Sharps Shooter?

[Uncle Eph]

I asked this one over at the Darkside and have not had much luck yet; so I thought I would try it here:

what was the name of the man that was most likely the last person to earn his living shooting a Sharps rifle?  This took place in the Northwest right after the turn of the 20th century.

[Uncle Eph]

I will give you a clue: he was a veteran of both the Lincoln and Johnson county wars.

[RowdyBill]

I asked this one over at the Darkside and have not had much luck yet; so I thought I would try it here:

what was the name of the man that was most likely the last person to earn his living shooting a Sharps rifle?  This took place in the Northwest right after the turn of the 20th century.

Tom Horn as a regulator?

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[Uncle Eph]

nope, good guess tho'.

another clue: he was getting paid $2.00 a head for his shooting and was shooting a 44-70

[Old Top]

Uncle Eph,

Do you mean a 45-70?  I do not remember hearing of a 44-70.

Old Top

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Old Top, the 44-70 was a propriatary cartridge for Sharps., called the 44-70 Sharps Bottle Nose. One of the first necked cartridges. Guys still shoot this one, although with BP it's a real stinker to get to work well. MLV even has to work at it to get it to shoot right. The necked case is the sticking point, guys have the same problems trying to use BP in the 30-30........Buck

[Uncle Eph]

right you are Buck.

I am going to give this another day then I will post the answer.

[Delmonico]

Well the only 44-70 in my dog-eared Barnes book is a Maynard round.  I think ya be meanin' the
44-77-2 1/4-365 I do belive that is the really correct way of desinatin' it.  Barnes says in came out in 1875, But I've heard Billy Dixon bought one after he lost his 50-90 in the South Canadian river when a wagon over turned.  MV for factory is listed at 1460, Remington also offered it in the #1 and the #3 or as it's also known, the Hepburn.   

[Four-Eyed Buck]

You're probably right, Del..........Buck

[Uncle Eph]

my copy of Barnes shows that you are right Del, but goes on to say that it was also listed as a 44-70 and 44-75 depending on the load.

my source lists the load as 44-70-470 which makes sense.

[Old Top]

Thanks all for furthering my education, I am always amazed at the wealth of information on this forum, and that is one of the cartridge I had no knowleldge of but I can see it would be a bear to load and get right.

Old Top

[Uncle Eph]

Top, I have been messing around with these danged old single shots for many moons and I am still amazed by what I don't know.

I do know that Del should quit sippin' that cooking sherry, the 44-77 was introduced in 1869 not 1875 according to Barnes.

here is one for ya, some years ago I bought a Sharps conversion and the old boy I bought it from threw in a bunch of brass and bullets and some of the bullets were lead hollow points and he said that they were designed for a 22 short blank to be inserted in them as a exploding bullet, they were quite old and he claimed that he got them when he bought the rifle many years before.  I did some research and he was right, now I can't remember where I read up on them.  I never had guts enough to try them out and they are still around here someplace.

any of you guys ever heard of such a thing?

[Delmonico]

I didn't read far enough, I only read the first column and the load chart.   I wasn't drinking the Sherry it was Mr. Barnes, course my friend Dr. Jay says there are a lot of flaws in the Barnes book.    I have seen many referances to it prior to 1875.  I alwasy see it listed as the 44-77.

I'm gonna get brave and drill out a 457122 some time and try that with a water jug.

[Old Top]

Morning Uncle, Delmonico,

I have heard of the rounds as you have described, and I think most of them were before the 1890's and used for taking down dangerious game mostly in Africia, they were outlawed after the Boar War, which had the last actual calvery charge that a young Winston Churchill particapated in.  I do not think they were used much here but as I am working with a faulty date bank (what little mind I have left) I could be mistaken.

Old Top

[Delmonico]

No the Brits had their own line of cartridges, often each gunmaker had their own, the British rounds are far more confusin' than the America rounds, in fact I have had the pleasure of seeing and handlin' rounds that Barnes don't show.  With the Brits sometimes there are identical rounds like the 577 Nitro that has the same 750 gr bullet but uses 100 grs. cordite for one brand and 110 grs for the other.  Now that don't sound like a big deal till ya try the wrong round in yer double and stead to hittin the elarfunk in the head ya hit him in the arse and make him mad, now you got's one more round that won't hit ta point of aim. 

I do recomend Barne's Cartridges of the World, it has a few flaws but what book don't.  In fact it makes better bathroom reader than Readers Digest.

[Uncle Eph]

I have a first edition Barnes and the latest edition and what cracks me up is that they very seldom change any of the data, when we all know that new info about these old cartridges comes to light all the time.

I learned to treat the Barnes as a starting point and not the last word.

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Del, i'll have to get one of those. The Readers digest is kinda boring .......Buck

[Delmonico]

I was hopin' after Mr. Barnes died they'ed do a good update.  It does make good readin' in the john though.

[Uncle Eph]

ok sports fans, here is the answer you all have been waiting for: Jesse Selkirk.  Ol' Jesse was a bad man that landed in central Oregon in 1903-04, he was hired to kill livestock that crossed from one side of the "deadline" to the other and was paid $2.00 a head for doing so, during the summer of '04 he killed appox 3000 sheep for the "Crook County Sheepkiller Association" and a unknown amount of cattle for the Sheepowners.

Jesse had no use for the new fangled rifles that were popular then and did his work with a 74 sharps shooting a 44-70-470 load, he would go alone into the mountains which the livestock used as summer range and spread a piece of canvas out, set up his shooting stick, wiping rod, 250 rds and a canteen of water and set to work.

Selkirk was known to have been involved in the Johnson and Lincoln county wars years earlier and it was said that he could account for some of the Oregon herders and ranchers that came up missing during the sheep/cattle wars.

I have no idea of what ever became of Jesse or his rifle but I am doing my homework on that.

[Delmonico]

Kinda dissapeared like Dave Mather.