"Sample" Marked M1865 Spencer Carbines

[Snakeeater]

One of my M1865 carbines (SN #72xx) was one that based on its serial number was likely delivered around the end of June 1865, and has a lower block installed that not only had been modified for the Stabler device, but someone stamped the word "SAMPLE" on one side all in capital letters. As is noted in the article below by John McAulay for the American Rifleman entitled "Excels All Others: The Spencer Carbine" (July 23,2013) includes a passing reference to six additional M1865 Carbines were delivered as "samples", prototypes and models. Then follows with the quantity of the carbines delivered as equipped with or without the Stabler modifications. Has anyone ever seen or read how these "sample" carbines were marked or otherwise distinguished? I am just curious to see whether the carbine I have may be one of those six sample carbines? No worry, I am not holding my breath.

Model 1865 Spencer Carbines

The fall of 1864 and the early months of 1865 saw three major changes to the Spencer carbines being delivered on existing Army contracts, resulting in a nomenclature change to the Model 1865. In November 1864, the Ordnance Dept. directed that the carbines be chambered for the new standard rimfire round, .56-50, replacing the .56-56. The new .56-50 ammunition could chamber in the older M1860 carbines, but the earlier .56-56 would not chamber in the new carbines. The .56-50-chambered guns were stamped on the receiver “Model 1865,” and the barrel length was shortened to 20 inches.

One final improvement was the March 1865 incorporation of the Stabler cut-off attachment, which was invented by Edward Stabler of Sandy Springs, Md. It allowed the carbine to be fired as a single-shot with the seven cartridges in the magazine being held in reserve. Stabler was paid a royalty of 25 cents for each carbine fabricated with his magazine cut-off device.

On June 27, 1864, the Burnside Rifle Co. entered into a contract with the Ordnance Dept. to manufacture 30,500 .52-cal. M1860 Spencer carbines with deliveries completed by Aug. 31, 1865. With the changes directed to be made to the carbines, deliveries did not start until April 15, 1865, and they continued until the end of October, with a 30,496 M1865 Spencer carbines being delivered. Six additional carbines were delivered as samples, prototypes and models. Of this number, 14,494 were equipped with the Stabler cut-off and 16,008 without.

The company paid Spencer Repeating Rifle Co. a royalty of 50 cents for each carbine delivered to the Ordnance Dept., and $1 was paid for the 4,000 Spencer carbines sold to military individuals and civilians.

The Spencer factory manufactured nearly 23,000 M1865 Spencer carbines, of which 12,502 were equipped with the Stabler cut-off. In the post-war period, Springfield Armory retrofitted about 12,000 M1860s to incorporate M1865 features.

The .56-50-cal. M1865 Spencer carbines manufactured by the Burnside Rifle Co. and the Spencer Repeating Rifle Co. weighed 8 pounds, 5 ounces with 20-inch barrels, and they had an overall length of 37 inches.

[El Supremo]

Hello, Snakeeater:

Guess that I have to ask what kind of snake you eat or at least how you got that monicker? 
I got one from having to eat road kill after loosing a wager.  Just being friendly.

Anyway, that "sample" marked carbine is fascinating.  You SHOULD BE holding your breath!
Does Mr. Marcot have any photo's that could help? He must have seen one.
I have been told that he is accessible.  I have contact info if you wish it, via PM.
And also that there is a lot of good, but poorly organized Spencer historical material the Cody Museum. 

Of all the Spencer stuff presented here, yours may be the star.

May I ask how it came to you, please?  What provenance might be applicable?  Not trying to pry into this, just curious how a piece so unusually marked surfaced.  It must be a good story.

Sort of reminds me of the "gas trap" M1 that was found in the framing of an old, pre WWII splinterville barracks during demolition in the 1990's.  It was absolutely genuine, per Scott Duff. 

A collector once observed that the most desireable items only show up (for sale) once in a life time.
We call these "one phone call" guns.  The insiders know who and where and just sit patiently.  Had this happen with a matched pair of pristine 1938 era Woodward 16 bore over-unders for which the late Don Shrum of Cape Girardeau Outfitters had searched for 30 years.  They came out of a huge home in PA.  The one shown in the opening scenes of the Eddie Murphy movie TRADING PLACES.  Don knew the numbers on the brass hang tags on the trigger guards.  He paid well into six- figures, sight unseen, and kept them for his personal collection. 

Sure appreciate all the info.  Tx.

Respectfully,
El Supremo / Kevin Tinny

[Snakeeater]

Hello Kevin,

"Snake eaters" is kind of a joking term applied to all special ops, particularly those who served in the Army's Special Forces, because as part of our survival training we were taught how to live off the land and to survive you eat pretty much anything that doesn't eat you first. Of course, that was all some 35 years ago when I was young and impressionable. LOL

About the Spencer, it is one I bought online from Joe Salter in 2012, and bought it with the intent to shoot it in competition as I had done with the Spencer rifle I bought from Joe in 2009. After shooting the rifle, I began wondering how much better it might be to shoot the carbine, not that I don't like the rifle. But the carbine that I bought immediately before this M1865 was one of the M1865 Burnside contract guns and was just so tight an action, it was like a mint gun. I posted photos of that carbine here around June  2011. That carbine is a very interesting piece in that just after I bought it, a dealer up in Kentucky had one within 100 digits of its serial number that was like this one, just like it was unissued. This carbine, the action was so tight, you practically have to pry it open. Then last January when I was attending the Civil War Show at Dalton, GA, I literally found its twin that was 2 digits off and was again practically in mint condition. The carbine that the Kentucky dealer sold, sold for $9,500.

So as for provenance goes, I suppose that Joe Salter might recall where he acquired the carbine but I do not suspect that it can be determined when it was received by the Ordnance Department. Marcot does not provide any examples of "samples" only that samples were submitted. There is an evaluation of two M1860 carbines by one of the inspectors, 29,752 and 29,792, that were found to be somewhat flawed but no so great as to be rejected. I recently discovered that 29,792 is still held in the collection at Springfield Armory.

http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=13507,DATABASE=objects,

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[Snakeeater]

Given that the 29,792 carbine was stamped atop the barrel with the Ordnance bomb/W.D. in oval/1864. This mark denotes a War Department Ordnance Pattern Model firearm, and year accepted, and my carbine is not such an elaborate affair, there were other samples of Spencer carbines tendered to foreign governments such as occurred in the instance of Charles W. May-Reynolds who represented the French government in purchasing arms from Shuyler, Hartley and Graham, including 5,000 Spencer carbines, both of the old M1860 and newer models, circa 1870. Schuler had evidently made the suggestion that as many as fifty to seventy-five thousand Spencers could be furnished together with other arms noted (top of page 75).

https://books.google.com/books?id=Kk0cI8xqHz0C&lpg=PA512&vq=Leeds&dq=Sample%20Spencer%20carbine&pg=PA75#v=onepage&q=sample&f=false

[El Supremo]

Thanks for the photo, Snakeeater:

I appears that yours is one of six; at least to me.  That makes it very special. 
Since Marcot did not include a photo in his book, your photo may be the only one around. 
I have to wonder if Mr. Salter knew what he had.

You must be living right.

All the best,

El Supremo / Kevin Tinny

[Snakeeater]

I'm sure Joe must have known. It's the same photo he posted when he advertised the carbine.