Author Topic: 44 wcf smokeless loads  (Read 37260 times)

Offline River City John

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2010, 06:52:43 PM »
It ain't even any good to season your beefsteak with! :-\
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Offline Harley Starr

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2010, 08:01:52 PM »
Blackpowder or smokeless, I applaud Rowdy for wanting to breath new life into an old cartridge.
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2010, 12:40:04 AM »
Howdy Pards
I am trying to get a  smokeless load to duplicate my black powder loads . But most of the smokeless data is pretty WIMPY loads .
I am working with Unique Powder and it looks to be the load .Hope to fire them tomorrow if it's not pouring down rain . I have a couple days off and hope to camp and Hunt . Hope to put a hurt on the coyote population . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's tough to be a Vintage Hunter . 

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2010, 04:31:43 PM »
Howdy Pards
Got a chance to shoot the loads over a chronie the first load came in at 1.1346 2. 1314 3. 1386 these were smokin HOT so I fired the second load and it was where I wanted 1.1251 fps 2. 1273 fps 3. 1240 fps I was using Unique powder and the difference in these loads was only .4 grains not even a half of grain ???

Offline James Hunt

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2010, 08:56:14 PM »
Smokeless! Huh, is technology something or what! What will they think of next? At this rate we are going to be walking on the moon someday - OK, maybe that is a stretch.

But I have one concern with this smokeless stuff. How can we keep criminals from using this? I mean if we can't see them how is law enforcement going to shoot them? I sense a need for some government action here, perhaps a background check or a license. Then again, do normal citizen's really need this, it is not really a hunting powder after all! We need a new agency, yeah that is what we need, more bureaucracy to protect the public from unauthorized smokeless use.

Does Chuck Schumer know about this stuff yet?
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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #25 on: Today at 11:19:21 AM »

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2011, 01:18:33 PM »
Howdy Pards
I was able to go shooting today . The wind was blowing and it was cold . I shot some groups at 50 yards and they were decent ,but not what I want . I want to put 3 shots in a nice small clover leaf group . I am satisfied with my powder weight , the 8.5 grains of Unique is working good .

Offline Dirty Brass

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2011, 11:16:34 AM »
Have you tried different bullets with this load, i.e. .424/.427? Maybe a slight tweak is all that you need now...

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2011, 12:59:52 PM »
Have you tried different bullets with this load, i.e. .424/.427? Maybe a slight tweak is all that you need now...

The largest that will chamber.  Recall the old mantra for cast bullets;- .001 over groove diameter.
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Offline Montana Slim

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2011, 05:51:13 PM »
My 44-40 rifles are more forgiving than my revolvers regarding bullet diametrs, so I use .428 diameter.
IMO, relatively soft bullets are best, even with the modern powder given the relatively low velocity. I home-cast mine...a flat base is generally better as well. Might try some 225 grain bullets.

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Offline bear tooth billy

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2011, 06:56:23 PM »
Rowdy, I use 6.5 grains unique or 21 grains APP in my 44/40s . I have a Henry and a 66 Ubertis and an original 73
all weak actions so I never loaded anything hot. I use the sharps if I need some serious power. Sounds cool if you
could get a coyote with the 73 good luck!!!

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #30 on: Today at 11:19:21 AM »

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 12:56:14 PM »
BTB
Them Coyotes are crafty critters  .Make you feel like Elmer Fudd    I HATE those silly Coyotes .  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Trailrider

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2011, 07:09:58 PM »
[The following load is posted for the interest and curiosity of readers and is NOT intended as a recommendation for use in any other guns but my own. I CAN ASSUME NOT LIABILITY FOR ACCIDENTS OR INJURIES RESULTING FROM THE USE OF THIS DATA!Usual disclaimer.]

I have almost since starting CAS shooting used 8.0 grains of Hodgdon's UNIVERSAL...NOT CLAYS, although Hodgdon's has made IMHO a mistake in using the word "Clays" in conjunction with "Universal".  Universal is very close to Unique in burning rate. Plain "Clays" is near Bullseye in burning rate.  This load of 8.0 gr. is GREATER than the maximum shown by Hodgdon's for this powder, however, a hotter load is shown for 250 gr. bullets in .45 LC.

This load is used behind a 213.5 gr. hard-cast commercial bullet.  I have fired about 3,000 rounds through a Navy Arms M1860 Military Henry replica (toggle-link action), with no noticable increase in headspace measurement.  (Note that I seldom shoot this rifle nowadays, simply because it is quite heavy...NOT because I am retiring it from wear.  This load runs around 1173-1210 ft/sec from the 24-inch barrel, depending on air temperature.

CAUTION:  You CAN DOUBLE CHARGE A .44-40 case with UNIVERSAL, and the results would be serious, perhaps catastrophic!  I use Winchester brass, and have gotten 20+ reloads from the brass, fired in both the Henry and M1892 Winchester clones.

This load produces 950 ft/sec from Old Model Ruger Vaqueros that have .425" throats and the bullets are .430" dia.  I have not run pressure tests on this load due to lack of a gun that I can get a strain gage on for the Oehler M43 PBL, as my guns are stainless, and that is tough to get a strain gage to stick to.

