Krag Carbine Reproduction

[Bat 2919]

I was at Winter Range last weekend and learned that Cimarron Arms bought an original Krag Carbine when they were there.  Spoke to the people in their tent and was told they intended to send it to Pedersoli to reverse engineer a reproduction.  Their best case scenario was three years before we see anything for sale.

[St. George]

Wait'll they get a load of just how Springfield Armory built that receiver...

And didn't Cimarron say they were going to reverse-engineer a Merwin, Hulbert about 10-12 years ago?

Scouts Out!

[Forty Rod]

Smoothest bolt rifle ever.

With modern metallurgy and a bit of technical upgrade I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[Advertising]

[Drydock]

Pedersoli produced a handful of Krags back in 1998,  sort of an industrial experiment.  The cost was astronomical or so I heard.  Never seen one, just a few pictures, the point being they allready know how to do this.  Can't be much of a market, and I'm a bonafide Krag lover!

[Niederlander]

For no more than the market is likely to be, and as expensive as the project would be, I'd think it might be more feasible to buy cut down rifles for the receivers and rebuild them into carbines.  It would be somewhat akin to what H & R did to make Trapdoors back in the day.  Evidently, it was far less expensive to use a lot of original parts that it would have been to reproduce everything.  I would think on a Krag carbine you'd primarily be looking at reproducing the wood, the saddle bar, and the barrel band.  Reproducing the receiver would have to be horribly expensive, even if you investment cast it.  Plus, I guarantee the quality wouldn't be what the arsenal built back then!

[cpt dan blodgett]

If they are smart they will make the rib on bolt bear on the receiver bridge and the bolt handle itself act like a third locking lug like the Danish Krags that shoot a round as hot as 8mm mauser with no ill effects.

[Niederlander]

I recall reading about the government testing that supposedly "weak" Krag action.  They totally removed the locking lug and fired a service round with no ill effects.  Sort of like the low number '03's, I think most of the problems with some of these old rifles were far more theoretical than real.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Wish I could remember the serial number range Hatcher used when he tried to blow up an 03.  Took a serious amount of bullseye as I recall but then mom has altzheimers

[Niederlander]

When the Army did it they used a charge in excess of fifty percent over standard before a receiver let go.  They concluded most of the problems were due to poor brass manufactured during the Great War.

[Delmonico]

I think it was Hatcher also said some of the 03's blew up with 8X57 rounds used by mistake.  Also there was something about target shooter greasing cupro nickel jackets to reduce fouling that was part of the problem.

[Trailrider]

Part of the problem that caused M1903 Springfield rifles to blow up was incorrect heat treatment of the receivers. This was on receivers numbered below #800,000 from Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal #285,8XX. (I CANNOT FIND THE EXACT NUMBER OF RIA, but it was at least that high!) I would NOT fire Springfield M1903's with serial numbers lower than about 850,000 just to be safe. After that, some of those rifles were re-heat treated (so-called "double heat treatment" receivers), but the big change was to a different steel. This whole business does not seem to apply to Krag rifles and carbines. See "Hatcher's Notebook pp212-235 or so.  IIRC, P.O. Ackley tested some of the low number, and possibly higher number receivers, and found they were so hard and brittle, if you tapped them lightly with a hammer, they would shatter!

I'd have to believe, the way prices and costs of reverse engineering, tooling, etc., are going up, that a repro Krag would run in excess of $2,500. But that's just my guess.

[Bat 2919]

I was at Winter Range last weekend and learned that Cimarron Arms bought an original Krag Carbine when they were there.  Spoke to the people in their tent and was told they intended to send it to Pedersoli to reverse engineer a reproduction.  Their best case scenario was three years before we see anything for sale.

Just bounced this back to the top as it relates to Drydocks Mike Harvey Krag  info.

[Charles Isaac]

    So what exactly IS the problem with an ORIGINAL Krag?  They are cheap and plentiful, the real deal for about near giveaway prices compared to other antique guns out there. Why buy a repro?

 Same with the Trapdoor for that matter, and other models too. Those old guns haunted by the long dead former users and the spirits will throw your shots all wild?  Think you might get blowed up shootin 100+ year old guns?


    Not here to judge. If some people just like buying brand new guns that no one else has owned, that's fine with me.

[Drydock]

I kinda see the point:  He wants to build an M1896 Carbine, ie reproduce the carbine carried by the Rough Riders in 1898.  Ever price an original documented M1896 in excellent condition?  And double that if it has the 1895 receiver marking. 

It might very well be possible to bring in an M1896 in at under the market price for an original 96 Carbine.  For someone like me, who is happy to take a cut down rifle and remilitarize it for shooting, it's a no sale.  But there may be a market for a well done reproduction of this specific model for those who want an M1896, but would never dream of shooting an original.  Think of how desirable the Cimarron Ainsworth SAA has become, its a cult market all their own.

I'm not holding my breath over this, but it would be nice to see.

[Charles Isaac]

    Ha Ha! You know I know what a Rough Rider carbine is potentially worth Colonel! Both a reproduction and an original cutdown reconfigured into a M1896 carbine will do the same thing, but neither is the real deal and the original does it for a whole lot less than what this repro will end up costing if they can ever even get the CAD right and start making it. Not holding my breath either.


    Now this is just me, but I tried some repros back in the '70's, and they just didn't do it for me. I only ever wished they were real Colts etc. so I sold them and only bought period guns from then on. But again, that's just me and I don't disparage anyone with repro guns. Might kid around a little, and do admire the quality when it's good and am certainly glad they're making them.  They get more people out there shooting and on "our side" when it comes to our 2A rights! 

[River City John]

While there may be a market, is there a suitable venue to shoot them? I can't see a niche for them in NCOWS or SASS.

Let's contact Mr. Harvey and get him to offer a free membership to the GAF with every purchase . . .


RCJ

[Pitspitr]

Why buy a repro?

Well, in my case, I'd rather play with a repro than an original because if I ding the stock or drop it and put a big gouge in it or break a part, I just defaced history. They aren't making any more originals. If I ding, or gouge, or break a repro; Oh well I'll just buy a replacement part.

I guess I feel like if I'm just shooting it in a controlled environment I'd shoot the original, but If I'm playing (reenacting, or GAF shooting) I'd rather not take the chance on damaging an original.

[Forty Rod]

While there may be a market, is there a suitable venue to shoot them? I can't see a niche for them in NCOWS or SASS.

Let's contact Mr. Harvey and get him to offer a free membership to the GAF with every purchase . . .


RCJ

How about for Rocky Mountain mule deer and elk?

I had a friend (RIP Jae) who took both and a lucky shot on a pronghorn (for him, not the antelope).

[Tornado]

Why buy repos?  They could be made for other cartridges.

[Major 2]

Why buy repos?  They could be made for other cartridges.

OOOOH ! ...uh-oh!  Can, meet "O" worms