Author Topic: Carrying More Than One Gun  (Read 67466 times)

Offline Shotgun Franklin

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2086
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Carrying More Than One Gun
« on: February 07, 2014, 01:10:27 PM »
Some folks have a problem with CAS Shooters using more than one gun. The argument being that a Cowboy couldn't afford more than one gun. Well, not everyone was a Cowboy and some Cowboys did better than others.
I invite you to post documentation showing that some folks did carry more than one gun. Here's an example I ran across the other night:

"According to the custom of the time in that country, every man was armed with a good rifle, and a pair of Colt's revolvers. Although cap and ball, these were powerful arms...." - From 'Indian Fight At Battle Flat' by Jack McPhee, Frontier Times May1967
This fight took place in 1864 in Arizona.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

Offline Mogorilla

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 1866
  • NCOWS #: 3306
  • GAF #: 883
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 95
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 01:16:03 PM »
I think carrying more than one cap-n-ball was documented and real common during that unpleasantness here in the Missouri-Kansas area.

Offline Blair

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2484
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 02:14:36 PM »
Lets discuss what the term "GUN" means to some folks.
The time period, and what their occupation maybe are also very important?
Just a thought on my part,
Blair
A Time for Prayer.
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
Blair Taylor
Life-C 21

Advertising

  • Guest
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:22:15 PM »

Offline Shotgun Franklin

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2086
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2014, 02:21:00 PM »
The gripe seems to be that no 'cowboy' ever carried more than a revolver.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

Offline St. George

  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4827
  • NCOWS , GAF, B.O.L.D., Order of St. George, SOCOM,
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2014, 02:40:40 PM »
The truth of the matter is that most 'cowboys' didn't carry when plying their trade - that of herding cattle.

Most of the revolvers were kept in their gear, on the wagon.

Range bosses didn't like that their hands were often 'excitable' young men and prone to fighting - and when given weapons - were more than ready to use them - so, they kept them away from the hands unless actually needed because of a threat.

As an aside, the 'John Ford Reference Library' is a poor way to research the times - as are the studio photos that are full of photographer's props - and the atmosphere of C&WAS does little to foster actual research into the era, when movie lore and Dime Novel excitement beckons - I mean, who needs 'real life', when 'reel life' will do?

Besides, if C&WAS replicated the times - everyone'd be dipped in a barrel of alkali dust and made to squint into the sun for hours and hours - wiping dust and swatting flies.

Another thing - the cowboy wasn't paid much - and once he'd bought a badly-needed new shirt and trousers after the drive - and maybe a new pair of boots - there just wasn't much left with which to buy extra firepower, when what he already owned was still working.

His priorities were in clothing himself and making sure his primary piece of gear - his saddle - was in good order - 'not' in wandering the town - which likely had a 'No Guns' rule - all dolled up like Billy Badass.

These were small men - boys, really - and when you're topping out at 'maybe' 5'5" - two revolvers are a lot of weight to carry.

Both the 'Historical Society' forum and the 'NCOWS' forums are filled with good, solid references in their 'back pages' - so take some time, and look 'em over.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!



"It Wasn't Cowboys and Ponies - It Was Horses and Men.
It Wasn't Schoolboys and Ladies - It Was Cowtowns and Sin..."

Offline TwoWalks Baldridge

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1336
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 04:33:38 PM »
The grip seems to be that no 'cowboy' ever carried more than a revolver.


Most of the statement as I read them, are stating that probably no one carried a shotgun. a rifle and 2 revolvers.  I would agree with that.  On the other end of the spectrum is the working cowboy who probably had a rifle and possibly a revolver In the middle there were probably some that carried 2 revolvers and of course lawmen might well have carried 2 revolver and a shotgun or rifle.

Now from where I stand - SASS and NCOWS are shooting sports that reflect the weapons of the period with differing degrees of authenticity. A person needs to choose their poison.

Not everyone can afford 4 guns and ammo to shoot SASS
Not everyone can afford a horse and 2 guns for Mounted Shooting
Not everyone can afford a revolver and a shotgun or rifle along with ammo for NCOWS
Not everyone can afford a revolver and leather for cowboy fast draw

But:

Everyone has the capacity to find fault with anything.  :-X
When guns are banned, fear the man with a hammer

Offline Major 2

  • "Still running against the wind"
  • Deputy Marshal
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 15832
  • NCOWS #: 3032
  • GAF #: 785
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 415
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 08:02:39 PM »
Point of order  :)...

" ...Not everyone can afford a revolver and a shotgun or rifle along with ammo for NCOWS"

nor do they Need to ....NCOWS has a several 2 gun only ( 1 Rifle & 1 Pistol ) categories   ;)

*Some Posse' offer Sod buster ( 1 Shotgun 1 pistol ) as Local Posse' class.
The theory here was, someone wanting to get involved, but for financial limits was outside looking in...
Might have his Dad's (Granddad's) Double SXS & perhaps could purchase a Remington NMA or Colt Replica ....
I can't think of a less expensive, entry level start-up.... that some combo such as this.

Just my 2 cents  :)
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Shotgun Franklin

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2086
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2014, 09:02:34 PM »
It's odd that I ask a basically historic question but get the same people bitching about the same stuff. Yes, SASS Shooters use more than one gun, if you don't like that then don't shoot SASS. You likely need to start your own shooting game where no body carries a gun but instead moans about the problems with other shooting games.
I might be one of the few people here that understand that not everyone was a Cowboy and that some people DID carry more than one gun.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

Offline TwoWalks Baldridge

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1336
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2014, 08:07:38 AM »
Point of order  :)...

