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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Frontier Iron => Topic started by: 9245 on March 18, 2021, 01:29:46 PM

Title: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 9245 on March 18, 2021, 01:29:46 PM
I’m continuing to explore whether I want to do a cartridge conversion on my 1858 Remingtons or, for as much as that will cost, get something else specifically for cartridge shooting.  Unfortunately though my budget is limited so I am exploring more budget friendly options.  I see Single Action Armys sold in the right price range range ($400-$600) but I’m not a fan of the Single Action Army.  Unfortunately more capable options like the Schofield basically double the price.  That brings me to the 1875 Remington, it’s about the same price as the Single Action Armys and I like the Remington designs and it would fit with the theme of my 1858 Remingtons.  However it appears to basically be a Single Action Army copy, but I am intrigued by the captive cylinder pin so it has me considering it.

Does it have a hot swappable cylinder like the 1858 Remington?  The captive cylinder pin suggests it does.  How practical is that?  Is there any historical evidence that that was done?

Does it have hammer notches or firing pin rests like the 1858 that will allow the hammer to rest between chambers and carry all 6 chambers loaded safely?

Do the current production (uberti?) .44-40s have the same accuracy issues as the original .44-40s or do they have the correct barrel?

Does it have any other differences from the Single Action Army?
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Jeremiah Jones on March 18, 2021, 03:12:51 PM
I have a Urberti Remington 1875 in .45 and a Cimarron SAA also in .45. 

Does it have a hot swappable cylinder like the 1858 Remington?  YES The captive cylinder pin suggests it does.  How practical is that?  I have never had a reason to.

Does it have hammer notches or firing pin rests like the 1858 that will allow the hammer to rest between chambers and carry all 6 chambers loaded safely? No, but most have transfer bar or other safety.  But, I carry mine with 5 rounds loaded.

I like the distinctive looks of the Remington, but they both shoot great.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Drydock on March 18, 2021, 07:20:26 PM
 The Uberti Remington operates just like the current SAA in all facets, though with a much longer cylinder pin.  It's one of the things that is NOT original, as both the original  1875 and follow on 1890 used a screw to retain the pin much like the early SAA.

However!  You'ld be faster by practicing your ejection (advance the cylinder with the palm of your left hand, while using the left index finger to work the ejector) and use a corked tube to dump in your reloads while spinning the cylinder.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: RattlesnakeJack on March 18, 2021, 11:02:52 PM
I have been shooting Uberti 1875 Remington clones for a couple of decades now, and have found them to be both accurate and reliable.  Mine are chambered in .45 Colt.

Fairly early on, having determined that a pretty high percentage of original Model 1875 Remingtons had lanyard rings and (being located in the erstwhile British Empire) really liking that look, I was puzzled why the repros have never been offered with that option, whereas the Model 1890 repros were offered with a lanyard ring.  I resolved the dilemma by purchasing the necessary "M'1890 spare parts" and fitting them to my 1875's ... gives them a rather unique, yet period-correct, look ...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/900x586q90/924/UDwsPY.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/744x525q90/922/m3VCqf.jpg)
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Jeremiah Jones on March 19, 2021, 12:40:14 PM
Thank for the idea RSJ.  I know where some of my Biden Bucks will be going.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 9245 on March 23, 2021, 09:25:28 AM
I have continued to research this and see that apparently older reproductions had the same 4 click hammer as the Single Action Army (which also means they have the same issue of only being able to safely load 5 chambers), but newer ones have the 3 click hammer and can load all chambers safely.  It appears that Uberti just uses the same action as the Single Action Army.  What did the original have?  Was it also a 4 click hammer like the Single Action Army?
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Dave T on March 23, 2021, 12:57:22 PM
9245,

I have to ask why you are so hung up on being able to load 6 rounds in your period style revolver, what ever it turns out to be? None of the shooting organizations allow carrying 6 rounds in the gun and historically most folks didn't either. Kind of like your desire to "speed reload". They didn't swap cylinders in the old days, they carried a second pistol. And again, I know of no competition that regularly calls for reloading under the clock. If they did, swapping loaded cylinders shouldn't be allowed. To bloody dangerous.

