Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BROW => Topic started by: frimath on January 19, 2019, 01:14:07 PM
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I recently found a Lone Star Remington Rolling Block in 50-70 Govt. I’ve searching for years for this exact gun and finally found it and bought it right up!
Now I have star line brass in 50-70 and the dies and just finished loading the first 15 rds with a lead bullet from Buffalo Arms. 65, 67, and 70 grains of Goex FF with a 215 Fed magnum primer. I’m compressing about 1/2 inch with a compression die and using a veg card wad to seat the bullet on.
I’m thinking of doing a duplex load with a 5 grain powder charge at the base, with 4759 powder. However I haven’t decided what FF powder charge (s) I should try. I could use some thoughts / suggestions/ chit chat since this rifle is unfired. Thanks !
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Get this book!
https://www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/shooting-buffalo-rifles-of-the-old-west/
With the proper lube and bullet design, I've never found duplexing necessary myself. The .50-70 will easily reach rated velocity with BP alone, and the proper design carries plenty of lube to keep fouling soft. I use a drop tube, and rarely compress more than the width of a driving band. I have found it the easiest of BP calibers to load.
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Also, if you can find it, "The .50-70 shooters handbook" by Croft Barker is a fine read.
For smokeless, I load 28 grains of 5744 under the Government 450 grain bullet (Lee Mold) But BP clean up of my .50-70 carbine is so easy I rarely bother. I have a rolling block in .43 Spanish I treat the same way after a BP session: stick a kitchen funnel in the breach, pour a cup of water down the barrel, a couple of dry patch's and a Ballistol patch, and put it away.
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https://www.amazon.com/Collectors-Remington-Rolling-Military-Rifles/dp/1931464456/ref=asc_df_1931464456/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583863980169106&psc=1
Everyone with a Rolling Block should have this book, IMHO.
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I've owned two 50-70s in the past and loaded and shot both for a number of years. Never saw the need or rational for duplex load, or magnum primers for that matter. Keeping it simple and close to original worked best for me.
Dave
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Thanks guys. I’ll run it out to the range this week and try to post my results here afterwards! Thx J
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A half inch is a lot of compression.
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Both;
Lyman Reloading Handbook, 46th Edition, and
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition,
Show duplex loading's for the .50-70 as well as smokeless, black powder and Pyrodex CTG loading's.
Lyman 47th New Edition Reloading Handbook, drops the duplex loading's.
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I haven't bought anything gun related in months. I decided to treat myself to Croft Baker's book. Good grief! Some folks want a lot of money for that volume. Highest price I found was $300, used. Best price was just over $100, new. Splurged and bought it. Hope it's got lots of pictures! (LOL)
Dave
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I recently found a Lone Star Remington Rolling Block in 50-70 Govt. I’ve searching for years for this exact gun and finally found it and bought it right up!
Now I have star line brass in 50-70 and the dies and just finished loading the first 15 rds with a lead bullet from Buffalo Arms. 65, 67, and 70 grains of Goex FF with a 215 Fed magnum primer. I’m compressing about 1/2 inch with a compression die and using a veg card wad to seat the bullet on.
I’m thinking of doing a duplex load with a 5 grain powder charge at the base, with 4759 powder. However I haven’t decided what FF powder charge (s) I should try. I could use some thoughts / suggestions/ chit chat since this rifle is unfired. Thanks !
Try the original "duplex" load about 5gs of 4f then your regular BP powder.
wM1
Edited to clarify duplex load.
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Just a thought-suggestion on my part,
I would not recommend using a "duplex" load in any original firearm made before 1892.
The different powders can cause the burn rate to change within each powder. This burn rate can cause pressure spikes that the firearm was not designed to take.
I wish you all well...
My best,
Blair
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If you want a good CAS load for smokeless, use 13 grains of Trail Boss under that 450 grain bullet. Works great!
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I do not understand the rational behind a priming charge of black powder under a main charge of smokeless. Could someone please explain why one would do this?
Dave
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I do not understand the rational behind a priming charge of black powder under a main charge of smokeless. Could someone please explain why one would do this?
Dave
BP is much easier to ignite than smokeless. Example. Shottie ammo makers found quickly that a hotter primer was needed for the early bulk smokeless powders. The #209 was born.
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I do not understand the rational behind a priming charge of black powder under a main charge of smokeless. Could someone please explain why one would do this?
Dave
Normal duplex load is the other way around. Folks will use a small chg of smokiless under a main chg of BP (this is a modern duplex load). The ODG's would use a small chg of 4f then a normal chg of your regular BLACK POWDER.
kR
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We used about a half # of BP behind the main charge on the 8" howitzer. I never weighed the main charge but my guess was 30-40#.
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I’m thinking of doing a duplex load with a 5 grain powder charge at the base, with 4759 powder.
I've known about putting a small charge of smokeless under a main charge of black for years. The above was what I was asking about. I've never heard of 4759 being that hard to ignite.
Dave
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I'm not entirely sure whether he is talking about using the 4759 under BP or what. Sounds odd. The only way you could use a small chg of BP under 4759 is if the case were full as it would not stay in place without compression.
wM1
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I have used 2.7 grains of IMR4227 under 29 grains of 2Fg or 3Fg, in the .44-40 with compression to prevent mixing, with a 200 grain Big Lube Bullet.
The load produces a smaller amount of smoke that a black powder only load and leaves a clean barrel like a smokeless load.
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I have used 2.7 grains of IMR4227 under 29 grains of 2Fg or 3Fg, in the .44-40 with compression to prevent mixing, with a 200 grain Big Lube Bullet.
The load produces a smaller amount of smoke that a black powder only load and leaves a clean barrel like a smokeless load.
Man do I feel dumb. I don't get this one either. If you're after less smoke and a cleaner barrel, shoot smokeless.
Shaking my head in confusion,
Dave
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You are looking at this with modern eyes. The ODG wanted a clean burning load but were not willing to give up gunpowder entirely. Hence the small charge of smokeless or semismokeless under the main charge of black. Less smoke drew less attention to the shooter and a cleaner bore was good also.
Kevin