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US Firearms 1910 and 1911s

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St. George:
Actually - by the time Vietnam was 'beginning' - we had sizeable numbers of unissued Service pistols still in the inventory.
It wasn't uncommon at all to see 'new' WWII M1911A1's and rebuilt M1911's being shipped in to combat units.

The Quality Assurance Program that the military contracted with Colt in the 1960's provided many brand-new-off-the commercial-line parts for the system to support a rapidly exanding military.
You see them as parkerized commercial parts from the 1960's-built Government Models - not to be confused with later offerings from surplus dealers long after the military contract with Colt expired.

Rebuild standards were then as now - high - and no corners were cut for weapons going into issue.
Any weapon undergoing a rebuild is marked as such on the frame - usually a series of letters that indicate the location of the Depot and a date.
I have never seen more than two rebuild marks on any of the US-issue weapons I encountered in over three decades spent with them and I owned one - a WWI(1917)-issue - rebuilt in 1926 to M1911A1 standard and rebuilt for Viet Nam with a S&W Chrome-lined barrel and a 1960's-era Colt Commercial slide as described above.
'That' piece had seen some sights in its long career.

The only 'loose' guns were those that had been 'squad-cleaned' over time and their parts freely mixed.
They'd shoot - which was always a plus - but they also developed the reputation for being poorly-fitted at the time of manufacture - when that wasn't the case at all.
And original weapon - possessing it's own original-to-it parts will really shoot well.
And - the action will have a good 'feel' and 'snap' to it - as does a brand-new one of today.

As an aside - the M16 'problems' were due largely to the insisted-upon use of Ball powder - when flake was best for the smaller cartridge case.
We had tons and tons of Ball Powder and the military wanted to be able to get their money's worth.

We did - in Spades - when you figure the vast amounts of 'boo-coo 7.62' we'd expend.

Increased weapons cleaning training and a chrome-lined barrel and chamber eliminated the problems encountered - along with the creation of a butt-trap for cleaning accessories.

But back to the Government Model as built by Colt and it's authorized military contractors.

A 'real' Government Model is a Colt - and anything else is a clone.
A 'real' Service Pistol was made - in WWI - by Colt, Springfield Armory (Uncle Sam's 'real' Springfield Armory), and Remington UMC.
In WWII - again, Colt, Remington-Rand, Union Switch and Signal, Ithaca  and of course - the 800 that were made by Singer.

Here's where the 'problems' arise.
There are a finite number of these 'real' ones available for purchase.

After the JSSAP Boards ended in 1988 - the M9 was the selected Service Pistol and the older M1911's and M1911A1's were directed to be turned in.
Some - like many of the M1911's - were worn out - the steel in the receiver being 'softer' than their WWII counterparts - and they were scrapped - as were others that were deemed too costly for rebuild.
The rebuildable ones were and went into storage - where they'll most likely 'never' emerge.

Government-sponsored 'Civilian Sales' of these weapons ended with the 'Gun Control Act of 1968' so that acted as another stopper in the flow of quality 'Ex-GI' pistols.

After that - they developed a collector's interest that is still climbing.
In 1966 - a Remington-Rand M1911A1 would sell for $35.
In 1974 - a Colt M1911A1 sold for $145.
Today - that same Remington-Rand goes for $1295 and the Colt for $1650.
A pre-series'70  'commercial' Colt Government Model - was priced at $110 in 1969-'70.
Today - a clean one'll run between $800-$1000.

These are the collector's prices seen - and those guns rise a bit in value every year as their numbers decrease.

Clones abound - but they're never going to have the same cachet of attached value to them.
"Original Finish' means absolutely nothing when 'that' finish was applied a month ago.

Colt recently released a 'new' M1911.
With the 'right' Diamond-checkered grips - it looks 'good'.
Add a two-tone magazine and it'll 'be' what you're looking for if you're more of a purist - or if you want some value to remain should you ever sell it.

Shooting period-original M1911's can be done - but before doing so - look for any cracks in the frame and any 'ovalled-out' holes - and be sure to use new springs.
The steel's getting 'tired', so remember that and act accordingly.

Scouts Out!


PS - the 'problem' with the slide of the US&S pistol was discovered by Field service in 1943 and they were deemed to be too soft and the strengthening billets at the corners of the ejection port weren't being maintained.
The problem was corrected and no further difficulties were encountered.
Slides were difficult machining operations and all manufacturers encountered problems that they had to overcome.
The Ordnance Department reported that US&S pistols rated special commendation for fit, finish and parts interchangeability.

 

Virginia Gentleman:
I have an original 1911-A1 Remington Rand that I have shot with new springs, a  shock buff installed, new magazines and my light handloads using a lead round nose bullet to keep wear and tear to a minimum on the gun.  I liked shooting it very much, but didn't want to make it wear so I purchased a modern replacement,  a Springfield Armory 1911-A1 GI WWII parkerized gun that has the same look and feel with none of the worry.

St. George:
If you 'just' use new springs and Service Ball loads - you can enjoy that piece for a long, long time.

Using the lighter load and the shock-buff make for a very enjoyable piece to shoot.

Look for a spare barrel at one of the gun shows and keep your original set aside.
You can find a chrome-lined GI-issue Barrel very reasonably.
They were  made by S&W and marked with both that and 'MP' on the lug and feature a hard-chromed chamber and bore - making for both easy cleaning and amazing durability - and that's for shooting jacket Ball.
Imagine how it'll handle lead...

If you want to know more about that Remington-Rand - send me a PM with the serial number and I'll tell where it 'initially' was shipped to.

Scouts Out!

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Virginia Gentleman:
St. George:

I was thinking that I did want to save the original barrel and what I ended up doing was buying a chrome lined barrel at the last gun show to do just that.  I was told they are drop in and that it would shoot better than the original barrel.  Thanks for the insight.

St. George:
Thanks to their simplicity - pretty much 'everything' in a Service pistol is interchangeable.
Some 'aftermarket guns may require a tweak, though.

A spare barrel's always a good idea, and as I said - those GI-Issue chrome lined ones are tough barrels.
They were made to alleviate the associated stresses found in heavily moist areas and to handle full-patch, jacketed Ball and they do so quite well.

Remington Rand 'used' to be considered a run-of-the-mill .45 - but that was never the case.
They got that appelation because they were the most commonly-seen of the GI Service Pistols and with good reason - they were the largest producer of them.

During their production - Remington Rand continually improved not only their product, but the methods of its manufacture - winning several 'E' Awards (for 'Excellence') during WWII.
They continued to produce a high-quality pistol throughout their production span.

If someone's looking for a 'good'  GI .45 - they can't go wrong with one - though the others are a little harder to locate and they're priced accordingly.
Plus - thanks to the high number produced - chances of finding a Remington Rand are higher.
Changing over the springs is really all anyone needs to do for any Service Pistol, since the originals are a bit long in the tooth and are somewhat tired.

Like I'd offered - I can give you the contract number and initial point of shipping, should you think you'd like it.
After that - your guess is as good as mine once the weapon got into the system and would continue its service until the late '80's.

Scouts Out!

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