Dave
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 9245 on March 23, 2021, 06:13:02 PM
9245,

I have to ask why you are so hung up on being able to load 6 rounds in your period style revolver, what ever it turns out to be? None of the shooting organizations allow carrying 6 rounds in the gun and historically most folks didn't either. Kind of like your desire to "speed reload". They didn't swap cylinders in the old days, they carried a second pistol. And again, I know of no competition that regularly calls for reloading under the clock. If they did, swapping loaded cylinders shouldn't be allowed. To bloody dangerous.

Dave

Two reasons:

I just mentally don’t like the idea of having a “six shooter” that can only load 5.

I don’t JUST want the revolver for competition, while that may be the main and intended purpose I’m a “working gun” kind of guy and like the idea that if I HAD to I could carry the revolver for defense as originally designed or hunting if I were so inclined.

I’ll take you through my mental journey so far:

This started because of the ammo crisis, ammunition is near impossible to find, especially in the more popular modern calibers, but less common calibers and “cowboy” calibers are occasionally available.  I DO have ammo for my modern guns, but not enough to feel comfortable that in an extended scenario I would not run out and I do not have enough to go to the range, ammo is gold and irreplaceable.

My first move was to start getting in to reloading, I’m setup with a nice progressive press, ultra sonic cleaner, brass processor, lead melting pot, digital scale, and everything else I need.  Except die sets are as impossible to find as ammo, I can reload .38 special, .357 Magnum, and .45 ACP, that’s it.  Likewise, bullet molds are impossible to find, I have a 20 pound capacity downward pouring lead pot but not a single mold except for an ingot mold.  Primers are also completely impossible to find unless you pay a scalper, which I refuse to do, I have been hunting for primers since fall and in that entire time I have found exactly ONE box of primers, a 1,000 count box of small rifle primers which I only got last week, I found it by luck.  I have only fired brass, and no bullets but gunpowder is oddly readily available.  I can make primers one at a time if I have to.  So reloading did not solve the issue.

I next looked at cap and ball revolvers.  I can’t find percussion caps and they seem to be sold out of every store in the entire country, but fortunately I can make them.  I have gun powder but I can make that too.  I have no bullet molds and they are sold out everywhere, but theoretically if I can find one I can make my own bullets, so a cap and ball revolver gives me theoretically unlimited ammo.  I researched it and found the 1858 Remington to be the best choice because of the hot swappable cylinder and less cap jams.  However all cap and ball revolvers were also sold out everywhere.  In desperation, I bought an Armi San Marco’s one from gunbroker not realizing that it was out of production and spare parts and extra cylinders were impossible to find.  I then started looking for others again, I called EMF to see when they might be back in stock and found out that I got lucky and they just got 100 in, I ordered one.

I now had two 1858 Remingtons and decided I liked them, not only did they solve my issue of never being able to go to the range and having no way to resupply ammo (provided I could continue to buy bullets as I still lack a bullet mold) they were fun too.  I became interested in the period and other designs and started thinking about cartridge conversions to use some of those occasionally available cowboy cartridges.  As I researched that it renewed my interest in the old west in general and of course got me thinking about cowboy action shooting.  I then realized that I already had two revolvers so already had a good start on what I had to have and I became more interested, and now I’m here.

So that is my thought process, yes I intend to use it in competition but I also will be using it as a range gun and it could conceivably be pressed in to service for other uses as well so I want it to be as capable as I can.

And I am aware of the irony that I am interested in a hobby that requires crap loads of ammo during a time when I can barely find 1 random box and only became interested because of attempting to find a way around the ammo shortage.

