45 colt in uberti 73 for silhouette

[Pappy Myles]

I've been shooting the lyman 452664 250 rnfp in my 24 in barrel uberti for some time now.  Its been used only for SASS matches and in reality only up to about 75 yards.  The bullet has perfermed well.  I've use a varity of powders, trailboss, titegroup, some pryodes and some goex.   I'm think about getting into the cowboy lever action silhouette game.     The times I've tried to bench the rifle at 100 yards, it didnt do as well as I had hoped for.

Has anyone used their 73 in 45 colt in silhouette and what bullet, powder combination do you find the most accurate?.   I've been thinking about getting the 454190 mold and giving it a shot.

[wildman1]

I have a Rossi 92 24 inch barrel in 45 Colt that I use fer silhouette shooting out to 200 yds. I have put 7 shots in a six inch heart painted on a silhouette at 128 yds. The mold is a Lee 452-255 RF. I use 20gs of 2f Schuetzen.That seems ta be the most accurate load in that rifle with that bullet. Twist rate (I think) is about 1/28. Velocity average about 850 fps. Hope that helps ya . WM

[Pappy Myles]

thanks wildman,

Any leading problems, fouling?  I started out with the Lee 452- 200, but couldnt get enough lube in it.

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[wildman1]

When I shoot silhouette I use a blow tube (from my 45-70) my bullet is 255g and has 2 lube grooves. It will foul pretty quickly unless a blow tube is used. We are not timed in these events so the few seconds it takes to use the BT doesn't matter. I have used some Buffalo Arms 250g bullets as well and there was no difference that I could see. The BA bullets were lubed with SPG and my bullets were lubed with homemade lube, 1/3 each crisco, beeswax, parafin. I since have substituted deer tallow for the crisco. Makes me hungry when I shoot tho. WM

[w44wcf]

Pappy,
I have tried several different bullets in the 45 Colt rifle to determine which is the most accurate.......especially at longer distances beyond 100m.  In my experience I have found that bullets with the larger meplats (nose diameter) (Semi Wadcutters, Lee, etc) shoot larger groups at 100 than the traditional 45 Colt bullets (copies of the original 454190, etc) at velocities up to 1,200 f.p.s.  At about 1,200-1,300 fps the larger meplat bullets shoot better groups.  You might want to try a slower powder like Blue Dot or 2400 or 4227 and see if that helps.  

That being said, a friend uses the same bullet wildman1 uses (Lee 255) over 6 grs of Trailboss for the 40m chickens, 50m pigs & 75m turkeys and 20/4227 for the 100m rams.  The 20/4227 load seems to give him better accuracy at 100M than the 6/Trailboss otherwise he would use the Trailboss load there.


The 454190 is a good bullet but the meplat is a bit smaller than a primer so it would be a good idea to only load a few in the magazine at 1 time. To date, the very best groups I have gotten have been with the RBCS copy of the 454190. The RCBS bullet does have the same smaller meplat (nose diameter) though but has a disinct forward driving band whereas the 454190 does not. The Remington bulk bullet shoots almost as well.

Having had great success with the 427098 bullet in the 44-40, I decided to have Accurate Mold make a version of that for the 45 Colt.  Previously, Fairshake had Accurate make an improved version of the 427098 (43-210B) with flat bottomed lube grooves which has worked extremely well. Thank you, Fairshake.

That Accurate bullet for the 45 Colt is 45-260B.  As you can see in the pic it has a slightly larger meplat (not as large as the Semi Wadcutters and similar bullets) than the traditional (early) 45 Colt bullets so no issues with a magazine full.  

I have only had a chance to test it once at 100 yards and it performed very well with a 10 shot group in the  3" range (5 in under 2").  Powder / charge was 9 / Herco. It's showing great promise....

 

w44wcf
 

[Pappy Myles]

Thanks W44, good info.......After I cast about 50 of the 454190, the smaller flat point does cause me some concern for tube loading

[wildman1]

I just picked up a '73 in 45 Colt with a 30" barrel and will shoot a silhoutte match next weekend with it. WM

[Pappy Myles]

Howdy Wildman,

I'll be interested in your results and bullet powder combination

[wildman1]

I shot it today (first time) I tried 20g, 25g and 30g of Schuetzen 2f. I used the blow tube when I shot thru the Chronograph. I hadn't loaded very many rounds so I finished at 100 yds with no blow tube, 7 shots (all I had left of the 30g) 4 1/2' group. I think it will shoot better than that after I get rid of the semi-buckhorn rear sight. The group was about 1 3/4" wide. I am loadin some more of the 30g andwill do some 35 and 40 grain loads also. I was usin the Lee 255g bullet about 30-1 alloy.  There was no hard fouling in the barrel after the 7 shot string which surprised me. It is pretty humid today. WM

[wildman1]

Shot yesterday, 20 to 35g of 2f, 20 to 35g of 3f in 5g increments. At 100 yds best group was 7" worst group was about 12". All five shot groups. Dismal. Went to handloads.com and started messin with the twist rate calculator. Seems the best combination that I could come up with was a 405g bullet at 634 fps. I had no idea what load would give me that velocity. So I started with 17 1/2gs of 2f, then did 20gs of 2f, then 25gs 2f.  With the 17 1/2g load the group was spread out (12"), ranged in velocity from 536 to 606, not very good, the 536 was quite low the other 4 shots ranged from 586 to 606. Next the 20g load ranged from 620 to 636. Right where it should be. 3 1/2" group. Finally 25gs ranged from 696 to 714. A little high on the velocity. Group size was 3". I don't think either of those groups were an anomally. I didn't crimp any of those loads just seated the bullet deep enough to get a little more than 1/16" compression. Powder was Schuetzen. Bullet was a Lee 457-405 sized to .452.  Twist rate is 1 in 18. Definitely going to pursue the 20g load a little further. Seems to be about the same recoil as the 30g loads I tried yesterday with the 255g bullet. WM

