Author Topic: Carrying More Than One Gun  (Read 67460 times)

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 09:20:07 PM »
In The True Story of Kill or be Killed in the Real Old West the Frank "Pistol Pete" Eaton talks about carrying two pistols. I don't really know much about this book, however, it supposedly the recollections of Frank Eaton. Info: http://www.oldwestlawmansforgottenmemoir.com/

It is set in the Indian Territory 1870s.

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2014, 09:50:11 PM »
Not just a cowboy, this guy seems to have been a professional lawman. 
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Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2014, 08:37:53 PM »
The best stats I've read claim that 1 in 5 people out West made a living as a Cowboy at least part of the time. 'Cowboy' Action Shooting includes people pretend to be all kinds of Western Characters. From School Marms to Gambler, Soldiers to Natives, it's not just restricted to those who worked cows.
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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #23 on: Today at 09:05:57 AM »

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 09:44:37 PM »
Shotgun;  I think I understand your point.  After percussion revolvers were superceded the need for a second revolver became more situational.  If you were a lawman or their opposite number on the other side, there was a use for more than one revolver.  Personal means ($$) or status came into it, but generally a practical person weighed very carefully the need for protection against the extra weight and bulk of that revolver (or more than one) while making a living.

At page 95 of PACKING IRON there is a studio picture of Ed Schieffelin with two revolvers and a Sharps. But he was wealthy and was trying for that certain image.

Shooting many guns, and often is a blast, until you have to carry them anywhere without a vehicle, conveyance or mount of some sort. Life is full of compromises (like SASS vis a vis NCOWS). We don't have to get all wound up about it.
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
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With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2014, 11:16:12 AM »
Yes, Sir Charles. Now that I tote my guns a'foot I use a little Red Wagon. All I really understand is that the more guns I get to shoot the more fun I have  ;D but then the more guns I have to clean :'( .
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Offline Farmer Tom

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2014, 03:23:35 AM »
In The True Story of Kill or be Killed in the Real Old West the Frank "Pistol Pete" Eaton talks about carrying two pistols. I don't really know much about this book, however, it supposedly the recollections of Frank Eaton. Info: http://www.oldwestlawmansforgottenmemoir.com/

It is set in the Indian Territory 1870s.

So not to bump up an old thread... But that site says he killed his first man at 16, with two 45 rounds. Which is fine.

But...

Then it says he started marshalling at 17, in 1872. I didn't think the 45 colt round was available until 73, with the release of the SAA.

And I'm pretty sure Frank Eaton was born in 1860. So like you said...

"Supposedly"

Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2014, 09:38:52 AM »
The book "The Sutton-Taylor Feud" by Robert C. Sutton Jr. has a picture of Texas Ranger Robert B. Sutton a little after 1900, with 2 Colt SAA's and a 94 Winchester.  There is another picture of Alf Day, one of the major players in the feud, with a # 3 Smith and Wesson, and what appears to be a Colt SAA.  This photo could be staged in the studio but who knows for sure.
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Offline Angel_Eyes

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2014, 04:21:31 AM »
Always gets me in the pocket when I think about new guns!

As to Hollywood, when there has been a 'shootout', how come you never see someone scurrying around, picking up all those valuable, sale-able firearms?

With a revolver at about half a months wages you would expect some canny person to be hanging about with his eye out for the main chance of a bit of profit!
Trouble is...when I'm paid to do a job, I always carry it through. (Angel Eyes, The Good, The Bad & The Ugly)
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Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2014, 10:34:50 AM »
I have seen a photo of a Sheriff's Office with numerous guns decorating the walls, I guess he picked a few up?
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Offline GunClick Rick

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2014, 11:20:54 AM »
I was born in Mojave,Lone Pine ain't too far from there where they shot most westerns,always wanted to go back there and see if i could find any movie guns they forgot,when i met Harry carey Jr. i said i bet you have alot of guns from the movies and he said he didn't have a one,they were all props and they kept good inventory of them,but there has to be a couple out there Star Treck was filmed in the same area also,(there's that rock again)  ;D
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Offline Mean Bob Mean

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2014, 01:30:19 PM »
The gripe seems to be that no 'cowboy' ever carried more than a revolver.


If they carried at all, it was likely a single pistol or a rifle on the horse.  They did not, as I understand it, carry a firearm while Cowboying unless there was a fear of incident from human or animal predators.  Oh, and the stuff I have suggests that they always carried their pistols when courting as they thought the whole getup made them far more attractive.  The source I refer to, The Cowboy by Philip Ashton Rollins, also indicates that guys who wore more than one gun (or wore fancy rigs) were either lawmen or wannabes.   
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Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 03:31:46 PM »
Of course part of the problem is that not everyone West of the Mississippi was an actual Cowboy and not everyone was a Cowboy all the time.
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Offline Mean Bob Mean

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 03:41:14 PM »
Of course part of the problem is that not everyone West of the Mississippi was an actual Cowboy and not everyone was a Cowboy all the time.