Unfortunately I do not anticipate the ammo shortage ending for years, the manufacturers have about a two year back order and as things destabilize more and more new gun owners are created that have to get ammo and existing ones continue to prep for even more.  And it isn’t even riot season again yet, and the media has not yet created a panic for a new made up virus variant to justify more power grabs.  Not to mention looming war.  Hell I almost bought a flint lock and would have had I actually gotten an answer about where to get an antique Brown Bess lock fitted to a reproduction stock that was not inletted instead of a bunch of people telling me how it was perfectly “reasonable” to pay $3,000 to have that done.  I got fed up and bought the cap and ball revolver.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: DeaconKC on March 23, 2021, 06:28:49 PM
Okay, with your explanation I understand where you are coming from. I would like to offer something to consider. Ruger has made several Blackhawk and Vaquero models that come with conversion cylinders, there are 45 Colt and .45 ACP, .357 Magnum and 9mm and a rare 38-40 and 10mm.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Drydock on March 23, 2021, 07:02:09 PM
Yeah, a dual cylinder 45 Vaquero 4 3/4" would be perfect for this application.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 9245 on March 30, 2021, 03:09:07 AM
Yeah, a dual cylinder 45 Vaquero 4 3/4" would be perfect for this application.

Still basically a Single Action Army copy, I do hear they are well built, my only objections is that a want something different, price becomes an issue at that point compared to the 1875 Remington or cartridge conversions, and I really do like that captive cylinder pin on the 1875 Remington so that I could do a cylinder hot swap if I wanted to.

Plus authenticity, yes I have practical concerns too but that’s also an issue.  On that note, does anyone know how many clicks original antique 1875 Remingtons have?
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 45 Dragoon on March 30, 2021, 08:10:23 AM
Well, a quick look at current Reproduction  '75 Remingtons  show a safety notch. If the reproduction revolvers are correct copies and since Remington was trying to capture some of the SAA crowd when they offered it, I would assume they originally had safety notches as well.

 The key to having a "4" clicker or a "3" clicker is the presence of a safety notch on the hammer. So, if your "3 clicker" has 4 then you have a timing issue .  .  .  same with the "4" clicker  .  .  .  if there's 5, you have a timing issue.

Mike
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 9245 on March 30, 2021, 09:29:50 AM
Well, a quick look at current Reproduction  '75 Remingtons  show a safety notch. If the reproduction revolvers are correct copies and since Remington was trying to capture some of the SAA crowd when they offered it, I would assume they originally had safety notches as well.

 The key to having a "4" clicker or a "3" clicker is the presence of a safety notch on the hammer. So, if your "3 clicker" has 4 then you have a timing issue .  .  .  same with the "4" clicker  .  .  .  if there's 5, you have a timing issue.

Mike

That’s what I’m wondering, current reproduction Remington 1875s have a 3 click hammer the same as most current Uberti Single Action Army reproductions to allow all 6 chambers to be loaded safely, older Remington 1875 reproductions have a 4 click hammer like the older Single Action Army reproductions and the original Single Action Army.  My question is how many clicks did the original Remington 1875 have?  If it was 4 then I would have to get an older reproduction to match or retrofit a newer one but if it were some other number then I could justify the 3 click hammer and get the ability to load all 6 chambers like I want.

I think Uberti uses the same parts for the 1875 Remington as the Single Action Army, I know the original was a close copy but did it also have the same trigger parts with the same 4 click hammer?
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Coffinmaker on March 30, 2021, 10:40:47 AM

No.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: 45 Dragoon on March 30, 2021, 01:35:52 PM
There ya go!!

Thanks Mike!

Thaother Mike!
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Coffinmaker on March 30, 2021, 05:06:44 PM

 :)BATTER UP!!   ;)

9245, I understand where you coming from and where you're at.  Short Answer:

You Can't Have IT.

The "Hot Reload" is a fantasy from a Clint Eastwood movie.  In reality, it was never done.  Attempting to reload anything got a person killed.  A reload in the 19th century was grabbing another fully loaded handgun.

The methods for carrying six loaded, were to rest the Firing Pin between Cartridge Case Rims.  That's it for cartridge guns.  Percussion guns were the only handguns with a safety "rest" or "pin" between chambers.

Now, further, there are some modern cartridge conversions with a safety stop.  They are made by Kirst Converter.  For Colt pattern Guns.  The firing pin rests in a recess between chambers.  Only five chambers.

The only way to get a factory gun to safely carry 6, is a modern Double Action or a Single Action with a Transfer Bar.  That's it.

