"Standard Sidearm" Of The Old West?

[Dispatch]

In the year the 1873 Winchester was established, the prolific Colt Peacemaker was also created. It cost $17.50 for a new Colt Peacemaker in 1873. The 1875 Remington Outlaw came out 2 years later. The Smith And Wesson Schofield No. 3 was made in 1869. Not to mention all the different "Conversion" pistols that were left over from the Civil War. Was the Peacemaker truly considered the "standard sidearm" of most civilians and was it carried in conjunction with the 73 Winchester? TV and movies would have you believe so but I beg to differ. Was there another model pistol that was used more frequently in that time period, that just didn't get as much publicity as the Colt Peacemaker did. 

[Frenchie]

Standards are wonderful, there are so many to choose from (old PC technician joke)

From what I've been able to gather, admittedly not much, I'd say that until the 1880s, the most common belt or holster handgun was a Colt or Remington cap and ball sixgun. The Quartermaster Dep't ordered thousands of them and they didn't suddenly become useless in 1873. The Colt Model P was Army issue only for the first few years, civilian sales didn't really get rolling until the late 1870s. Deringers and pocket pistols were very popular and made by dozens of manufacturers.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...From what I've been able to gather, admittedly not much, I'd say that until the 1880s, the most common belt or holster handgun was a Colt or Remington cap and ball sixgun...

I'll go along with that as well. Interestingly, in the 19th century S&W made more "holster" size revolvers than Colt, however most were sold overseas. That's an important factor as overseas sales were vastly important to profits for American gun makers then.

Some historians has gone so far as to say that the most important weapon on the Frontier was the shotgun, as it not only provided protection it also helped fill the larder.

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[Books OToole]

From 1873 to 1940 Colt made 300,000 SAAs.

From 1882 or 83 until 1940 Harrington Richards made 1,300.000 break-top .32s and .38s.

From 1880 -1900 S & W made about a million break-top .38s.

Just something to ponder.


Books

[St. George]

This was an era of rampant promotion and Colt was pre-eminent in the field, thanks to his pre-Civil War marketing strategies.

As such, the name 'Colt' was synonymous with 'sidearm', though Remingtons filled a lot of Union holsters.

Once the cartridge revolvers became predominant, that didn't really change, though Smith & Wesson gave 'em a run for the money.

Oddly, Remington really didn't, since both Colt and S&W were the larger manufacturers 'and' they had the much-valued Army Contracts.

Other revolvers made the scene during the time frame - Forehand and Wadsworth, Merwin, Hulbert, Hopkins & Allen and a myriad of pocket revolver makers found their niche as well.- but Samuel Colt did one helluva job in getting the name out there.

What's interesting is that the terms 'Colt' and 'Winchester' came to be catch-all nomenclature for 'pistol' and 'rifle' - making any lever rifle a 'Winchester' in the parlance of the day.

Folks bought (and used) recognized brands they'd heard of or that they knew the Army bought.

Those who anticipated 'using' them  looked for solidly-built, quality products to spend their hard-earned money on, in order to get the best value.

Those who merely planned on having 'something' around bought by price point, and they could buy a cartridge revolver for under $2, that would fill that bill.

Wild times for manufacturers,  those - and to think that Madison Avenue hadn't even been thought of, yet...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Frenchie]

Let's not forget all the cap 'n' ball revolvers that were converted to fire metallic cartridges. It was much cheaper to send your Colt or Remington in for conversion than to buy a new gun to replace it. For an itinerant cowboy who made about a dollar a day, that was an important point.

[Dispatch]

Let's not forget all the cap 'n' ball revolvers that were converted to fire metallic cartridges. It was much cheaper to send your Colt or Remington in for conversion than to buy a new gun to replace it. For an itinerant cowboy who made about a dollar a day, that was an important point.

Does anyone know, what did it cost to convert a precussion pistol to cartridge in the old west? 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Let's not forget all the cap 'n' ball revolvers that were converted to fire metallic cartridges. It was much cheaper to send your Colt or Remington in for conversion than to buy a new gun to replace it. For an itinerant cowboy who made about a dollar a day, that was an important point.

Actually, that was quite rare. The Colt day book ledgers in the back of the McDowell book only show a few people sending in their guns for conversion and I am sure Colt did not encourage it as well as it was less profitable. Most people simply bought one. Then as now most people wanted something different.

[Dalton Masterson]

Dont forget the plethora of Belgians, Webleys, and numerous other little hard to give a real name too guns.
I read somewhere that these were more common than many American makes, but have no proof of that.
DM

[River City John]

If I remember, the '73 Frontier model production for the first few years was reserved to the military, although some trickled onto the civilian market, but nowhere near enough to consider it a standard sidearm seen in general use by the civilian population 'til after the middle 70's.