Agreed, but I doubt farmers ever carried a two gun rig, or bankers, railroad men, miners and prospectors, cooks, bankers, shepherds, surveyors . . . .

I don't know about criminal elements, but I would guess that if you were to see heavily armed men they would likely be in the criminal/lawman arena. 

Hickock always carried two did he not?
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Offline rfd

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 05:06:49 PM »
Look how long it took the "westerner" to replace his cap & Ball Revolver with a cartridge handgun.    You could always get powder and lead for balls, but a box of cartridges was way to expensive for most folks on the frontier and you have to find a store that sold cartridges.
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Offline St. George

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2014, 08:57:43 PM »
Combustible cartridges were available pretty much everywhere, from the Civil War, on.

They were present in the Dry Goods and Hardware stores - and were available via shipment from the big Mail Order houses.

The myth of the two-gun cowboy was largely a dime novel thing - reinforced by the Dime Novels - and those novels and 'Penny Dreadfulls' were common entertainment throughout East, where the saga of the Frontier was told and re-told.

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Offline Shotgun Franklin

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2014, 11:29:50 AM »
Quote
The myth of the two-gun cowboy was largely a dime novel thing
Except that many actually did carry two, or more.
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Offline St. George

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2014, 12:00:16 PM »
Prove it...

That's what this is about - provenance, not inference or wishful thinking a'la C&WAS' stages.

Look at the reality of the Old West - and not what one 'thinks' may have happened, based upon modern-day experiences.

That's the idea behind the 'Woulda If They Coulda' posse - and those guys all believe that what they see in the old 'John Ford Reference Library' is real, and not cooked up to entertain with derring-do and dire situations.

The cowboy's primary job was that of a drover - not as a wanna-be gunman - loaded for bear, and armed to the teeth - the job was moving cattle.

That job was performed by young men - boys, in many cases - and with young men, testosterone is in huge supply - meaning that they'll fight at the drop of a hat over imagined slights.

Ranchers didn't want that - they wanted their cattle to get to a railhead with all hands - so for most outfits, the sidearms were stowed with their soogans and warbags, back in one of the wagons - taken out when the situation meant they were  actually needed and not when emotions ran high.

The rest of the populace was invested in building a better life than what they'd had before the Civil War - if they carried - they carried smaller weapons that were more easily concealed.

Trail towns turned into 'towns' pretty quickly, and as they 'civilized' themselves and built churches and schools, they enacted laws that forbade carrying a sidearm in certain sectors of the town - and they actually fined for infractions, because no one wanted to raise a family amid the nascent violence that liquor and ready access to weapons brings.

Then, as now - folks mostly just want to be left alone to raise families and hopefully prosper as part of a community.

Read the Time-Life series 'The Old West' - it'll give a good overview of the 'real' Old West, and not the 'reel' version - and read those diaries and accounts of folks that weren't lawmen (who sometimes had a legitimate reason to be heavily armed), but cattlemen.

'Cowboys' were a very small part of the panoply of folks who settled the West - albeit the most 'romantic' part - but there was more to the American frontier than most are aware.

Vaya,

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Offline Farmer Tom

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2014, 01:23:12 PM »
Looots of talk about cowboys...

So, on the subject of cowboys... I've seen quite a few historical photo's of cowboys not wearing a gunbelt. I hope we all agree no gunbelt don't equal no gun.

Still on the subject of cowboys, when I was a little kid I remember asking an older than dirt cowboy (I grew up in rocky mountain ranch country) why he carried a pistol, there were no indians around anymore. His response was to the effect that pistols were for shooting mean horses/cattle/wildcats that got the jump on you. And cowboys used rifles if they had to shoot anything else.

So, now that we're past a pistol being a primary fighting tool (at least in my mind)...

There were a lot of people in the old west, and as someone posted several times, they weren't all cowboys.

So in my humble opinion, the lawmen, badmen, gunmen, etc... That depended on the pistols they carried for backup to their primary fighting tool... Why would carrying an extra pistol be any different than modern LEO's/Military carrying an extra magazine or two for their pistol?

Neither LEO's or Military are gonna try to get in a fight with a pistol, but they still carry the ability to quickly get their pistol shooting again.

So why wouldn't someone in the same situation carry an extra pistol, if they could afford it?

Or am I trying to apply common sense were it doesn't apply?

Offline St. George

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2014, 01:47:27 PM »
The original thread was about 'cowboys' and not professional gun men - there's a big difference.

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Offline Mean Bob Mean

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Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2014, 01:52:39 PM »
So why wouldn't someone in the same situation carry an extra pistol, if they could afford it?

No I think that is the point, probably lawmen and criminals would be the most likely to carry more than one sidearm.  That does not preclude cowboys from doing so, just that they would have been less likely to do so.
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