Stay Safe Out There
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Dirty Dick on April 02, 2021, 07:40:39 AM
Like Glock says 'The fastest reload is no reload!'
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Tommy tornado on April 04, 2021, 06:53:38 PM
I have one and love it.  It has given me some problems over the years but it is still a favorite.  I have owned it since 1998.  In that time, I have replaced the hand and spring 3 times.  The frame where the firing pin comes through was peening at one point and got enough of a burr that it would set off primers.  It was easily fixed with a file.  I bought the gun used and it has had a ridiculous amount of .45 colt through it.  It was used in CAS as a main match gun from 2000-2010.  I would buy another one if the opportunity presents itself.  I will one day add the lanyard ring to mine.  I love that look.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Cole Younger on April 07, 2021, 03:33:42 AM
I’m continuing to explore whether I want to do a cartridge conversion on my 1858 Remingtons or, for as much as that will cost, get something else specifically for cartridge shooting.  Unfortunately though my budget is limited so I am exploring more budget friendly options.  I see Single Action Armys sold in the right price range range ($400-$600) but I’m not a fan of the Single Action Army.  Unfortunately more capable options like the Schofield basically double the price.  That brings me to the 1875 Remington, it’s about the same price as the Single Action Armys and I like the Remington designs and it would fit with the theme of my 1858 Remingtons.  However it appears to basically be a Single Action Army copy, but I am intrigued by the captive cylinder pin so it has me considering it.

Does it have a hot swappable cylinder like the 1858 Remington?  The captive cylinder pin suggests it does.  How practical is that?  Is there any historical evidence that that was done?

Does it have hammer notches or firing pin rests like the 1858 that will allow the hammer to rest between chambers and carry all 6 chambers loaded safely?

Do the current production (uberti?) .44-40s have the same accuracy issues as the original .44-40s or do they have the correct barrel?

Does it have any other differences from the Single Action Army?
The Remington Army cap and ball conversions to cartridges were some of the first done and THE first IIRC, to be mass produced.  They were 46 rimfires and so the 45 Colt's that the new ones are commonly converted to or built as if they are a factory gun, will not be totally correct.  They are still sweet though.

Certainly the 1875's will not only take a 45 ACP cylinder (if they're a 45 Colt to begin with) but many have been supplied with both cylinders.  I had one.  It was nice.  My current 1875 is a 44-40.  They are nice guns also.  The simplest solution for you would seem to be to obtain a new or used 1875 in 45 Colt with the 45 ACP cylinder with it.  I'm not sure that would be the cheapest solution though, especially due to current conditions. 

(https://i.imgur.com/AKNHvGg.jpg)
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Lord Eoin MacKenzie on April 07, 2021, 04:21:18 PM
 The dual cylinder 1875 and 1890's  are just under $750 MSRP and were in stock.
 Ruger MSRP for Dual cylinder models were about the same.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on July 29, 2021, 12:31:46 PM
Howdy

This photo shows an original model 1875 Remington at the top and a Model 1890 Remington at the bottom. The 1875 is nickel plated, the 1890, believe it or not, is silver plated.

(https://imageshack.com/i/poCirdOhj)




Here is the 1875 almost completely disassembled.

(https://imageshack.com/i/poNBV2G9j)




Here are the parts to the lockwork. Yes the hammer has three cocking notches; 'safety cock', half cock or loading position, and full cock. Notice that rather than the hand riding in a hole in the hammer, it rides on a small screw threaded into the hammer. Notice too there is only one point on the hand, rather than the hand of a Colt which has two 'points'. The shapes of the trigger and bolt are quite different with the Remington than a Colt too. The screw in the hammer makes take down of the hammer slightly different than a Colt. The hammer must be lowered through the frame in order to unscrew the little screw before the hammer can be lifted out of the frame from the top.

(https://imageshack.com/i/pnuFgASij)


Operationally, the Colt and the Remington were very similar. Set the hammer to half cock to free the cylinder to rotate. Load one, skip one, load four more. Bring the hammer to full cock and lower it on an empty chamber. I NEVER trust the so called 'safety cock' notch on any Colt or other single action revolver. Look at how thin the sear is. It would not take much of a blow to the hammer to shear off the sear and allow the hammer to fall all the way, firing a round under the hammer. Did I emphasize NEVER enough?



