Author Topic: 44 wcf smokeless loads  (Read 37262 times)

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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44 wcf smokeless loads
« on: December 25, 2010, 11:32:15 AM »
Howdy Pards
I am looking for some Rifle loads for a 1873 (Uberti } the smokeless loads I have found are Cowboy loads and are mostly wimp loads .
I was wanting the smokeless loads to duplicate the original Black Powder velocity only, not trying to reinvent the 44 mag .  ??? ??? ???  Wanting to run about 1300 fps max and a min of 1225 I found a load (Mike V ) of 18.0 H4227 under a 200 grain bullet but didn't like it .

Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2010, 02:52:56 PM »
Rowdy;  Ken Waters PET LOADS has a number of choices, but I am away from my Library, visiting the Grandgirls for Christmas.

His choice was Unique.
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Offline Texas John Ringo

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 04:15:50 PM »
Have an old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook (1973) that list a number of loads for a 205 gr. cast bullet, in the range you're looking for. These were rifle loads.
1.Red Dot 8.0 gr @ 1225 fps
2.Green Dot 8.3 gr @ 1230
3.Unique 10.5 gr @ 1355
4.700X 8.0 gr @ 1270
MAX  Loads

Hope this helps

Merry Christmas

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Offline Tascosa Joe

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 08:05:59 PM »
Rowdy:

I have had good luck with Unique in 44 WCF and 38 WCF.  The newer Lyman books show lower loads than in the previous post.  I am not sure if new Unique is hotter than the 70-73 books or if the company has lawyered up.

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Offline Cliff Fendley

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 10:20:34 PM »
Unique will make em cook and my 73 loves em.
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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #5 on: Today at 11:23:08 PM »

Offline ira scott

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 11:12:14 PM »
Rowdy,
 I've got my Pet Loads "Bible" right in front of me. Mr. Waters has his .44wcf data divided into Group 1 for weaker actions(winchester 73), and Group 2 for stronger actions(winchester 92). He does have 18.0 gr. of 4227 listed as his most accurate cast bullet load, but he of course wasn't shooting your rifle! In the Group one loads for both cast and jacketed bullets he lists 9.0 gr. of Unique to be accurate/excellent loads. You didn't mention if you were using cast or jacketed bullets, but it looks like Unique should be a good choice with either one. Are you planning on pokin a hole in a critter with that cowboy gun? The MV for both the cast and jacketed loads was 1250fps. from a 24" original 92 rifle.
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Offline Dirty Brass

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2010, 06:16:56 AM »
I have to agree with Unique being a good candidate. I have run mine up to 8.5 gr., but I suspect a little more is possible. In cartridges of the world 12th edition they list old data as 11.1 gr Unique over a  200 gr SP for 1125 fps and 550 fp/e. That seems a bit high tho  :o

Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2010, 11:27:27 AM »
Howdy Pards
I am trying to work up a Hunting load . I have cast bullets and jacketed bullets . I am working with Unique at 9.0 and will test fire them today . I fired some over the chronie yesterday using 8.6 of Unique and it did GOOD  . I also tried the H4227 with 18.0 grains and didn't care for it . The velocities were in the 1150 fps range and lots of unburned powder .
               I want to Thank everyone for all the data and advice .

Offline Jed Cooper

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2010, 02:23:55 PM »
Rowdy, Just a suggestion, I have been using 5.2 grains of Hodgen clays (Steel Horse Bailey's recipe) in my 45 colt loads for my brother, a friend, myself For several years now, for NCOWS shooting. We don't care for wimp loads. They ring the steels with authority. They are consistent, clean,& powerful. They hunt with them with confidence. The same load should be fine for 44wcf.. again Just a suggestion.     Jed
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Offline yeti76620

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 02:49:07 PM »
Rowdy, Just a suggestion, I have been using 5.2 grains of Hodgen clays (Steel Horse Bailey's recipe) in my 45 colt loads for my brother, a friend, myself For several years now, for NCOWS shooting. We don't care for wimp loads. They ring the steels with authority. They are consistent, clean,& powerful. They hunt with them with confidence. The same load should be fine for 44wcf.. again Just a suggestion.     Jed

Jed.......I got's-ta know.......what is the dia & weight of yer booolit ya load'n in yer 45 Long Colt......in front of that 5.2 gr of Clays... ???   ???   ???

