Star-Line 45-70 brass

[PJ Hardtack]

My Winchester 45-70 is getting pretty tired, so I bought 200 Star-Line cases. First thing I noticed was the uniformity of their length. I was prepared to do a lot of case trimming, but I don't think it will be necessary.

I also feel that it is harder and thicker than Winchester or Remington brass. I've read that it is between those two insofar as capacity. Time and experimentation will tell.

Next step is annealing them in batches of 50 ....

[wildman1]

I've found Starline and Remington capacity to be the same. wM1

[PJ Hardtack]

... and I'm sure that would vary with different batches of the same brand.

I'm quite happy with the Remington brass I have and load it with two grs less powder than I do Winchester.

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[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

... and I'm sure that would vary with different batches of the same brand.

I'm quite happy with the Remington brass I have and load it with two grs less powder than I do Winchester.

My unprimed W-W .45-70 cases weigh 166-167 grains. They are lighter than the others, therefore have the most capacity. I have heard that 8 grains of brass have the same volume as 1 grain of SMOKELESS powder.

My R-Ps are 185 grains, more or less a grain or so.   I have a single Hornady case that I found whilst hunting, and it is the same at 184 grains.

F-Cs are heavier at  about 195 grains.

I sort my cases by rifle and load. The W-Ws get loaded with BP for use in my Pedersoli Sharps, Gemmerized by Gabrial Law, and the F-Cs are loaded with 4895 for the 1886 BLR SRC. The R-Ps were mostly converted to 40-65 for my Browning BPCR as the base is slightly slimmer for the tight chamber in the BPCR.

[PJ Hardtack]

Just finished annealing 100 Star-Line 45-70 cases. I gave them the same 4 second flame exposure that I do other makes, just a tad slower count. I think they're going to be OK.

There is a difference in the sound between annealed and virgin cases.  Un-annealed cases go 'clunk' when you handle them. The treated cases go "clink". Something is definitely changed in the metallurgy.

What do 'normal' people do on grey, snowy, blustery days? I've never known.

[ndnchf]

Somehow I always associate "clunk" with a softer metal, and "clink" with a harder metal. Do I have this backwards?

[PJ Hardtack]

I haven't the foggiest. What say our resident metallurgists?

I'm just the messenger reporting factual results. The brass still has a lot of strength after annealing. After annealing a batch of Winchester bras that I over heated, you could crush the case mouths with your fingers.

[Coffinmaker]

PJ,

I am at a loss.  I have now basis on how to answer your question.  "NORMAL" is a setting on a clothes dryer. 

I, personally, have never, ever, been maligned with the descriptive "normal."   

However, on cold and snow days, I study to become a Black Belt ...... Couch Patada.  Or, after warming my shop, I mess around loading
ammunition and lopping off the barrels of handguns to an acceptable length.   

Coffinmaker

[PJ Hardtack]

I just ran a few Star-Line cases through my RCBS case prep machine. The brass is remarkably hard even after annealing.

I'm wondering just how good this brass is going to be when loaded with BP. In the case of .45 Colt brass, we know to expect blow back unless it is annealed.

[wildman1]

Never had any blowback in any of my 45-70's or my 45-90 with Starline brass. wM1

[Blackpowder Burn]

I load nothing but BP in my Starline brass - 45-70, 40-65, 38-55.  I've never annealed one, never had any blowback problems, and have not yet had a failure after about 5 years. And I shoot them on a regular basis for Cody Dixon matches.

[PJ Hardtack]

That's good to hear. This Star- Line brass is pretty tough stuff. Way back when Venturino came out with his book on Buffalo Rifles, he mentions the hardness of Star-Line brass.

I note in the equipment lists published in BPCN that several shooters use Star-Line. Looking forward to using it.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I weighed a couple of my W-W cases. They were 166-167 grains. i will add this to my post above.

[ndnchf]

Last week I loaded up some WW 45-70 brass following Wolf's book for reporducing original Frankford Arsenal loads. Before this, I didn't think I could get 70gr of 2F Goex in the case, but I did. The WW case have the highest capacity of any modern brass.

[PJ Hardtack]

How much compression of the powder?

It's not a trick to get in more powder if you seat out the bullet - if the rifle has a long throat and/or a bore riding nose.

[ndnchf]

I used the Lee 405 hollow base bullet which is nearly identical to the original bullet. Powder was poured in without using a drop tube, then compressed about .600". Bullet was then seated and crimped in its normal position. Next I want to get the Saeco 500gr government bullet mold and try that bullet.

[PJ Hardtack]

My previous comments were based on the presumption that you were referring to the 500 gr bullet, not the 405.

[DTS]

I had always thought the Lyman #457125 was the original Government bullet. Sometimes, their moulds cast under size in the nose with them, though. Being a nose ride design, the nose should lightly touch the lands.  Over the last 5 or so years, they were supposed to address this problem.  The Lyman bullet has the normal black powder design of grease grooves - square bottomed.

[ndnchf]

Many years ago the Ideal 457125 was a close copy of the original Frankford Arsenal 500gr bullet. But they changed the design over the years and it's not quite the same now. If you Google "Saeco 881" you'll see the original style bullet. The current 457125 is a little undersized to shoot well in original Trapdoors. But it may be fine in modern rifles.

[DTS]

The Green Mountain 18" twist barrel on my Sharps is a bit tight- .448" bore and .457" groove. The #457125 mould I have, the blocks purchased at Rendezvous for $10.00 due to being undersized, fits perfectly in my bore, but I do note, they can be small in diameter, both base and nose.  It is quite accurate as well as the newer Schmitzer, spitzer Lyman mould. I cannot find that mould - I must have loaned it to someone??