Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BOLD Chambers => Topic started by: El Rinche on August 07, 2007, 02:00:09 PM
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Today I did something that I havent done for about 25 years. I tried to buy a firearm at a gun store. Not a Class III nor even an assault rifle. A simple single action pistol for "cowboy" shooting. Thats it. No "cop killer" bullets, no "Saturday Night Special," no armor piercing, no sniper rifle, just something to shoot for fun in my advancing years.
I dutifly filled out the requisite form and surrendered my drivers license to the clerk.
Several minutes later the clerk returned and advised me that purchase had been "denied," and the transaction was "delayed." After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I heard the clerk tell me that the government worker on the other end of the phone gave no reason (nor can they, apparently). In astonishment, I explained that I had been a professional law enforcement officer for more than 20 years. I had been a credentialed Federal Agent with firearm carry authority EVERYWHERE including passenger aircraft. I explained that I have a pilot's license, a USCG Captains License and even a HAZMAT endorsement on my CDL and formerly held a significant security clearance, and have had my backgound deeply investigated multiple times and there must be some mistake. Another employee agreed and called back on my behalf in response to my request for more information and a person to talk to. I was told that the transaction was "delayed" and that I could call and inquire - but only after three days - I was NOT to call immediately!"
I am not up to speed with what has been happening with firearms purchases lately, nor the criteria to instantly approve or deny who "may" purchase a gun, but we have come a long way in the wrong direction, in my opinion, from the days when I used to ride my bike up to the local convenience store a pick up some .22 or shotgun shells and take off into the desert for an afternoon of shooting.
I like gun stores and I wish there were more of them and it was easier for the dealers to make a living, but I gotta tell ya, this was in no way the fault of the dealer, but if this is the crap one has to put up with these days, I'll go back to buying and selling guns through my friends and "network."
Anyone have knowledge of this process that can educate and old Law Dawg?
El Rinche
BOLD #867
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Never heard of such a thing! I think that gov't worker made a mistake or is anti-gun and decided to mess with you.
IMO.
Someone I know recently bought a double action revolver and by recent I mean within the last three or four weeks
the sale/transfer went through without a glitch. I believe things for you somehow got S.N.A.F.U.ed in translation
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If you have moved recently or a few times since you were last verified, that may be the reason. I had a CCW in Louisana, and I moved to Kansas.The CCW was stiil good in Louisana though about to expire. When I tried to buy a Cowboy gun it was held up. I never found out why for sure but the gunshop owner said it was something about the KS./LA/ move. I bought another gun (Glock 27)from the same shop and they tried the same thing and then he brought up the fact that I'd been cleared the last time,(happened to be within a few weeks), the person on the other end cleared the sale.
I know for a fact that the FBI checked my background for 15 years for me to be able to get a CCW.
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I agree with Charlie...it would also depend in which state you live...I hear from friends who live in Calif....they have delays all the time as far as buying guns go. Dusty.
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I haven't purchased any thing in a bunch of years but I had trouble even when I worked for the City. There was a guy with my same name that had a bunch of trouble and they had to make sure it wasn't me. I was even sued and had to go and show my Drivers License to prove I wasn't this guy. He was about 20 years older than me and the wrong he had done that they wanted to take me to court on would have happened when I was 10 or 11 years old.
So I was used to being delayed. But they always approved me. Most times it was with in the hour and I would hang around the store and wait. Seems the last few shootin irons I purchased they had a deal where if you were delayed the shop owner was transfered to another person that always approved me. Maybe they don't do that anymore for some reason. And there used to be 2 checks where I live. One local and the federal. Seems to me folks could pass one and not the other.
My wife has trouble getting her car tag renewed. Seems a woman with her same first and last name wrote a bad check. So she has to sign a statement that it's not her every time and I can't renew anything with her name on it unless she goes along.
They sure make it hard on folks with the same name as bad guys where I live.
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Before they streamlined the process I was always delayed when I made a purchase. It hasn't happened in a long time but I always found it ironic.
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Nothing evil going on. It could be just that you have a similar name to someone who recently has come under scrutiny for some reason. There is a rule in the NIC check that states if they cannot confirm or give the dealer a reason for the denial in a certain amount of time the dealer can sell the weapon to you. There is a lot of incompetence within the NIC. After all they are "Guvment" workers ya know. I know of a pard who has the same name as his criminal son and he gets denied every time initially.