[Dispatch]

Actually, that was quite rare. The Colt day book ledgers in the back of the McDowell book only show a few people sending in their guns for conversion and I am sure Colt did not encourage it as well as it was less profitable. Most people simply bought one. Then as now most people wanted something different.

If conversions were not done by the manufacturer, then who did them? If a brand new Colt Peacemaker cost $17.50, how much could it have cost to convert? 

[Delmonico]

Most of the conversions were done on new firearms before they left the factory.

[Dispatch]

Colt's first new model was the 1871-72 Open Top, which was essentially a factory-redesign of the 1860 Army, followed in 1873 by the legendary Colt Peacemaker. 1n 1873 the price of the new Colt SAA was in the range of $12.00, much more than the average western pilgrim could afford. In contrast, for less than $5.00 a Civil War issue percussion revolver could be sent back to Colt or Remington and converted to fire metallic cartridges. And a local gunsmith could probably have done it for even less. (This was brilliantly portrayed in Tom Selleck's film Last Stand at Saber River).
    The 1858 Remington New Model Army appears to have been the first percussion revolver converted to fire a metallic cartridge, produced by Remington in 1868-69 (while the White patent was still in effect) and converted to chamber five .46 caliber rimfire cartridges. Later versions were converted to six-shot .44 caliber centerfire, and the New Model Navy to .36 and then .38 caliber.
   These factory conversions remained in production until the new Remington Model 1875 Single Action Army was introduced, the gun that would give the Colt Peacemaker and Smith & Wesson models their greatest sales competition throughout the 1870s and 1880s. After White's patent had expired, Colt's was quick to enter the field of bored through cylinder metallic cartridge revolver manufacture. Contrary to popular belief, conversions of percussion arms to the bored through cylinder were not the first of the post Rollin White cartridge arms to be made by Colt's. Although the Cloverleaf and Open Top revolvers were marketed initially in 1871, Colt's did not complete any quantity production of the bored through cylinder conversions until 1872, the first being the C.B. Richards alteration of the Model 1860 Army," [followed by the improved Richards Type II, and newer Richard-Mason versions].
    Cartridge conversions were available for most Colt percussion models produced from 1860 on. Field conversions by individual gunsmiths also accounted for a considerable number of cartridge firing cap and ball models seen in the last year of the Civil War and throughout the 1870s. Says Wilson, "Colt's records indicate a total of 46, 100 pistols having been converted by the factory...thousands more were done in the field by gunsmiths. In the 1870s, there was a growing demand for cartridge conversions following the completion of the transcontinental railroad in 1869 and the post-Civil War opening of the Wild West. The Colt [and Remington] revolver in the hands of sheriffs, marshals, outlaws, gunfighters, Wells Fargo agents, cowboys, ranchers, miners, sodbusters, and Indians was quickly enshrined in American folklore."  

[Delmonico]

That's true, but most conversions were done on new cap and ball revolvors at the factory after the Rolin White patent expired.

Colt would not pay royalties on it, Remington would.

[Wild Billy Potts]

It's been a while since i looked this up, but I do believe that the most commonly produced (and probably sold) pistols were the Colt pocket and navy revolvers. I think both were produced until 1873, and both were factory convereted, IIRC.

[Shotgun Franklin]

I'm a Cop. I try to carry the most up to date, reliable, accurate, powerful handgun I can. For those in the late 1800s who were in a line of work where you had a big chance of being in a shooting, you were likely to carry the best you could. If you were a farmer, a working cowboy, a Livery operater or such you likely had a decent gun but not the best. I'm sure many men were killed with front loaders, little pocket sized breaktops or other less expensive guns. If I were making a movie about a famous Lawman from then I'd have him well armed, if I were telling the story of a Granger who happen to get into something then I might have him carrying a little IJ or maybe an old war issue cap'n ball.
I guess what I'm saying is 'standard issue' depends on who you happen to be and how well you thought you ought to be armed?

[Deadeye Don]

Well, if you are counting the number of guns made by Colt, then the Pocket 1849 in .31 cal would have to top the list as being the most common gun produced and sold to the general population.  It is certainly the one most likely to be carried by town people as it was easily concealed and forgotton until you needed it.

[Shotgun Franklin]

If someone would give me one I'd like a Colt '49 converted to CF.

[Digger]

Does anyone know, what did it cost to convert a precussion pistol to cartridge in the old west? 

Hi Y'all,

I remember reading somewhere it was in the $5 range.


Digger

[Shotgun Franklin]

Converting $5 in 1873 to 2008 dollars you get About $89. Affordable.
I've actually seen ads from 1870s showing a Colt SAA for $12.50. That equals $222 in 2008.
If you already own a Cap& Ball it's not a bad deal. As was pointed out, local guys did some conversions to.
I looked over one in San Antonio about 3 year ago and it was pretty good, it had started out as  a '51.