Author Topic: 44 wcf smokeless loads  (Read 37259 times)

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2011, 11:20:18 AM »
Howdy
Deer season is just around the corner . Is your rifle up to the task of shooting past 30 yards ? What's your shot group size at 40 yards ? Does your rifle need a .427 or a  .429 diameter bullet ?

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2011, 07:03:54 PM »
Rowdy,

I know this topic is a little old, but so are our interests, right?

I’ve been playing around with Unique in my Uberti ’73 44WCF.  I have a short rifle with a 20 inch barrel, so I expect my velocities to be a bit lower than yours, but they are a little lower than I expected.  How much velocity loss should there be with shorter barrels?

I worked my way up to 8 gr. of Unique, which averaged at 1117 fps.  It was interesting to note that, if I settled the powder forward in the case before firing, my average was 1040 fps.  If I settled the powder to the rear of the case, my average was 1197 fps.

I then tried 8.5 grains.  The overall average was1163 fps. (1090 fps with the powder forward and 1235 with the powder to the rear).  The velocity difference was apparently on either side of the speed of sound—there was a much louder crack with each shot with the powder settled to the rear. 

I was hoping for a load that put me in the 1200 fps range, but I also don’t want to abuse my rifle.  There seems to be wide-ranging opinions on what the Ubertis can handle.  Does anyone here have an opinion about Unique loads?  Can I regularly use 8.5 grains?   Does the position sensitivity of the powder seem excessive?  As a comparison, I tested some WW231 loads (7.5 grains) and they showed a similar position sensitivity.

I’ve reloaded for many years, but I’m still trying to get a handle on smokeless loads in this caliber.

Thanks.

CC Griff
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2011, 07:31:47 PM »
CCG
Are you weighing out the powder or using a powder dropper . I have a Lee and the book says the disc is one thing and the actual weight is another . The actual load that I will Hunt with is Unique 8.6 and a 200 grain lead bullet I only shoot a few of them cause I feel for the 1873 action that is Max . Now if it works out I may use Goex Black Dawge ammo if I have the time after Hunting for clean up . Good luck with your load , and keep me posted on your findings .

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2011, 08:03:53 PM »
I regulate my loads by actual weight.  I use the scale to set up the adjustable powder measure, then use the powder measure, periodically double-checking it on the scale.  I forgot to mention that my bullets are cast in a mould which nominally produces 205 grain bullets, but mine weigh more like 215.

I'll keep playing and let you know.  Thanks for the reply.

CC Griff
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2011, 07:34:44 PM »
CCG
Have you slugged your bore ? and what is the bullet dia. your shooting ?

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #65 on: Today at 11:03:40 AM »

Offline Coal Creek Griff

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2011, 09:41:22 PM »
Yes I have slugged the bore.  I'm using .429 bullets.  I tried some mid-range loads with Red Dot and 700X today to check whether they showed the same position sensitivity.  They all show about 150 fps difference with the powder towards the front or rear of the case. 

I wonder if 1200 fps is an unreasonable goal with my 20" barrel. 

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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #66 on: November 05, 2011, 08:30:09 AM »
The biggest thing I like about the Trail Boss in my 44wcf and 45 colt cases. It fills the case. I don't get those huge spreads in velocity and a double charge would be obvious.
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #67 on: November 05, 2011, 05:17:00 PM »
Howdy
Yes the Trail Boss does a GREAT job , but I didn't get the velocities I wanted ? But maybe I should try it again ? I think I will load a few tonight and try them tomorrow . Will post the results .

Offline Harley Starr

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2011, 10:27:50 PM »
Hey Rowdy,
it sure would be a spectacle if you posted a video of .44WCF smokeless being shot from the USFA and Uberti Winchester.
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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2011, 11:06:03 PM »
Howdy
Yes the Trail Boss does a GREAT job , but I didn't get the velocities I wanted ? But maybe I should try it again ? I think I will load a few tonight and try them tomorrow . Will post the results .

The Trail Boss loads I get lower velocity than some others but for CAS I dont want them any faster, I've never loaded a max load of Trail Boss to see what is even possible.

If I was going to hunt with my 44WCF I would try some Titegroup because I remember experiencing good accuracy with more velocity. If I remember right I was getting somewhere close to 1200 fps in a 20 inch barrel with the suggested starting loads of Titegroup when I tried it. I remember being surprised at the velocity with it but felt like it was more than I needed for Cowboy action.

