Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => The Powder Room - CAS reloading => Topic started by: Slamfire on October 30, 2022, 12:56:07 PM
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What is (are), the max loads w/ WW231-HP38, for our 44-40, ( 92 Rossi w/24") Rifles, just shooting targets. I will be shooting across my chrono.
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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Easy to look up on Hodgdon's site:
With 200 gr bullet, minimum 5.5gr HP38, max 6.5gr.
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Thank you Sir, been awhile for the 44-40, was thinking 6.2gr. last time i used WW231. I have 2# that's been on the shelf 3-4yrs., times being what they are (with prices) it will make some nice target loads.
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
PS; I'm not really lazy just trying to stir the pot, as it were.
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Lymans 49th shows 6.2 to 6.9 with a Lyman 427098 215gr for revolvers. No mention of 231 for rifles.
Keep us informed
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Count on "it".
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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If it's a safe load for revolvers, it will be safe for the rifle also. Maybe not as efficient in a rifle as a slower burning powder would be, but still safe.
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Loaded 20 rds. w/ 6.9 gns. of WW231, 10rds.w/ Fed. LP primers & 10rds.w/ WWLP primers. Will be shooting my 92 Rossi w/ 24" barrel.
Using 427098, .218gn. PC'd (ford blue).
"Now" to get the ARK settled and the animals unloaded (yup been raining), then, the front steps (treated wood) replaced w/ handrails, about a 6-8hr. job (yea, back in the day) using screws makes it seem fast'er . If i start early Mon. morn'n should be on the range Wensday-ish afternoon. Will post results (ta-da).
coffee time Hootmix.
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I highly recommend Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook. Covers loadings for weaker actions & stonger ones also (such as M92).
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How clean is 231?
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https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=54
Not a direct link but a couple of steps away from load data.
Hodgdon lists HP38/W231 (same powder) for 44WCF rifle
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According to that link, max rifle load is only 1,020fps. That is a horrible velocity for a rifle load.
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horrible velocity for a rifle load for hunting but for CAS or GAF no big deal with approx 1100 fps.
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BA, is right , 1020fps is a terrible rifle load!! Mine were loaded w/6.8gns. of W231 & Fed LR primers, a couple years ago for my 1875 Outlaw (44-40), but made a good day at the range. Then i loaded 6.9gns., of W231, w/ WLP primers, the fps went up to 1053 to 1071 for a 5 shot groupe at 50 yds., 2rds., in same hole, 2rds., 1"apart & 1rd., 3" out (pulled it). But i like RL-7 or IMR 4198 waaaaaay better.
Lite loads are still accurate and lots of fun to shoot in my 92 Rossi.
coffee's ready, Hootmix
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BA, is right , 1020fps is a terrible rifle load!! Mine were loaded w/6.8gns. of W231 & Fed LR primers, a couple years ago for my 1875 Outlaw (44-40), but made a good day at the range. Then i loaded 6.9gns., of W231, w/ WLP primers, the fps went up to 1053 to 1071 for a 5 shot groupe at 50 yds., 2rds., in same hole, 2rds., 1"apart & 1rd., 3" out (pulled it). But i like RL-7 or IMR 4198 waaaaaay better.
Lite loads are still accurate and lots of fun to shoot in my 92 Rossi.
coffee's ready, Hootmix
Great report Hootmix!!!
horrible velocity for a rifle load for hunting but for CAS or GAF no big deal with approx 1100 fps.
Truth,
Gallery loads never were my cup-a-tea, but they can certainly be accurate and fun to shoot for many.
Hootmix,
I never did get many cartridge examples from the 50's and 60's. While I was working on it, the prices for that type ammo jumped from $35 a box (cause no one wanted it) to $75/$125 a box. That is were I left off. That along with primer prices jumping from $35 a brick to $125 a brick...that sealed the end of my research.
My powder examples,
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jy0pGqWPRx2HOQqufbcnEM1lv6tCWBJsCOB8vLIDOIg/edit#gid=1905899731
Rifle Performance - 1,310fps (excluding the proof sets)
5 July 1950 - Winchester, 15.3gr of ball powder, date code CH22.
21 Sept 1963 - Winchester Proof, 16.3gr of flattened ball powder, date code UK21
Rifle Performance - 1,190fps (excluding proof sets)
4 April 1974 - Winchester Proof, 7.2gr flake/disk w/greenish specks, date code HD40
1974ish - Remington, 8.8gr of flake/disk
20 April 1976 - Western, 12.1gr flattened ball powder, date code LD02[/li][/list]
The 44-40 went from being loaded as a rifle cartridge for rifles...that performed okay in revolvers, to being loaded as a revolver cartridge for revolvers...that do not perform well in rifles.
These pistol powders perform better in pistols than they do rifles.
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BA, i have noticed just switching primers can make from 50fps. to 100-150fps (depending on powder used). I shoot mostly PC'd bullets now days, but have not found any noticeable difference in accuracy w/ lubed. And yes sir, price's today sure keeps my shooting down
WWLR primers keeps my 4198 loads in the mid 1440 + range, but the best accuracy is in the mid 1300fps. range (for my 92). This is a great cartridge to reload. Now as for WW231, i think 7-7.1 gns. in a solid 92 would be do-able & SAFE,,, what'cha think ??
coffee's ready, Hootmix
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Taffin writes, in 2003, of using 7.0gr of 231, safe for all rifles. He reports using a 24" 1860 Henry @ only 1,178fps.
Hodgdon Reloading 2013 Annual Manual calls for 6.5gr of 231 for 1,020fps @ 12,400PSI from a 20" barrel. What concerns me is the use of "PSI" rather than CUP because we all know they are not the same. One can only assume it should be CUP, because 12,400PSI would be well over SAAMI max of 13,000cup. SAAMI's max for PSI is 11,000PSI
Thus, the 92' can do better since it was approved for Winchester's 18,000cup (15,228PSI) 44 HV loads
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According to that link, max rifle load is only 1,020fps. That is a horrible velocity for a rifle load.
1020 fps will massacree umpteen many beer cans about as fast as you wanna crank 'er!
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To answer RRio, 231 shoots clean in my 92. Sir Charles, i much prefer those little lite green tennis balls at 50yds just to watch'um jump when hit (sinical laugh) with 231 loads.
I do load according to my 49th. Lyman Edition, but i am learning from folks like those who have been their & done that, just as well.
Thank to all for the feed back & reply's.
coffee's ready, Hootmix.
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1020 fps will massacree umpteen many beer cans about as fast as you wanna crank 'er!
Yes, refer to post #13
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I prefer golf balls at 265 yards (range claims 300 yards) but......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdrUfzgFjUs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdrUfzgFjUs)
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YEOWWWW, the only reason you hit the ball (replay & watch), was because it was "moving"(Ha-ha-ha-ha)!!!!. BA, you have done some really great work w/ the 44-40, and sharing your work with all of us, thank you.
See post #13, 1974ish w/ Remington,, amazing!!!
all this typ'n makes me dry,,, more coffee. Hootmix.
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A better load for rifles in 44 WCF is the 200 grain powder coated lead flat point bullet over 14.7 grains of 2400. It will easily surpass the velocity and accuracy of 231 loads in a rifle.
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Thanks Hootmix, I am glad someone enjoyed it. ;D