" ...Not everyone can afford a revolver and a shotgun or rifle along with ammo for NCOWS"

nor do they Need to ....NCOWS has a several 2 gun only ( 1 Rifle & 1 Pistol ) categories   ;)

*Some Posse' offer Sod buster ( 1 Shotgun 1 pistol ) as Local Posse' class.
The theory here was, someone wanting to get involved, but for financial limits was outside looking in...
Might have his Dad's (Granddad's) Double SXS & perhaps could purchase a Remington NMA or Colt Replica ....
I can't think of a less expensive, entry level start-up.... that some combo such as this.

Just my 2 cents  :)

 ;D I agree and at least meant to say it that way when I wrote "shotgun or rifle". 
When guns are banned, fear the man with a hammer

Offline Colt Fanning

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 333
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2014, 09:11:54 AM »
Howdy,
Thomas Rynning in recounting his early life as a cowboy in his excellent book "Gun Notches" states.
" A cowboy always slept with his six-shooter against his war bag at his left shoulder, where his right hand could drop on it without any wasted motion.  His Winchester always was at his right side with the muzzle towards his feet."

Also on page 21. regarding his six-shooter.
"You needed it to fight with, to protect you and your horse if a bad longhorn got you cornered, to shoot across the muzzles of the leaders of a stampede in turning them."  He also mentions Indian attacks.

This seems to suggest that cowboys had two guns if they could afford them and that they carried them at all times.
Regards
Colt

Offline Sacramento Johnson

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 170
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2014, 11:41:57 AM »
Howdy Shotgun!
 I think Horace Bell in his "Reminiscences of a Ranger; Early Times in Southern California" mentions the carrying of two percussion revolvers in California in the 1850s.

I find it interesting that you found a source documenting activity in Arizona in 1864 and the carrying of two percussion revolvers and a rifle then.  I was watching this previously unknown to me film recently called "Arizona" from 1940 with Jean Arthur and a very young William Holden. It was suppose to take place in Tucson, AZ in the early to mid 1860s.  It was notable as the first use of the location which would become known as "Old Tucson" (see True West's article on it this month; the film site was actually built for this film in '39). A goodly number of the leads carried two percussion revolvers (including some really unusual ones!), and a rifle. (An original beautiful military Henry also makes a wonderful appearance, as well.) Any ways, it's rather humorous that accidentally, Hollywood actually got something right!

Offline The Elderly Kid

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 383
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2014, 11:42:46 AM »
Shotgun messengers were often armed with a shotgun (naturally) and a pair of revolvers. These were usually provided by the freighting company so expense was not a problem. A second revolver meant that you didn't have to try to reload on a pitching, swaying wagon seat.

Offline Oregon Bill

  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1006
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 153
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2014, 02:53:16 PM »
I think it is worth considering that persons who went in harm's way intentionally -- gunfighters, criminals, peace officers for example -- might have taken professional comfort in two or even more revolvers. And in some country -- the Llano Estecado comes to mind -- you'd be a darned fool not be as well armed as possible until the Comanche were vanquished.
But the vast majority of folks in the real Old West likely never went heeled -- and certainly not with multiple revolvers.
I would not be surprised if a man packing two revolvers excited comment and warranted worry among "decent" folks.

 ;)

Offline Shotgun Franklin

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2086
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2014, 06:58:45 PM »
When I worked patrol in rural areas I carried two handguns, a shotgun and usually a rifle. In bigger cities they seem to believe that the Swat Team can be anywhere in 1/2 hour or so and that's good enough.
BTW, if you do work off of horseback, the horse carries the weight. I don't care how small you are, the horse can carry plenty.
Yes, I do have more facial hair now.

Offline GunClick Rick

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10068
  • Scudders all of yas~
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2014, 11:36:16 PM »
I'm 5'5" One 10 inch hog leg right,Ruger super blackhawk,1 10 inch C&B crossdraw right handed buffler gun,a nice bowie towards the back,Iver Johnson break open 38 tucked away and a Rossie sxs vest pocket derry in 22  ;D If all else fails,i just open a can of whoop @$$! :D
Bunch a ole scudders!

Offline Oregon Bill

  • American Plainsmen Society
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1006
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 153
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2014, 11:25:15 AM »
Yeah, but you wear all that to go to church in town on Sunday?

 ;)

Offline dusty texian

  • Chief Scout Wehmeyer Ranch's.
  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2134
  • Dusty Texian
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 107
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 01:07:15 PM »
And he sport's a black mask,and wonder's why folk stare ,,,,,"The Dark Ranger",,,,,,,,Dusty

Offline GunClick Rick

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 10068
  • Scudders all of yas~
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2014, 03:51:06 PM »
Yeah, but you wear all that to go to church in town on Sunday?

 ;)

You ever seen a potluck dinner at a first southern baptist church!!! :o
Bunch a ole scudders!

Offline Blair

  • NCOWS Member
  • Top Active Citizen
  • ***
  • Posts: 2484
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2014, 05:17:08 PM »
GCR,

How many guns do you feel you need at a potluck dinner by any Church event?

Am I missing something here? and in regard to this original posting?
Blair
A Time for Prayer.
"In times of war and not before,
God and the soldier we adore.
But in times of peace and all things right,
God is forgotten and the soldier slighted"
by Rudyard Kipling.
Blair Taylor
Life-C 21

Offline pony express

  • Top Active Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3629
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Carrying More Than One Gun
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2014, 08:31:05 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if someone in, say, Arizona in 1865 would be more likely to own/carry more than one gun than someone in Nebraska or Kansas in 1895. Conditions were not all the same through the whole time period. Just my thought, but I don't have any evidence one way or another.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk

© 1995 - 2023 CAScity.com