Battle Rifle: Preliminary report

[Drydock]

Pending my discussions with the General, I can report this:

1: Fun - I had a hoot!  I've never had as much fun shooting in a combat setting as I did in this instance, using these weapons.  It was fun, safe and highly instructional. 

2: Integration - With one exception, the integration of these weapons into a CAS setting is both smooth and effortless.  The lone exception is the staging of the weapon under current standard CAS rules.  IE rifles are staged hammer down on an empty chamber.  There are reasons peculiar to lever actions for this.  I believe bolt actions are best staged with the chamber empty, bolt open.  There are other options as well, but this will have to be addressed in the GAF rules. Remember this is to be exclusive to the GAF, and only with the approval of the range master.

3: Impact - NO target damage whatsoever.  Under proposed rules it is simply a non issue, both with single shots and repeaters.  We engaged some relatively close targets, some of rather soft steel, and had no damage, no splash back.

4: Speed - I shot two stages with both a Krag, and a Trapdoor.  With the Trapdoor I fired half the number of rifle shots as with the Krag, everything else the same.  On both stages the raw time differential was under 3 seconds.  And in fact the times were quite competitive with the other shooters and their standard CAS rifles.  Had I competed in my normal class, I would have finished 2nd.  Observation: the more rounds fired from the rifle, the more competitive the Milspec weapons become.  IE they reload faster than the standard CAS lever.  Though I envision this class as a compitition unto itself, it would seem in a GAF setting to be little handicap against other classes.

5: Spencers - In private timing, I found the Spencer to have virtualy the same cycle and load times as the Bolt style repeaters.   For those looking for a place to be competitive with a Spencer, this is it.  I would allow Spencers to use Blakeslee loaders here.

In conclusion, I would regard this as a complete success. I would point out here that while it would be ideal for the class to be split between Single Shots and Repeaters, should numbers not allow this I believe they can be integrated into a single class until the numbers become enough to do such a split.

Thanks to Kayleen and all involved for a great experience, and I look forward to doing it all again next year.

[Guns Garrett]

As an outside observer/fellow compettitor, I have only one observation - NO FAIR !!! Drydock got to shoot twice as many stages, as he shot one stage with the Trapdoor, and one with the Krag. (Actually, I don't think he shot all stages twice).  But, seriously, I think the demo went well, and besides, he looked cool doing it.  I would look forward to participating in this class next year, if it is offerred, shooting my Smith breechloader.  A grat time was had my all....
Guns

[Major Matt Lewis]

From a Match Directors point of view I saw a couple of things that would need to be addressed, but nothing that couldn't be addressed.  As Drydock mentioned, the round on a carrier.  But the easy answer is to make the shooter load on the clock.  In that scenario, the shooter would never have a staged rifle with a round on the carrier.  The other, is a little bit more difficult to govern, but it could successfully.  That is ensuring that the cartridge does not exceed current CAS guidelines as far as muzzle velocity and such.  It would not be a good thing to Swiss Cheese a target.

So, there may be the need to be a chronograph.  That said, it could be done.  Now, all things considered, it looked fun and cool, but keep in mind, that it is ultimately up to the MD as to what can be fired and what can not be, because he/she is the one that will have to answer to the lawyers if something goes wrong. 

Now all said, I now have motivation to get a new front sight for my Krag....And a rear site for my Springfield 03.

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[Drydock]

Velocity is indeed a consideration, as it is with all ammunition in such a match. 

As for the loading on the clock, that is indeed a consideration under discussion, but I would add this: The Colt Lightning rifle.

That is, the Colt Lightning, like most bolt actions other than the Krag, is designed to be loaded with the action open.  As closing the action chambers a round, it is understood that Lightnings will be staged action open.  This has been done for over 20 years in SASS shooting.  I feel applying the same consideration to this proposed class is sufficent.  But will bow to the wishes of the command staff in any decision made. Or that of any Match director.

Lever actions are loaded action closed, thus the current rule applys to prevent cycling of the action when staging.   The designs of other actions must come under different considerations in this case.

[Kayleen]

Drydock looked way far cool using this rifle. He along with all of the gentlemen looked neat in their uniforms.
 It was good to see everyone having a great time.
This morning I went out to the range and by the way I just hate it when the events are over, but  with all the hubbub that was posted about damaging targets etc with these guns, is just that, there isn't any damage to be seen. I helped set those targets and know what was on them.
 If the SD ok's using these for next year, it is ok with those of us here.
 The gals of Beaver Creek Social Club are also considering holding a couple fund raisers so that we could maybe get live music here for the formal dinner. Yes it would be period correct for you all.
Kayleen

[Drydock]

Thank you very much Kayleen.  I can't say enough about the fine time I had, or the great support I recieved from you and yours at the the match.  Truely one of the finest times I've ever had, and I look forward to the next year.  Drydock.

[Frenchie]

This is, I think, something that's worth doing. Even if it never goes beyond GAF and is always limited even within that venue, it's worth it for its historical value and for the new knowledge and experience it brings. Kudos to Sgt. Drydock for taking this ball and running with it!

[Old Top]

Sgt Drydock,

I have an original 73 winchester and it loads from the open bolt position.  This is the only 73 I have ever seen do this, I have had it checked out by a gunsmith and he states that it is original and he has never seen one do this either.

Old Top

[Bristow Kid]

Sgt. Drydock,

Your battle rifle demonstration was awesome.  I had a great time watching your shoot.  Your speed with the Krag was very impressive.  I enjoyed meeting you and shooting with you.  Thanks for answering all the questions I had and for setting me straight on my history.  That boat shoot was a hoot watching from the shore as it was getting dark.

Bristow Kid

[Cannon Fodder]

Sarge, Can you be more specific on handling the spencer at  the loading  table, on the clock, half cock position, etc?

Thanks for all the work you are doing on the "battle rifle".

I hope to have my 56/50  rifle soon!

[Frenchie]

Cannon Fodder, I ran the loading table and can answer at least that part of your question: it's very similar to the way the Henry is handled. The Spencer comes to the table and the action is worked to show it's unloaded, then closed for loading. The magazine tube is removed, seven rounds are inserted into the butt stock well, the magazine tube is inserted and locked shut. The lever isn't touched again until the timer sounds. Sgt. Drydock will have to handle the rest. Hope that helps.

[Drydock]

CF, as Frenchie has mentioned, the Spencer handles at the loading table like any other lever action.  Brought to the table action open, verify clear, close and load, hammer down.  Cycle on the line as you feel comfortable, though most use full cock/lever.

On the clock you have 2 options.  For stages requiring less than a full magazine reload, you are best off single loading thru the top.  The Lane equipped Spencer is very fast at this. Maybe the fastest of all the  Battle rifle actions.  For full magazine reloads I believe we will allow the Blakeslee, this for Spencers only.  The Spencer has an extra step in manipulating the follower, thus the allowance for the Blakslee. 

Though it must be said that you are probably better off with continous single loading after the initial magazine has been emptied.  But the Blakeslee is FUN!

[Cannon Fodder]

Sgt Drydock, Frenchie and others

Great info on the spencer!

I cant wait for my 56/50 rifle to come in.

Would you consider sharing your info with the spencer forum?