Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => Spencer Shooting Society => Topic started by: gotzguns on September 24, 2006, 09:12:44 PM
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need information on the size and discription of the 7 round boxes that were made for the spencer. i understand that there were 6 small boxes of 7 round each that fit into alarger box so that there were 42 rounds per box. anyone have any info on these i would really like to hear from them. trying to reproduce them, with correct lables and box material. thank you, gotzguns ???
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Hi Gotzguns,
You really have to get a copy of the Marcot book, Spencer Repeating Firearms, as Chapter 12, pages 187-219, has B&W photos with text descriptions of the different boxes used for Spencer ammunition.
For example, the Sage Ammunition Works: "Ammunition was packaged in six inner packets of seven cartridges each, 42 to the box".
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/sage1.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/sage2.jpg)
The Marcot book is a great read. The photos are really something to see.
Two Flints
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Cut and paste to this web site. Has exact dimensions, I believe.
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/7475/articles.html
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The dimensions for the box that holds 42 rounds is in Marcot's book. The entire box is wrapped in kraft paper and glued shut with a tear string to open. The six inner packets are simply 7 rounds wrapped in kraft paper and glued closed. They are put in the wrap (the 7 rounds) in an alternating manner, up and down, so as to present a even dimension when the paper is folded over them. I have checked with various mfg. of boxes, and have found none that have any ready made the propeer size. I am sure they could be had on a special order, but price would be pretty steep for the ammo quantity most shooters have on hand.
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thanks everyone you gave me what i needed to find out. gotzguns :)
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I know this post is old but I have to add some stuff,.....I did a bunch of cartridge box work for Fox Creek Kid,....Here's what we come up with,.....Let me know what ya think, I even did a wooden Crate......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/565042rdUMCCap.jpg)
Top one is mine,....Bottom is the Original,.......
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/56-5025RDUMC.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/5650SpencerCDLeetBoxEnd.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/5650SpencerGreenBox.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/5650SpencerCDLeetBoxEndB.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e29/SSSMod/5650SpencerCDLeetBoxEnd.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/5650SpencerOrangeBox.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/More%20Crates/Inside5650Crate.jpg)
The Originals are below,.....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/OriginalSpencerBoxes.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/spencerammobox3.jpg)
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Sgt. John Chapman, Beautiful job on those labels! The Union Metallic are just what I need for the boxes I made. GG
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Those labels Sgt. Chapman did for me a couple of years ago are great! I had a few boxes made, but I had to glue them myself and the cardboard is heavier than the originals. I think I sent a few to French Jack if I remember. ???
I really like that wooden "Beecher Island" style crate!! :)
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These links offer more views of Spencer Cartridge Boxes ;D ;D
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,13089.0.html
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,13087.0.html
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I went ahead and made my own labels like what Sgt. Chapman did and put them on my own boxes for 25 rounds. I just used backer board from the local DickBlick art supply (as they had stuff that was thin enough and didn't have a coating on it) and cut up my own.
Took an afternoon on a cold rainy day...
My 25rd boxes have seperators so the shells don't make much noise.
I then wrapped the boxes in craft paper and then fixed a label to the outside. I put a thin coat of mod-podge over it all and they are sealed up. 4 boxes like this.
Now, as far as ammo for the range, I just use the 64rd MTM plastic boxes for 50AE and such. Works just fine. :)
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Sgt. Chapman;
If you are still around, I just wanted to say your reproduction boxes and crate are very impressive. I'm curious to know how you reproduced them. Did you use a computer or some from of tracing process, or did you free hand them. Anyway you accomplished them, they are nearly flawless.
I was wondering though about the original ammo crate. Do you have any information about its origins; date of manufacture and/or use. If it came from an arsenal or contract manufacturer. Also could you post the inside and outside dimensions and additional detail photos (with scale). Any help on these details would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Stumbled upon this;
http://www.charliesboatworks.com/breechloadingriflecarbineammobox.htm
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Sir Charles,......Charlie's offers good prices but he takes no time with his markings,....they just look close.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/More%20Crates/Richmond58Crate.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/More%20Crates/Richmond58Crate5.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/More%20Crates/58Cal1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/DSCF0525.jpg)
I have gone to building my repops as close as anyone can without having the original in hand,...Real 1 Inch lumber,..Box Nails,...Accurate markings,...Etc,..Etc..
