.45 Colt Cartridge forensics

[w44wcf]

The pic is of a dissected U.M.C. head stamped .45 Colt cartridge.
Manufacture date approx. 1900-1910.
 
It contained 40 grs. of FFG powder.



For those of you that have an historic interest in "the way it was",
o.a.l. - 1.59"
case type - SHBP (Solid Head Button Pocket)
case weight - 85 grs.

bullet wt / type- 250 gr / hollow base
alloy - pure lead 4.2 b.h.n.
bullet length - .73"
seating depth - .43""

powder compression - .20"
primer - copper / mercuric

cataloged velocity 6" barrel - 910 f.p.s.

I tested 10 of these vintage cartridges in a 24" barrel. The primers were dead so I replaced them with 2 1/2 Remington's.
They averaged 1,241 f.p.s. at 15 ft. in front of the muzzle.  That's moving right along!

By comparison, 40 grs by weight of Goex FFG averaged 1,131 f.p.s.  Obviously the b.p. used by U.M.C. in those cartridges had a higher ballistic strength.

Cartridge history is interesting.....

w44wcf

 
 
 

[Coal Creek Griff]

I agree.  That is very interesting.  What time period are those cartridges from (or did I miss it)?

CC Griff

[w44wcf]

CC Griff,
Sometime between 1900 & 1910 or thereabouts. I added that info to the post and also the case type and weight.

w44wcf

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[Coal Creek Griff]

Thank you.   Most interesting.

CC Griff

[matt45]

Great Thread
     I am thinking that if the old primers had been active the velocity would have been greater.  Makes one think the old actions may have been stronger than is currently thought.

[Shotgun Franklin]

Notice how small the rim is on that case. That's why the .45 Colt made a poor round for a levergun, there's not much of a rim to catch.
BP is very easy on guns. At Work we use BP on one stage and those guns never seem to have a major problem associated with the ammo OUTSIDE of residue. If BP was cleaner we might all still be using it, except for the Military.

[tommy4toes]

I've played a lot with BP cartridges over the years; I first got into shooting BPCR. Being a history buff, I gravitated towards paper-patched bullets - and it was all over. I ended up dreaming of bayberry wax grease cookies, graphite, onionskin, and BP granulation. After intensive psychiatric evaluations, I now am stable, but still pursue the arcane knowledge of the past. After all, smokeless IS a passing fad.

I've reloaded powder taken from antique cartridges, and it is largely still good( I tried to light some from 38RF cartridges by flame to no avail, but put a cigarette out in them - lookout). The nearest approximation I've come across is by compressing Swiss powder with standard primers. Hmm.

Still learning.

Tommy4toes

[will52100]

Good info, I will have to look at my notebook sometime, but I did a bunch of chrono testing when I first got one and if I remember rite my Swiss loaded 45's were doing about 12-1300 FPS.  That's with a 250 grain PRS bullet and 38 grains of Swiss, I've since backed off a smudge for slightly less compression for accuracy.  Might be time for another round of testing?

[Jrw8214]

I thought handguns were loaded with FFF. This is loaded with FF. Is this why alot of people have a hard time loading 40 grains of bp into .45 Colt cases these days? Because most guys i see doing it use FFF.

[matt45]

There is a thread on the 1876 side w/ a test result for an overloaded toggle- link.  Pretty interesting.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Don't forget this was done with ballon head cases, modern solid head cases will generally hold only 30-35 grains of FFF BP.

[Coffinmaker]

There is more case capacity difference than one would think just looking at the drawings of the old cases.  Even though there were some
impressive velocities achieved with the old ammunition, BP was then and is now very forgiving when it comes to raw chamber pressure.
The "burn" if you will, isn't as fast as with some modern smokeless (Damn Fad Stuff) propellants and the pressure curve, when measured
with modern equipment is entirely different.
There are actually several reasons 45 Colt was never loaded in a lever rifle during the Great Western Migration and Settlement.  As has been mentioned, the case rim is quite small with no attending groove for the extractor.  The extractor would simply tear thru a fouled
case, leaving it stuck in the chamber.  Not so good.  The old "original" cases at the time were for all practical purposes, copper.  Soft.
Copper cases obturate well, but still allow fouling.  The only cases actually suitable for lever rifles were 44 Henry Flat and 44 Henry Flat
Central Fire.  Thicker case rims.  Why the 45 Colt didn't mime the Henry Flat case rim is a mystery. 
45 Colt, in modern guns, with "fad" powder and be frightening.  Seriously frightening.  Back in my earlier days, when loading for a fine
Ruger Blackhawk 3 screw, I developed a load with 255Gr Keith Type bullet that exited a 4 5/8 barrel at 1450 FPS.  It was not gobs of
fun to shoot a lot.  I did take an Elk with it in Washington state though.  Fired at 48 paces.  Elk dropped "right there."  Load that round in a Colt, Colt reproduction, or even forbid, an Open Top or Conversion, that round will turn those guns into a kit.  Lots of reassembly required.
That is the main reason I have never supported chambering the Open Top Reproductions (hate the term Clone) nor the Conversion reproductions in 45 Colt.  Simply not enough meat in the cylinder/chamber walls.  45 Colt can easily be loaded to exceed the 44 Mag.
Scary good cartridge.
Lets Play

Coffinmaker

[Virginia Gentleman]

That is why I don't have Rugers or any other guns that are capable of handling those magnum like loads, I don't even have the temptation to load hot ammo for it.  I stick with mild or standard .45 Colt loads that any of my guns can fire safely.

[w44wcf]

Don't forget this was done with ballon head cases, modern solid head cases will generally hold only 30-35 grains of FFF BP.

I have found an average of 3 grs. less powder capacity in modern brass as compared to the SHBP (Solid Head Button Pocket) cases of yore (the type shown in the pic in the first post).  They were balloon head of solid 1 pc construction.  The folded head cases that preceded them were balloon head and 2 piece construction.

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Coffinmaker,
Nice informative post. Thank you.   I bought my first 45 Colt in '74 and my goal at that time was to see how hot I could load it....safely. After I 'grew up" I learned to enjoy it much more when shooting loads that were representative of its original ballistics.
I now have 3 handguns and a long gun so chambered.

For the last 15 years I have learned the art b.p. loading and shooting.   I must confess that I do still shoot some smokeless though......

Several years ago I found some original .45 Colt U.M.C. b.p. cartridges like the one in the pic. I was curious to see if the narrow rim would have been a problem in a levergun.  50 cartridges were fired with a full charge of 40 grs. of b.p. and they extracted aok with no issues. I will say though that in the long run the narrow rim would not be nearly as reliable as current brass.

w44wcf

[matt45]

So when did the 45 LC get its modern rim?

[w44wcf]

matt45,
Sometime in the mid to late 1950's.

w44wcf