The design of the cylinder pin on the originals was different than on the modern reproductions. The reproductions use a spring loaded transverse catch much like a Colt to retain the cylinder pin. With the originals, the cylinder pin was very long. It extended all the way to the muzzle. There was a spring loaded catch on the underside of the front of the pin. When pressed up it allowed the cylinder pin to be pulled forward so the cylinder could be removed. The arrangement was the same with the 1890 model.

(https://imageshack.com/i/pmaaCiToj)




The shape of the web under the barrel of the 1875 model was meant to imitate the shape of the loading lever of the 1858 Percussion model. Despite what Robert Duvall said in Open Range, it did not add any strength to the barrel. Simply held in place with a slip fit pin to the frame and one screw under the barrel.

(https://imageshack.com/i/pmy9nvmWj)




Considerably more space between the rear of the trigger guard and the grip on the Remington than on a Colt.

(https://imageshack.com/i/pmft43xkj)




The 1858 Remington Cap & Ball revolvers had no bushing on the front of the cylinder to prevent BP fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap from fouling the cylinder pin. This made them very prone to binding when fired with Black Powder. Remington followed the example of Colt with the 1875 cylinder, seen in the center of this photo, with a bushing integral with the cylinder. However, the removable bushing on the Colt cylinder on the right was more prominent than the Remington bushing and functioned better at preventing the cylinder pin from binding with BP fouling blasted out of the b/c gap.

(https://imageshack.com/i/pmigWZ3nj)




There were just a few Remington 1875 revolvers chambered for 45 Colt, mostly for the Army trials. Most were chambered for a 44 caliber Remington round that used a heeled bullet, or 44-40. The 44-40 Remingtons have a reputation for being very inaccurate. The chamber throats were bored too large for the 44-40 round. The chamber throats on this one measure about .448, which is much too large for my .428 diameter 44-40 bullets. I was happy all the bullets hit the targets in this photo and none of them key holed.

(https://imageshack.com/i/plY94Ta7j)
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Fox Creek Kid on August 22, 2021, 03:47:15 PM
Quote
... The chamber throats were bored too large for the 44-40 round. The chamber throats on this one measure about .448, which is much too large for my .428 diameter 44-40 bullets...


It has been said that Remington merely used the same .44 Remington cylinders for the .45 Colt version. That appears to be the case here perhaps. The original specs for the Colt SAA were for 0.450". As we know today, bores can vary and quite a bit at that.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on September 01, 2021, 08:52:07 AM
Mike Venturino, in his book Shooting Sixguns of the Old West, is of the opinion that the Remington engineers took cylinders already chambered for the 44 Remington round, which used a heeled bullet, and bored them to receive 44-40 ammunition. The chamber  throats however were already oversized because the 44 Remington round used a heeled bullet, so the throats were too large for 44-40 bullets.  Mike states when he measured chamber throats they ran about .458 - .450, which pretty much duplicates the .458 I measured on the chamber throats of my M1875. Mike states he could not get a 44-40 Remington Model 1875 to hit paper without the bullets key holing. I was pleased that as inaccurate as it is, my 1875 at least put all the bullets through the paper pointy end first.
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on September 01, 2021, 09:06:01 AM
Quote
The methods for carrying six loaded, were to rest the Firing Pin between Cartridge Case Rims.

That does not work very well. At least not with large caliber cartridges.

Here is a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army cylinder loaded with 45 Colt ammo. Imagine a circle formed by the firing pin hits on the spent primers. The circle represents where a firing pin will rest, particularly between the rims of adjacent cartridges. Notice how little space there is between the rims of the cartridges at that circle. In point of fact, I have tried this, if the firing pin is lowered between rims, it does not contact the surface of the cylinder. There is not enough space. Instead, the rounded tip of the firing pin rests between rims. It does not take much effort to rotate the cylinder, the rounded point of the firing pin will ride up over the bevel on the rims and allow the cylinder to turn.