The 56-50 Spencer crate above is modern 1 inch lumber because I had no planer at that time,... The RA 58 Cal Crate is correct down to the brass lid screws, I did however route a 1/4" lip around the bottom to keep the lid from sliding off while it's being moved.
I do tend to tidy things up a bit on them also, No one wants a crate looking like his sister-in-laws, brothers, youngest child threw it together in art class the other day, Which some crates did look that way.
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archresearcher,......Yes I have set HOURS in front of the computer digging up multiple extra fonts and tweaking everything on my labeling as good as I can get it,...I do make revisions as I find new additions and pictures.
All my other papers are packed up still in the garage,....All I did was take 5 Spencer cartridges and make one of the 7 round boxes to size,.....then made a 42 round box,.....then I drew out how the 42s had to be stacked to get the crate to the shape of the 1008 Round Original I had pictures of. My crate was still not right because it was modern 1" lumber now that I have a Spencer and my rough work done on the inside cardboard cartons,.. the next crate will be right all the way around.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/More%20Crates/EndViewof5650Crate.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/More%20Crates/TopandSideof5650Crate.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/DSCF0527.jpg)
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Sergeant John; The reason I posted the link was because I noticed dimensions, not as a recommendation as a source. Sorry I mislead our members.
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I was only saying while a nice crate those are like saying a henry big boy looks like a real Henry Rifle......Sorry I didn't see the sizing....
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A good source of information on boxes,labels,and sized line drawings of them if you can find them to look at is "The Pitman Notes on U.S.Martial Small Arms and Ammunition.It is in 5 volumes of which Vol.1 is Breech Loading Carbines of the Civil War Period.One of the few places who have them for sale is S&S Firearms,around $30 per volume.
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Do those books have pictures and measurements too Jim Bob?
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Do those books have pictures and measurements too Jim Bob?
These have mainly line dawings with the measurments there are a few pictures. The material in these books is from unpublished manuscripts and notes of B.Gen.John Pitman (died 1933).The measurments are detailed down to the thickness of the material used and in most cases to the thousandth of an inch.As an example on the 1874 pattern for the .45-70 carton he shows the width as 5.820 and the material thickness as 0.040 thick and has the measurements showing where the folds are.Some drawings are shown full size others half size.
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I need a better job,.....I think I'll be spending some more money......Thanks JimBob
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That would help this one look better,.......
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sgt_John_Chapman/Box%20Repos/FA4570Box.jpg)
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LOL Looks pretty good to me.Sent you an e-mail provided my mail is working,they changed services and my mail has been hit and miss as far as sending.
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Received your E-Mail and replied Sir,......The box is just a blank Cheyenne Cartridge box....it will work till I fabricate my own. More or less I used it to hang the label on.
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Got it,sent one back with some additional info.
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I am looking for information on 56/56 ammo packets to make reproductions. I do a soldier from the 123rd Illinois Mounted Infantry of Wilder's brigade for school groups at the Illinois State Military Museum. I have a M1860 rifle and would like to have a reproduction packet of ammunition to show the students. I have seen pictures of labels and even the packets, but can't find dimensions and how they are constructed. I know it can be done I just need some guidance.
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(https://i.imgur.com/m6b4nDz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ubYJFxS.jpg)
I started off making the 7 rd boxes inside.....your big box will hold 6 of those boxes.
These are your measurements. The Craft Paper Tape can be had on Ebay or Amazon.
(Make sure it's water-activated and not re-enforced.)
The cardboard is chipboard backs to office calendars.
I used an orange typing paper from Staples at the time,...It probably could use to be a little darker orange.
This 50 Spencer box is the wrong tape, this was just a proof of concept .
(https://i.imgur.com/W2kT1nR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QSt3ol9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/q3r550G.jpg)