Author Topic: 1911 loads too hot  (Read 4128 times)

Offline Howdy Doody

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1911 loads too hot
« on: June 06, 2018, 12:26:07 PM »
Pards it seems I always find new ways to embarrass myself. Recently I shot my first Wild Bunch match. Only real issueI had was muzzle flip with the 1911. Consensus was I was overloaded. I was shooting a 185gr
RN bullet over 5.1 gr of Titegroup. Several on the posse mentioned the loads sounded pretty hot. Well, I found one other using Titegroup and he said hebwas shooting 4.7gr titegroup under a 200gr bullet.
Now I need to straighten this out before trying my hand at WB again. Any opinions on what might work and meet the PF but be less hot?
I want to stick with Titegroup and the Badman 185gr bullets since I have a bunch of both. Thanks.
yer pard,
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Offline Dusty Boddams

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2018, 01:07:09 PM »
HD, in wild bunch the chronograph is your friend! If you don’t have one find someone who does and see what you’re running. With a 185 bullet at 850 fps to give a small cushion to the 150 pf.
185@800fps= 148 pf
185@850=157pf
185@900=166pf
So with you having plenty of these components your just going to be hotter,faster,louder and more kick and muzzle flip  than everybody shooting heavier slower bullets. When you run out of bullets it would be a good time to switch to a 230 round nose traveling around 700-725. Great thing is shooting that 185 at power factor will make the 230’s seem like a nerf gun!  ;D. Dusty Boddams

Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 02:21:14 PM »
Try four grs of Tite Group under 200 gr bullets. Works for me.

With 185 gr increase that by 1/2 gr.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #3 on: Today at 12:46:48 PM »

Offline Howdy Doody

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 05:21:01 PM »
Thank Dusty. Good reference.
yer pard,
Howdy Doody
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Offline Howdy Doody

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 05:30:19 PM »
PJ thanks. I am going to stick with the 185s until I need more so do you think that 4.5 gr of Titegroup would make the PF? I do not have a croni and I have not seen anyone with one at the local level in years. I would hate to show up for a match and my ammo not make the grade. We seem to download below anything published and the reason I ask. Thanks pard.
yer pard,
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 05:39:17 PM »
I've never run that thru' a chrony. I don't own one.  It is not exactly a wimp load.

Check a loading manual for velocity with Tite Group or Bulls Eye. They are pretty close in burning rate.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline 1961MJS

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 05:48:47 PM »
Hi

Bullseye is about equal to Titegroup.  I was STRONGLY advised to use 4.0 grains of Bullseye with 185 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutters.  Used that for years.  It's accurate enough at 50 yards with my Bullseye guns.  Bullseye is diry, but meters really well.  Not sure what the powerfactor is.

Later
Mike
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Offline August

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2018, 06:36:08 PM »
We have very few shooters who use 185 grain bullets in WB competition.  You need a lot of velocity on the 185 to make power factor and that makes the gun pretty "whippy".  In fact, the combination of Titegroup and 185 bullets just about guarantees a jumpy pistol at our power factor standard. There are a few shooters -- mostly women -- who use the lighter bullets, so they obviously can be made to work.

But, the goal of shooting a 1911 -- particularly in Wild Bunch competition -- is to follow the front sight through the entire recoil phase and squeezing the trigger when the gun gets back to the target.  This is best done with a 230 bullet as the gun is not as snappy as it becomes with running 185 and 200 grain bullets at 150 PF.  You can verify this yourself by observing the greater size of the circle created by the sights when using lighter bullets (torque+recoil).  When you get "good" with a 1911, you'll be in constant contact with the front sight throughout the entire recoil cycle of the gun.  That's where the speed is as it pertains to shooting the pistol.

Therefore, you'd be well advised to use our now practically universal load of 4.0 grains of WST under a 230 grain round nose.  Few belt buckles go home with any other load.  Then, once you've mastered following the sights with a standard load, you can use your 185s for practice and unimportant matches.  Starting with the 185 grain loads will slow your development and create habits you'll later have to work hard to overcome.  Not worth it in my view.

Hope this helps....   I'm aware it's not what you wanted to hear....


Offline Howdy Doody

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2018, 06:48:18 PM »
Very informative pards. I think I will make up a couple hundred round of the 185 rn and use 4.5gr if the Titegroup and see how that works out for me. It is sure to make the PF. If I see a chrono set up I will be able to check for sure. That is a good sized reduction from the 5.1 gr that I loaded to shoot my first WB match.
I also plan to order some Winchester WST. I plan to use that for my shotgun loads for WB. I used factory AAs for shotgun and used the Titegroup for the 44-40 rounds I shot in rifle. I had no issues with those guns or ammo I used in them. Just the 1911. I shot traditional and I did have to pull the muzzle down after each shot. Being a BP shooter I am more used to recoil going straight back Luke a push, so I was not used to the flipping up. Once other shooters asked what powder I was using because of the sound I figured I was overloaded. Thanks pards.
August that is very informative to me and since I plan to get some WST to duplicate as much as possible the factory AA loads I did well with then I should get heavier bullets too. In fact I can cast 200 gr as I have a mold but I would need to get some smokeless lube for them. I am on a mission to get set up and only have to think about shooting WB and not every little detail I did at my first match. I wasn’t really prepared for loading 7 rounds in the mags either and that freaked me out a bit plus I always shoot a SxS to boot. I’ll get it eventually and I thank you for your assistance.
yer pard,
Howdy Doody
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Offline Silver Creek Slim

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2018, 07:08:10 PM »
This is a site I use a lot. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

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Offline wildman1

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2018, 06:39:09 AM »
My wife tried some 200g bullets and in order to make PF she felt her loads were to hot. She changed to 230's and uses Clays and is hitting 160 to 165 PF and is very comfortable with that load.
wM1
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Offline PJ Hardtack

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2018, 02:53:12 PM »
I shoot 200 gr RNFPs over 4 grs Tite Group in IDPA from my Remington 4-1/4" "Commanders".  If any gun would be "snappy" to shoot, it would be a Commander.
Like I said, they've never been chronoed, I've never been challenged and they put down Pepper Poppers with authority. The power factor in IDPA is less than IPSC.

Shooting the same load from a 5" 1911, I'd be very surprised if it didn't make the "Wild Bunch" power factor and the controlability is greater with the heavier Gov't model I'll be shooting in "Renegade" this weekend in "Traditional" class - one paw.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to others and I require the same from them."  John Wayne

Offline Howdy Doody

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 07:21:09 PM »
Wildman and PJ. My neighbor gave me some 230s although they are jacketed the will be fine at the indoor range and I will try 4.4 TG under the 200s and 4.0 gr under the 230s for a start to see how they feel and see if my recoil spring works akright with them. It is a 15#.  I might take a couple others with me if I have issues. Thank you my friends. I will let you know how they do on the Titegroup.
yer pard,
Howdy Doody
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Offline wildman1

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2018, 06:17:30 AM »
If your springs are right your ejected cases should land between 3 and 9 feet from you. then you won't have problems with your slide etc.
wM1
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Offline Howdy Doody

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Re: 1911 loads too hot
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2018, 09:53:19 AM »
The indoor range I shoot at near home has padded walls on both sides of a booth. Hard to say but I know that I can probably tell by how hard the brass hits me when it bounces off. If I am functioning alright I can fine tune after the next match at my club as it is a permanent range. Today I am going to make up some dummies to see if I need to do anything with OAL. I don't think there is a problem because I have shot this WB dedicated 1911 probably about a 1000 times by now.
yer pard,
Howdy Doody
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