 45 Colt, but I observed 45 Colt Open Top cylinders spitting out the super thin bottom of the 45 Colt locking bolt slots.  Weird to look down the slot and see brass.  I would hope no one would be foolish to heavy load a 45 Colt Open Top.  Would not be a harmonious outcome.

45 Colt conversions in more accurately sized guns/cylinders waited for R&D and Walt Kirst.  Both R&D and Kirst solved the problem by going to 5 shot cylinders made from much sterner stuff than original Colt cylinders.  I have built several Kirst Konverter guns on Pietta frames and they look the Bizz and also happen to work very well.  I happen to also have a pair of Uberti 17/72 Open Tops chambered in 45 Schofield.  I've shot those guns for 20 years.  Currently I only shoot C45S cartridges either loaded light smokeless (not for 10 or so years) or loaded with APP/BP.

[reno]

All my ASM Conversions are 44 Colt and 38 Spl. and all my Ubertis are 44 Colt. I know they had trouble with a few Uberti 45 LC, Converions but you and others covered them pretty good on the split barrels. As for myself I would never buy a Conversion in 45 LC. but I just like the 44s and 38s.Thanks again
Reno