I use Clays in my 357 too (I call 'em Hornets...5gr behind 158 gr RNFP...just under SASS speed limit) and I was wonder'n what to use in my newly acquired Bisley 45 Long Colts... I thank you and Steel Horse Bailey.....   ;D   ;)


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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #10 on: Today at 11:23:08 PM »

Offline Tjackstephens

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2010, 03:05:32 PM »
Pards I have been using clays for years in my cowboy loads, 200 grain 44/40 bullet over 4.9 grains of clays. In 200 grain 45 colt with 4.8 grains of clays. The 44/40 is a good one, the 45 colt is milder. Also used 4.9 grains of red dot for the same 44/40 load. Would think the load that Ringo posted for red dot would be plenty powerful. Have a good hunt Rowdy. Tj
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Offline Sir Charles deMouton-Black

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2010, 03:21:15 PM »
I use that 9.0 gr. UNIQUE in my '73 short rifle, and OMVs.  RCBS .44 - 200 FP (210gr.) at 1250 fps in the rifle. Sighted in for 75yds, it is 1.6 " high at 40 yards and only 3.5 - 4.0 ' low at 100 yards.  Bal coef. 1.62 and 500 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards

http://www.handloads.com/calc/
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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2010, 03:31:38 PM »
Howdy Pards
I went and choreographed the load of 9.2 grains of Unique and a Meister 200 gr. in a .429 bullet .
1.  1433 fps
2. 1447 fps
3. 1418 fps
These were only the 9.2 load so there is no way I would use the 10.5 loads in my 1873 no way . And there is another load I found calling for a 10.9 grain load  , but it's for the Colt ?? handgun
  These rounds were fired from a 24 inch barrel on a 31 degree day ,wonder what they would do on a 90+ degree day .
  will try a 8.9 load and see what they do ???
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Harley Starr

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2010, 04:13:43 PM »
Howdy Pards
I went and choreographed the load of 9.2 grains of Unique and a Meister 200 gr. in a .429 bullet .
1.  1433 fps
2. 1447 fps
3. 1418 fps
These were only the 9.2 load so there is no way I would use the 10.5 loads in my 1873 no way . And there is another load I found calling for a 10.9 grain load  , but it's for the Colt ?? handgun
  These rounds were fired from a 24 inch barrel on a 31 degree day ,wonder what they would do on a 90+ degree day .
  will try a 8.9 load and see what they do ???
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hey Rowdy, any chance we could get a demonstration on YouTube? ;)
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Offline Grizzly Adams

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2010, 10:26:41 AM »
6.2 grains of Titegroup with a 200 grain cast RNFP will put you real close to 1300fps.  Good load in a 73. :)

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Offline Will Ketchum

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2010, 01:14:56 PM »
I agree with Grizzly, I used Unique for over 30 years in 45 Colt.  When I got a chronograph I found 100 fps difference between muzzle up and muzzle down.  I tried Titegroup and there was virtually no difference no matter how I held the muzzle.  I have used Titegroup ever since.  I suggest going to the Hodgdon'a web site and see what they say.

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Offline Rowdy Fulcher

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 11:42:41 AM »
Howdy Pards
Thanks for all the data . I will try the titegroup when I pick up a pound . At present I have the Unique and the H 4227
When the weather get better ,warmer and no wind . Will try these loads in my Rifle and Pistol .I hope to  get the velocities the same as Black Powder loads .

Offline Jed Cooper

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2010, 03:59:28 PM »
Jed.......I got's-ta know.......what is the dia & weight of yer booolit ya load'n in yer 45 Long Colt......in front of that 5.2 gr of Clays... ???   ???   ???

I use Clays in my 357 too (I call 'em Hornets...5gr behind 158 gr RNFP...just under SASS speed limit) and I was wonder'n what to use in my newly acquired Bisley 45 Long Colts... I thank you and Steel Horse Bailey.....   ;D   ;)


Yeti76620
I'm using Lazer cast  silver boolits 250 gr. .454    I have not chrono these. But they hit hard, shoot well, and are very consistent.   Jed
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Offline James Hunt

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2010, 02:07:13 PM »
What is this "smokeless" stuff you guy's are talking about? Is this something new?
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Offline Tjackstephens

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Re: 44 wcf smokeless loads
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2010, 02:39:03 PM »
James, It's some kind of new powder. If some one is shooting at you, well you can't see the white smoke to tell where the shot is coming from. I don't think it will ever catch on though.  Tj  :D
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