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The Cutting Edge / Re: Butcher Knives
« Last post by 1961MJS on Today at 10:33:17 AM »
Hi Dale
From what I've read in a book on Mountain Man equipment:

Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men: A Guide to the Equipment of the Trappers and Fur Traders Who Opened the Old West / Russell, Carl P.

and on Bowie knives:

Norm Flayderman's Bowie Knife book.

The Civil War (Revolvers were reliable) changed the usage of a man's knife carried everyday from an important weapon to an important tool concerning food preparation.  The Bowie knife we all know and love was a weapon that could be used to cut your food.  After the Civil War, the knife was a tool to cut your food and maybe people that upset you.

The Native Americans didn't seem to carry the knife for weapons as much (they have tomahawks, arrows, and those big old clubs).  I haven't STUDIED this part as much.

The Winchester Model 1876 / Re: IMR 4831 ??
« Last post by Slamfire on Today at 09:40:20 AM »
 King, now y'a talk'n, as you know when it comes to the 40-60 we are pretty much on our own as far as "old" smokeless loads. Looks like you found a very good load for the 4831, (good shoot'n).
 Have a 1/2" of ice on everything here this morning, but in time i'll get to it, but not sure how much to start with. Will base starting load based on 45-60 & 45-75 loads, thank you for your help.

  coffee's ready,  Hootmix.
The Leather Shop / Re: Skidmore's A Step Further
« Last post by Johnny McCrae on Today at 09:30:52 AM »
You’re all showing some fine work, just shows to, that you can’t go wrong with Skidmores Leather Cream, I’ve been using it since 2006, when it was suggested by Cowboy WC
It was Ten Wolves who put me on to Skidmores many years ago. Skidmores is one of the many great tips I've received here on the Leather Shop Forum throughout the years.
The Winchester Model 1876 / Re: IMR 4831 ??
« Last post by King Medallion on Today at 08:51:29 AM »
I must be dyslectic, I could have sworn it said IMR 4198. my bad. However, I have tried H4831SC.
The Winchester Model 1876 / Re: IMR 4831 ??
« Last post by King Medallion on Today at 08:48:22 AM »
My load is basically a starting load, haven't had time to really work it more, keep buying new guns as a distraction. On the other hand, when the starting load is good, makes me question whether or not to keep working for better.
The Winchester Model 1876 / Re: IMR 4831 ??
« Last post by Slamfire on Today at 08:35:37 AM »
King ,i'v been reading on the said subject, (4831) and believe it is slower than IMR 3031 which i have had good results with. Also, i think it will be a full capacity load. You can PM me your me your load's if you don't want to post here. A friend wants to give me a pound (old stuff).

  coffee's ready,  Hootmix.

 * Hey Drummer, thank you, yes i have read the article, sometimes i like to hear from others experiences with some of these powders.
Tall Tales / Re: Happy New Year Coffee
« Last post by The Trinity Kid on Today at 08:20:18 AM »
Morning all.

-5, WC to -8, and more white stuff falling.

Montana is a Constitutional Carry and open carry state. They offer permits, but all you gain is reciprocity to other states. Fortunately the only state I frequent is Idaho, which is also a constitutional carry state, so I’ve just saved my $35.

Once I’m back in CA, I’ll have to jump through their hoops, including but not limited to: $100/2 years, photo/fingerprints on renewal, 8 hour training course before initial issue (waived for veterans), interview with sheriff (should be more social than anything, considering I worked for him before), and a printing fee for a laminated card.

Tall Tales / Re: Happy New Year Coffee
« Last post by Silver Creek Slim on Today at 07:05:22 AM »
Morning y'all.
Coffee and tea are ready.

'Tis -21 and clear. It's not called the "frozen tundra" for no reason. High of 11.

The Winchester Model 1876 / Re: IMR 4831 ??
« Last post by King Medallion on Today at 05:33:20 AM »
Works great in my 45/75.
The American Plainsmen Society / Re: Butcher Knife
« Last post by Tsalagidave on Today at 01:51:44 AM »
A 'butcher knife' was more common vernacular since it pre-dated the 'Bowie Knife' fad of approximately the late 1830s into the 1870s. It was a variety of large meat-cutting knives (including the Bowie pattern) made by a variety of firms both in the US and in Europe.  I have seen articles from the 1880s implying that the carrying of a large blade was more of a rarity and this makes sense that easily reloadable metallic cartridges and a folding blade would be more convenient and practical. Still, here are a few period accounts on carrying knives which was clearly more common in the earlier decades going back to the colonial era.