I was trying other things because I first had a lot of trouble getting Trail Boss to work in my Dillion without spillage and uneven charges. I since figured out to use the large charge bar since the Trail Boss is so bulky. With the large charge bar it works flawless.
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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #70 on: Today at 11:03:40 AM »

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2011, 01:57:07 AM »
Based on PET LOADS by Ken Waters, I have loaded 9.0 grains of Unique in an original 1873 rifle (relined)  Now I use 5.0 grains of Titegroup or 6.2 grains of Herco foe regular competition.  If I wanted a smokeless hunting load I would use the 9.0 Gr. Unique.
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2011, 10:04:03 AM »
Sir Charles
You have shot 9.0 grains of Unique in your original . Have you fired many rounds  ? I'm curios about the pressure and I'm sure you can understand my concerns . What year is your original ? Thanks for your input .
As for a Video using 44wcf in the USFA and my 1873 Uberti Why not , now to figure out when . We will be at Deer Camp in another week ( I can't wait either ) hope the weather will cooperate . Any suggestions .  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2011, 01:03:37 PM »
Sir Charles
You have shot 9.0 grains of Unique in your original . Have you fired many rounds  ? I'm curios about the pressure and I'm sure you can understand my concerns . What year is your original ? Thanks for your input .
As for a Video using 44wcf in the USFA and my 1873 Uberti Why not , now to figure out when . We will be at Deer Camp in another week ( I can't wait either ) hope the weather will cooperate . Any suggestions .  ;D ;D ;D

Yes I did shoot 9.0 gr of UNIQUE.  I don't anymore as I finaly ran out of it.  Someone gave me a lifetime supply of HERCO which is just a bit slower than Unique and I haven't hunted with this caliber so I just thought I'd use either BP or slower smokeless loads for range "work".  I am not at home but it is 19th century full octagon rifle (shortened to 20 " by the original owner, whose son sold it to me), but relined.  Again, I am not in my librarry, but I recall that Ken Waters used a bit more for the '73, but 9.0 tops for revolvers.  

My Chrony says that 9.0 matches BP velocities. I'm not sure about pressures, as Waters did not publish that bit of information.

Would I recommend 9.0 grains. All I can say is that I got the data from an older but reliable source, and it worked for me. beyond that, I guess you are on your own.

P.S;  jUST SAW A RECENT POST BY 44WCF. on the 1873 board. Apparently the MAXIMUM LOAD SANCTIONED BY THE POWDER MAKER IS 8.6 GRAINS OF UNIQUE.

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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2011, 10:51:49 AM »
Sir Charles
The 8.6 grains of Unique worked real good on a Coyote . He was at about 55 yards and the 44wcf put him down .

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2013, 12:11:39 PM »
Howdy
Has anyone played with any new loads for there 1873 rifles lately . I have ready several post by 44wcf and he has worked with RL 7 and has good results . What's in your bullets ???

Offline Tjackstephens

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #75 on: April 06, 2013, 03:13:48 PM »
Rowdy, My cowboy load out of my Marlin Cent. 44-40 shoot very well out to 150 yards. It is 4.9 grains of Clays that's a .427 bullet. I know the cowboys that Marlin made later were .429. Don't know how this would be for hunting. I did thake a deer with that rifle, but it was a jacket Remington load. The deer did not know the difference between it and a .30/06. When I shoot black powder I use my Yellowboy in 44/40. Don't think you can beat 44/40 if you are shooting black. The Marlin Cent. came out in 1994 it was the first gun I bought when I got into cowboy action shooting. I learned to reload 44/40's for this rifle. Then I got 44/40 revolvers. Sure do like the 44/40 round in black or smokeless. Tj 
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2022, 12:29:33 PM »
Howdy
I had to dig up this old post . I had almost  forgot about it . And yes I am bored and always looking for the best load I can find . 



Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2022, 09:55:23 AM »
Howdy
I am hunting for reloader 7 powder . I hope to find a pound and try a few rounds .

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2022, 06:13:18 PM »
Howdy
I found a pound of reloader 7 and I have Hornady xtp 200 grain bullets . I plan on using these as John talked about . There is published data from Alliant , will use that data .

Offline Bryan Austin

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2022, 07:57:06 AM »
Howdy
I found a pound of reloader 7 and I have Hornady xtp 200 grain bullets . I plan on using these as John talked about . There is published data from Alliant , will use that data .

There is only one published load for the 44-40 using Reloder 7. This load has been published by Lee, Alliant and Hercules. This load is only for a 240gr lead bullet.

John wrote up some pretty good posts about Reloder 7

https://sites.google.com/search/44winchester?query=reloder%207&scope=site&showTabs=false

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40/contributors/john-kort

 

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