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This happened to me for about two years after I retired. Never mind that the FBI had more sets of my finger prints than the 10 most wanted list, but that's a part of signing on with any new department. Never understood it, just filled out the paper work and told them there'd be a delay, and that I was used to it. Never understood it, but that was just the way that it was for me at least.
Now that it doesn't happen to me anymore, I'd like to find a way to get my name removed from the must hassle and pull aside to ask stupid questions list when I fly. I know a little old lady friend of my mother's who is on the same list while her husband is not, nor was he or she ever a LEO.
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Here is something from my own experience. My first gun purchase in years was under the new NICS. The first two purchases were "delayed" for three days, then I was allowed to pick the weapon up. I put it down to same name, somewhere else, prohibited. NICS is being careful. Third time I was denied flat out, end of story, sorry.
What I had to do was file an appeal with NICS, send in fingerprints, etc., wait about 5 or 6 months. What I got was an appeal file established at NICS that they go to when I have a background check done on me for a gun purchase. I have to use a special PIN number issued to me and the FFL has to call a special 800 number with this PIN. Now it takes about 30 seconds to be approved.
I was at the time in the military with a secret clearance, had held a top secret crypto clearance, had worked in counter drug ops. I felt slighted to say the least.
The people at the other end at NICS who do the check are low payed, probably over whelmed, and would catch hell probably if they approved the wrong person, so I bet they prefer to err on the side of extreme caution. And they do not answer questions and they don't get in any hurry to resolve issuses, I even involved my US congressman, which didn't seem to help....Cheers
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Don’t know what it is. Started in ’70 with my department ‘n retired in ’02. Never had a problem while I was workin’ or after retirement. Other cops I know have.
I was in the shop I haunt when someone with a high security clearance was denied. The boy got mad at the salesman ‘n wasn’t much of a gentleman about it. Hell, wasn’t the salesman’s fault. Yet, I know others with high security clearances that sail right thru. After the guy stormed out the salesman told me it was a mistake ‘n the clearance was why. Happens on a regular basis.
Has to be similarities in names, DOBs ‘n SSNs with a crook.
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I didn't have any "high security" clearance but I did have some special clearance to be able to use the feds database when I was assigned to asset-forfeiture, maybe that was why I got delayed but I would always tell the salesman that my purchase might come back as delayed and that I was used to it, although I never understood it. I guess I've been retired long enough for all that to go away as now I never have a problem.
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I'm a complete nobody and made my very first purchase requiring FFL transfer recently. I ordered a "cowboy gun", was advised by the seller what to do, the local dealer of course was completely up to speed too. A week later, it's in, I stop by after work, the guy takes my license and in 10 minutes, I was cleared.
I cannot attribute any of the delays or denials experienced by others to any kind of nefarious intent, combination of low-paid workers in CA to the contrary. ;)
I'm sorry that those of you that have served us so well are being subject to more scrutiny.
Maybe I'm just being naive. But I'm beginning to see how opinions on this subject get formed.
BP
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In Nebraska, we have had the luxury (no, not really) of having a "3year buyer's card" that allows you to buy guns & take 'em home immediately with no NICS call-ins.
But some our illustrious lawmakers are trying to change to the mandatory NICS crap. And it looks like it will possibly happen.
As a dealer, it really pisses me off. Makes our lives & customer's lives a lot more difficult & expensive to deal with. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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:o Buyers shock indeed.
I moved from South Dakota back to Washington State, seems I need to be a resident for 90 days before I can buy a SASS type gun.
Whal my 90 days are almost up and looks like it's time to apply for a ccw permit. Wish me luck. :)
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I have seen buys "pended" or delayed for absolutely no reason under the sun. The gents who said that if you're pended you can buy anyway within a period of time are exactly. I don't know if that's 24 hours or what, but you can pick up your gun. In NH we have to undergo the state background computer check, but I have never waited over 30 minutes for that. For any long guns NH uses the NICS and they always give the approval on the initial phone call. I always figure that I'll walk in and plunk down my money and get pended one of these days, but so far it hasn't happened. I do know that there is a list of things that will get your sale delayed in NH. You don't have to put your social security number on the 4473, but if you don't and there's some yahoo out there with the same name as you who has done wrong the sale will be held up until they see who's who. A shooting buddy had a sale delayed because he got a speeding ticket in Boston when he was 17. (He's close to 50 now). It ain't gonna get better....Move over, Obama, and let Hillary get to that desk.