“Over it (the shoulder) hung a powder horn and a bullet pouch, and around his body was a leathern belt in which was thrust a large formidable knife. A loaded rifle lay carelessly across the rider’s shoulders.”
-Rural Kentucky (ca.1800-10s) Pioneer Life in the West – J.B. Finley (written in 1857)

"A long butcher knife in the belt with tomahawk and a long, heavy rifle.”
-The Great West (1851) Henry Howe

“Every man wore a full buckskin suit and a pair of moccasins. In a belt which he always wore, he carried a couple of pistols, two large knives and a tomahawk. What we called a tomahawk was a kind of hatchet which we used to chop our meat up with, and in fact do all the chopping that we had to do.”
-Richens Lacey "Uncle Dick" Wootton

Wootton also described a similar set of arms for those whom he had hired on to accompany his outfit as stated in a letter dated June 24th, 1852.

“I armed each of the men, Americans and Mexicans alike, with a first-class rifle, a pistol, and knife, and thus equipped we started our long drive…”
-The Rocky Mountains into New Mexico Territory (ca.1830-50’s) – “Uncle” Dick Wootton

"The hunting-shirt was universally worn. This was a kind of loose frock, reaching halfway down to the thighs, with large sleeves, open before, and so wide as to lap over a foot or more when belted. The cape was large, and sometimes handsomely fringed with a raveled piece of cloth of a different color from that of the hunting- shirt itself. The bosom of this shirt served as a wallet to hold a chunk of bread, cakes, jerk, tow for wiping the barrel of his rifle, or any other necessary for the hunter or warrior. The belt, which was always tied behind, answered several purposes, beside that of holding the dress together. In cold weather, the mittens and sometimes the bullet-bag, occupied the front part of it. To the right side was suspended the tomahawk, and to the left the scalping-knife in its leathern sheath."
-Bang’s History of Methodism, Life Among the Early Settlers of the West (1824)

“The dress of these people is generally half civilized, half savage. They wear a capot or surcoat, made of a blanket, a striped cotton shirt, cloth trousers, or leathern leggins, moccasins of deerskin, and a belt of variegated worsted, from which are suspended the knife, tobacco-pouch, and other implements. Their language is of the same piebald character, being a French patois, embroidered with Indian and English words and phrases.”
-Washington Irving's Astoria, Ch, IV

Another Description of a Mountaineer

"A hunting-shirt of ruffled calico of bright dyes, or of ornamented leather, falls to his knee; below which, curiously fashioned leggins, ornamented with strings, fringes, and a profusion of hawks’ bells, reach to a costly pair of moccasins of the finest Indian fabric, richly embroidered with beads. A blanket of scarlet, or some other bright color, hangs from his shoulders, and is girt round his waist with a red sash, in which he bestows his pistols, knife, and the stem of his Indian pipe; preparations either for peace or war. His gun is lavishly decorated with brass tacks and vermilion, and provided with a fringed cover, occasionally of buckskin, ornamented here and there with a feather.”
-Capt. Benjamin Bonneville, 1837

Description of Missourians

“They were all dressed in the same fashion: a pair of “homespun” pantaloons, tucked into thick boots reaching nearly to the knee, and confined round the waist by a broad leathern belt, which supported a strong butcher-knife in a sheath. A coarse checked shirt was their only other covering, with a fur cap on the head.”
-Life In The Far West (1849)

A description of the modern 'Pike's Peaker' as witnessed by Albert Richardson of the New York Tribune while visiting the growing town of Denver City at the foot of the Rocky Mountains.

“The men who gathered about our coach on its arrival were attired in slouched hats, tattered woolen shirts, buckskin pantaloons and moccasins; and had knives and revolvers suspended from their belts.”

Richardson recalled the appearance of many mountaineers found among the 1500 people who gathered from the Pike’s Peak mines to greet Horace Greeley.

“It was a motley gathering in the open air, of men with long unkempt locks, shaggy beards, faces reduced by the sun to the color of a new brick, and bowie knives and revolvers hanging from their belts. They gathered in all the freedom of the frontier.”
-Albert Richardson, 1859

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