The firing pin will not prevent the cylinder from turning. At least not with large diameter ammo such as 45 Colt. It would probably work OK with smaller diameter ammo, such as 38 Special/357 Magnum, but not with large diameter rims.

(https://imageshack.com/i/pmUcEpT9j)


Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Driftwood Johnson on September 01, 2021, 09:24:12 AM
Quote
The Remington Army cap and ball conversions to cartridges were some of the first done and THE first IIRC, to be mass produced.  They were 46 rimfires and so the 45 Colt's that the new ones are commonly converted to or built as if they are a factory gun, will not be totally correct.  They are still sweet though.

Howdy Again

Smith and Wesson was the sole licensee to the Rollin White patent for bored through chambers in a revolver, allowing metallic cartridges to be chambered from the rear of the cylinder. Contrary to popular opinion, S&W never bought the rights to the patent, White would not sell the rights. But he did sign a contract with S&W making them the sole licensee to the patent. S&W paid White a royalty of $.25 for every revolver they produced up until the patent expired in 1869.

In February of 1868 Remington and Smith and Wesson signed a contract granting Remington permission to convert some of their 44 Caliber Cap & Ball revolvers (the Model 1858) to be able to fire cartridges as described in the White patent. The work was done at Remington's factory in Ilion NY, between September 1868 and April of 1869. New five shot cylinders were made and bored for a 46 caliber rimfire cartridge. After the work was completed the finished conversion revolvers were shipped to Smith and Wesson in Springfield Mass for inspection. A total of 4,574 revolvers were converted. 50 did not pass inspection. Smith and Wesson was paid a royalty of $1 on each of the converted revolvers.

Source: Smith and Wesson 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Darto on February 10, 2022, 08:12:57 PM
:)BATTER UP!!   ;)

9245, I understand where you coming from and where you're at.  Short Answer:

You Can't Have IT.

The "Hot Reload" is a fantasy from a Clint Eastwood movie.  In reality, it was never done.  Attempting to reload anything got a person killed.  A reload in the 19th century was grabbing another fully loaded handgun.

The methods for carrying six loaded, were to rest the Firing Pin between Cartridge Case Rims.  That's it for cartridge guns.  Percussion guns were the only handguns with a safety "rest" or "pin" between chambers.

Now, further, there are some modern cartridge conversions with a safety stop.  They are made by Kirst Converter.  For Colt pattern Guns.  The firing pin rests in a recess between chambers.  Only five chambers.

The only way to get a factory gun to safely carry 6, is a modern Double Action or a Single Action with a Transfer Bar.  That's it.

Stay Safe Out There

I think that is all true. For cartridge conversion percussion guns, for the 1858 Remington Howell makes 5 or 6 shot 45 LC conversion cylinders. These 5 shot cylinders have 5 safety notches. And the 5 shot cylinders do not slant the chambers but they line up straight inline to the barrel's forcing cone. Which might make them more accurate (I have been told the 6 shot Howell 1858 conversion cylinders have to slant the chambers, I never have owned the 6 shot type so I can't check that).
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: Coffinmaker on February 12, 2022, 11:14:50 AM

Ah yes.  The Howell conversion cylinders for Six rounds required the chambers be slanted to clearance for the Cartridge rims.  They work Ok.

I have a really simple position though.  I Don't like Remington.

Play Safe Out There
Title: Re: Tell me about the 1875 Remington
Post by: King Medallion on March 06, 2022, 07:26:07 AM
I love my 2 Uberti Remington's. They both have given my 20 plus years of great fun shooting in CAS and home plinking. Mine are 44-40's and have elk stag grips that don't fit perfectly, but are good enough for me. I don't concern myself with the little things like whats stamped on the barrel or safety notches or cross-pins or historically correct whatnot's. I enjoy them because I love how they look, shoot, feel in my hands. I have not any issues with either in all the years I've had them. Looking to get one in 45 Colt soon.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-Dhr2tlvawMSNFX4TrMAMCKr_1AnQ3pv5Eb7vbRPURMoxP7XGwztwrXh-mZBpQ3bj?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1558964813)