I recommend dropping to 7.0 grains and working up using a chronograph.

Ride CAREFUL, Pard!
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Offline Chase

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2011, 07:14:00 AM »
Rowdy,

As far as powders go, you might try Western's Blackhorn 209.  It loads the same (volume) as blackpowder, has smoke like
blackpowder, is not sensitive to moisture, and cleans like smokeless--ie--with solvent not water.  I don't have a chronograph, but they claim increased velocity over blackpowder.  The only drawback you will find, I think, is the price.  But for hunting loads when you aren't shooting a bunch, I would say that it will do the job. I have used it in my rolling block (43 spanish) and have loaded 45 colt and 357 magnums.  It's nice to see the smoke and not the clean up chores.

 Let me know what you think. 
Chase
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Offline Buffalow Red

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2011, 01:32:37 PM »
so were do i find the factory recomned pressure spec on my rifle & or ruger 44-40
wanting a hot hunting load in smokless for the 1866 & can use in the ruger's also
dont need any stretched brass
year before last shot a doe with 1866 200 g lead full case of 2 f disapointed with results
looking for more 
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2011, 02:10:00 PM »

year before last shot a doe with 1866 200 g lead full case of 2 f disapointed with results
looking for more 

Try the same volume of FFFg for approximately the factory duplication load.  Use the softest cast lead you can for game.
NCOWS #1154, SCORRS, STORM, BROW, 1860 Henry, Dirty Rat 502, CHINOOK COUNTRY
THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Those who are no longer ignorant of History may relive it,
without the Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
With apologies to George Santayana & W. S. Churchill

"As Mark Twain once put it, “History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.”

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2011, 05:57:17 PM »
Howdy Pards
The load I came up with works Great . According to the computer program If I sight it in at 10 yards it will be be dead on at 86 yards .  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2011, 11:16:20 AM »
Howdy
The smokeless loads are loaded and waiting for Wiley Coyote  . I have a load that should be the equivalent to the black powder loads . That way my rifle will shoot the same with either ammo . BTW there are several loads for the 44wcf that is way to hot for the toggle link actions , they are for the 92 action which will handle the hotter loads . make sure the loads are for the 73 ,66 or Henry .

 

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2011, 05:15:07 PM »
Howdy Pards
After working with various loads of Unique I have finally found it . It came in at 1240 fps . This is a accurate and Healthy load .
                 8.0 grains of Unique  Has anyone used this load ?????

Offline Montana Slim

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2011, 05:56:21 PM »
..........8.0 grains of Unique  Has anyone used this load ?????

I recall off-hand that that is a rather long-standing full-power load recommendation for Unique & many "cowboy" cartridges of similar bullet weight/case capacity. It's listed in one of my old ideal loading manuals (actually they go significantly higher, which I suspect is data better suited for 1892 rifles).

I've tried it, but nothing special compared to other loads I've used.....and, when I do use smokeless in this caliber, I prefer to keep em fairly weak.

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Offline Steel Horse Bailey

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2011, 08:31:21 AM »
Jed.......I got's-ta know.......what is the dia & weight of yer booolit ya load'n in yer 45 Long Colt......in front of that 5.2 gr of Clays... ???   ???   ???

I use Clays in my 357 too (I call 'em Hornets...5gr behind 158 gr RNFP...just under SASS speed limit) and I was wonder'n what to use in my newly acquired Bisley 45 Long Colts... I thank you and Steel Horse Bailey.....   ;D   ;)

Yeti76620


This posting of Rowdy's is past most hunting for now, but a good load is a good load, no matter the season.

Yeti-man,
That recipe worked very well for me back in the old days  :o  when I still shot all smokeyless loads in 45 Colt.  Now, I'm a BP man 99.9% of the time.  (I still love my 1911s, M1, AR, Glockenspiel and 22LR, etc.)  Like Jed said, that's pushin' a 250 gr. thumper and sized @ .451" or .452" thru .454" (which is my choice of sizing now, but not when I started and was using commercial cast/swaged bullits.

Trailrider,
You are SO right ... I wonder what those Hodgdon folks were thinking!  Clays; Universal Clays.  Huh?   ???  What's next:  Hunting Clays?  Shooting Clays?  Clays Clays?


Rowdy,
I have a kwest-shun: you started this post asking for a smokeyless load for 44-40 that would mimic the power & velocity of  a BP round.  A lot of things were suggested, and it seems you've found a winner.  GREAT!  Good on ya!  My question is, what do BP rounds you were trying to duplicate chronograph at?  I know that some folks have issues trying to get readings for BP rounds because of the extra powder 'n such blowing over the screens.  What was your experience with that?  I've only been around a chronograph once when a friend asked me to go along to help test his new Chrony chronograph, about 13 or more years ago.  We shot no BP loads that day, but I'll bet YOU have done so.
"May Your Powder always be Dry and Black; Your Smoke always White; and Your Flames Always Light the Way to Eternal Shooting Fulfillment !"

 

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