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Count yer blessins all non CA residents. Any gun/rifle here is an automatic 10 day wait no matter who you are or what you are buying. You pay up front, an don't even know if you'll get it til the 10 days er up. At that point ya either get yer money back (with a processing fee subtracted) or yer piece. Handguns require taking a special test that is easy with little more than common sense, but the card they give you to purchase pistols (SA cowboy guns included) is only good fer 3 years. I havent even bothered ta look inta CCW permits out here.
Also, there is not only a limit ta how many guns you can posess, but when you get close ta that limit a flag shows up next ta yer name. I believe currently that anything over 8 is considered an arsenal. So much fer serious collecting. You don't even want ta think about doing anything under the table ta circumvent this. The penalties of conductiong any transaction without a licenced broker involved are VERY steep (not that you'd want ta risk this anyway, too many bad things could happen down the road).
Meanwhile, my Dad back in AZ can stroll inta a gunshop an say, "I want that one". With a two minute phonecall and the exchange of money, he's on his way with his new gun. He can walk down mainstreet with it strapped ta hip if he wants. That definately would not fly here. I hope that when I leave this Godfersakin state, the other states have not followed suit.
Leo
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here in Arkansas, walk in pick out yer gun, show em yer Conceled permit, pay, walk with gun in hand.
on the local radio station they have a Bargin Post, call in program twice every day cept Sunday, if you listen to it regularly you can buy almost any type of gun you want, they call in rifles, pistols you name it, it will eventually be on. then all ya gotta do is call em and set up a time to go see em and take yer money along.
I always listen when I'm around a radio. never know what ya might hear.
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Can you feel my pang of jelousy from all these miles away?
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Texas is basically the same as Ark. I go in to the gunshop, buy the gun, they do the check over the phone, and that's it. If you have a concealed carry permit you bypass the phone check.
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I picked up my new TTN 1887 lever action shotgun. It took longer for me to fill out the yellow form than the phone check took. I had a "Top Secret" security clearance in the military and spent 38 years in law enforcement. I have a common last name, but it still doesn't take long for the phone check.
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I know this is a old posting but I just had to chime in. When I was a cop I never had a problem with gun buys. I even had my own FFL for iover 15 years. I left being a law dog in 1990 and still was alright untill 2004, then the problem started. I was delayed every time I bought a gun. At first it didn't bother me as the three days was not much to ask. Then I did a couple of gun buys and swaps over the net with the guns going through my friends FFL. I got upset that I could not take the gun home. If it came in on a Thursday then I could not pick it up until the following Wednesday as the weekends don't count,only working days of Monday - Friday. I just filed for a pin number and read where that can take 6 months. Now I'm getting upset because it's some low life that never has done right in his life and is using my info or close to it that's causing my delays. I signed up for the military in 1965 when the majority were looking for ways out and then came home and became a cop and gave those years of my life and now I can't walk in a buy a gun!!!!
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I have run across quite a few LE's and Military (active) people that seem to require further investigation when doing BG checks. Not sure if it's security clearances or HLS issues, but for whatever reason, it is happening. I have noticed that E-check submission seldom have any delays, while calling in BG checks run the gauntlet so to speak. Here in Wisconsin handguns go through the state agency, and that too sometimes gets some delays. I always wondered if it had to do with retrieving different files off the computer system, and the agents weren't quite sure how to expedite it, so they just put a delay on it and call back later.
In any case, for what it's worth, you are not alone by a long shot - but I'm sure that is of little consolation......
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Fairshake,
Thank you for your service.
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I don't know what to tell you about the problem. I've have been a LEO since 1970. I purchase 2 or 3 firearms a year. It takes about 5 minutes for me to get checked another 5 to 10 minutes to fill out the form.
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I have run across quite a few LE's and Military (active) people that seem to require further investigation when doing BG checks.
We're wasting time & money investigating the wrong guys! Duh...
Too much info given & collected leads to too much data to inquire about. Paralysis by analysis. The crooks get their guns faster than our soldiers, vets & LEOs, & there's no data to mine on them.
Give us more regulation. It makes me feel safe just to think about. ;)
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Yup - and I just got notice the governor here in Wisconsin helped balance his budget by raising the State fee for handgun BG checks by $5.00 - upping it to $13.00 per check. Add a little insult to injury >:(