[Grapeshot]

Shot yesterday, 20 to 35g of 2f, 20 to 35g of 3f in 5g increments. At 100 yds best group was 7" worst group was about 12". All five shot groups. Dismal. Went to handloads.com and started messin with the twist rate calculator. Seems the best combination that I could come up with was a 405g bullet at 634 fps. I had no idea what load would give me that velocity  Bullet was a Lee 457-405 sized to .452.  Twist rate is 1 in 18. Definitely going to pursue the 20g load a little further. Seems to be about the same recoil as the 30g loads I tried yesterday with the 255g bullet. WM

How are you loading that 405 grain bullet in a .45 Colt Case?  Sized to .452 or not, you must be loading that 1873 Uberti Winchester one round in the breech/chamber at a time.  It will not feed through the action otherwise.  Did I miss something here.  This thread was about the Winchester 1873 lever action rifle?  Right?

[wildman1]

Shot yesterday, 20 to 35g of 2f, 20 to 35g of 3f in 5g increments. At 100 yds best group was 7" worst group was about 12". All five shot groups. Dismal. Went to handloads.com and started messin with the twist rate calculator. Seems the best combination that I could come up with was a 405g bullet at 634 fps. I had no idea what load would give me that velocity. So I started with 17 1/2gs of 2f, then did 20gs of 2f, then 25gs 2f.  With the 17 1/2g load the group was spread out (12"), ranged in velocity from 536 to 606, not very good, the 536 was quite low the other 4 shots ranged from 586 to 606. Next the 20g load ranged from 620 to 636. Right where it should be. 3 1/2" group. Finally 25gs ranged from 696 to 714. A little high on the velocity. Group size was 3". I don't think either of those groups were an anomally. I didn't crimp any of those loads just seated the bullet deep enough to get a little more than 1/16" compression. Powder was Schuetzen. Bullet was a Lee 457-405 sized to .452.  Twist rate is 1 in 18. Definitely going to pursue the 20g load a little further. Seems to be about the same recoil as the 30g loads I tried yesterday with the 255g bullet. WM

  Grapeshot every thing before DISMAL was a 255g bullet. That being said, the sihloutte shoots that I go to are loaded and shot one at a time. Think about it would a 17 1/2 g charge of 2f fill a 45 Colt case? A 25g charge does little more than half fill it. The 45Colt bullet measures .625", the 405g bullet measures 1" that is a difference of.375" a little more than 1/3", not much when you are only filling the case approximately half full. The inside of a 45 Colt case measures a fraction over 1", the 405g bullet from the base to the crimp groove measures 9/16". Pretty easy fit.  WM

[wildman1]

How are you loading that 405 grain bullet in a .45 Colt Case?  Sized to .452 or not, you must be loading that 1873 Uberti Winchester one round in the breech/chamber at a time.  It will not feed through the action otherwise.  Did I miss something here.  This thread was about the Winchester 1873 lever action rifle?  Right?

Yes it is about the '73. That particular '73 has a twist rate of 1 in 18 which really does not do a very good job of shooting the 255g bullet at silhoutte distances. What effect would sizing the bullet have on cartridge length?  WM

[wildman1]

Howdy Wildman,

I'll be interested in your results and bullet powder combination

    Pappy Myles, I shot my first silhouette match yesterday with the '73 using the 405g bullet, 20gs Schuetzen 2f'. I shot clean, no misses. I'm thinkin that might be a good combo for that gun. WM

[Four Eyes Henry]

That's thinking outside the box 

How will the toggle links hold up, guess time will tell 

 

[wildman1]

That's thinking outside the box 

How will the toggle links hold up, guess time will tell 

 

This round has less recoil than 30gs of 3f Schuetzen with a CAS Big Lube or a Lee 255g bullet. Muzzle velocity is between 630 and 650 fps depending on compression. I'm guessing it will hold up just fine.  WM

[Four Eyes Henry]

Hmmmm....
Factor wise its (405 x 650) / 255 = 1032 fps
But energy wise its 0,5 x mass x velocity square  .......ehhh, you are right.

[Pappy Myles]

The heavier bullet (405 grainer) got me to thinking and looking.  I'm betting my uberti has a fast twist rate 1 in 16 to 1 in 18.  I'll check that out tonight.    I'm thinking about haveing accurate molds make me one in about a 300 grain weight.  I'm looking at 45-295B.  Looks like the 455109 but a little longer.

[wildman1]

The 350 to 380 grain bullet in a 1/18 twist should have an optimum velocity of less than 400 fps due to its length. I'm going to lighten my 405 g bullets by making them into hollow points thereby retaining the overall lenght. Just an experiment we'll see if it works.  Four Eyes Henry, Uberti  does make the '73 in a 44 mag so I'm guessin it may hold up. WM

[Pappy Myles]

I went ahead and ordered a mold for the 45-295B from accurate molds.  Ought to be in in a couple of weeks or so. it's suspose to cast out at .454  weigh 295 grains and have an OAL of 0.79.   I'm thinking a starting velocity in a 1 in 18 twist somewhere around 650 to 700 fps?