Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
CAS TOPICS => Shooter's Meeting => Topic started by: T J B on August 27, 2015, 03:46:19 PM
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Dues are now 65.00 and all the talk points to trouble ahead
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SASS is suffering from what can be a problem for us all: violation of Moelmann's Law..."When your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall!" The problem is that when you try to hold off raising dues for ten years, and then try to recover all at once, the results can create problems all their own. Going from $45 to $65 is going to create problems for some annual members operating on fixed or reduced incomes. That will result in some folks dropping out. It probably won't be fatal to SASS, but it won't do them any good in the growth department.
I will probably renew when the time comes, but it will be a decision when the time comes. I have seen non-for-profit organizations that tried to do the same thing, and in the end it was badly counterproductive. But their situation was quite different. Hoping for the best...
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TJB, I think it is throughly discussed on the SASS wire, several pinned posts.
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Gents, my 2 cents;
And affiliation used to be free. Key words "used to be", and they are past tense. Now affiliation will cost a club $100.00 per year to be a SASS affiliated club. My club is just going to LOVE hearing that!
In service,
LtCol Long
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That depends on what percentage of SASS members your CAS club has. If it is 100% the club pays NOTHING. wM1
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Raising dues to $65 per year is probably a good decision for SASS. The almost 20,000 remaining members out of 100,000+ badge numbers are probably loyal, avid CAS shooters. If SASS retains 70% or more of the 20,000 current members, their total annual dues revenue will increase.
Our club won't pay the $100 affiliation fee, but I'm thinking our executive committee would be unwilling to pay any affiliation fee.
Haole
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That depends on what percentage of SASS members your CAS club has. If it is 100% the club pays NOTHING. wM1
:o ::) wM1
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Hi
I belong to OKC Gun Club and we have a good sized group (I don't shoot with them yet). Even if we had 100 SASS members, that's only 5% of the whole club. We have about 2200 members in all.
Later
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IT IS THE PERCENTAGE OF SHOOTERS THAT SHOOT THE COWBOY SHOOTS THAT ARE MEMBERS THAT COUNT. IF YOU HAVE 20 COWBOY SHOOTERS AND THEY ARE ALL MEMBERS OF SASS THEN YOU WOULD PAY NOTHING. WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO GRAB ON THE FIRST RUMOR THEY CAN AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT, FIND OUT THE FACTS BEFORE YA LYNCH SOMEBODY. :P wM1
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As a paying member who doesn't quite see what actual benefit I get from my membership, perhaps someone can answer a couple of questions:
What benefit do I personally get from my membership?
Where do the dues go, has anyone ever seen a line item budget?
In the past, I was satisfied paying my dues because I mentally wrote it off to an overpriced, but entertaining monthly newspaper that came in the mail. Now I get a link to a pdf. That means I'm only able to read it at my computer. >:(
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Have ya tried going to a shoot? wM1
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As a paying member who doesn't quite see what actual benefit I get from my membership, perhaps someone can answer a couple of questions:
What benefit do I personally get from my membership?
Where do the dues go, has anyone ever seen a line item budget?
In the past, I was satisfied paying my dues because I mentally wrote it off to an overpriced, but entertaining monthly newspaper that came in the mail. Now I get a link to a pdf. That means I'm only able to read it at my computer. >:(
The Chronicle is going to a quarterly hard copy glossy magazine like Guns and Ammo or The Riifleman. The off months will still be digital.
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SASS is the cohesion that keeps us all together. You pay for a for profit organization attempting to carry out their mission. Affiliated clubs shoot monthly. There are special annual shoots an annual state championships. There are regional championship shoots. There is a national championship and a world championship.
There is a website for all of us to discuss all things SASS and more. The website provides a site where you can sell and buy most anything SASS and more.
The convention is a wonderful venue for the cowboys and cowgirls to show off their duds and be recognized for their work and involvement in SASS. A hundred or so vendors set up shop and show off all things new.
All clubs are invited to send a representative to the convention. This person is the club's appointed rep, the Territorial Governor. This is where we try to change things for the good.
Soon, SASS will convert to a non-profit organization and a new board of directors will be chosen/appointed from the membership. The future of SASS will rest in the hands of this BOD. Be careful of what you wish.
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SASS is the cohesion that keeps us all together. You pay for a for profit organization attempting to carry out their mission. Affiliated clubs shoot monthly. There are special annual shoots an annual state championships. There are regional championship shoots. There is a national championship and a world championship.
There is a website for all of us to discuss all things SASS and more. The website provides a site where you can sell and buy most anything SASS and more.
The convention is a wonderful venue for the cowboys and cowgirls to show off their duds and be recognized for their work and involvement in SASS. A hundred or so vendors set up shop and show off all things new.
All clubs are invited to send a representative to the convention. This person is the club's appointed rep, the Territorial Governor. This is where we try to change things for the good.
Soon, SASS will convert to a non-profit organization and a new board of directors will be chosen/appointed from the membership. The future of SASS will rest in the hands of this BOD. Be careful of what you wish.
+1 It appears to me that the attitude of the age of entitlement has spread from those on the public dole to others. wM1
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So there was a couple answers about the benefits of membership but not any about where the money goes. $65 a year is pretty high for the privilege of cohesion.
This quote was interesting: "It appears to me that the attitude of the age of entitlement has spread from those on the public dole to others."
Am I to understand correctly that to question where my dues go is to be entitled? If there are 20,000 active members, of which I am one, just how does 1.3 million dollars get spent?
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Salaries , office & business expenses, computer & network , NRA , advertising, taxes...to name a few
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You have all the right in the world to ask the question. As a legal incorporated business for profit, the Wild Bunch, principals of the corporation, can choose not to answer the question. It is a closely held corporation and does not answer to any stockholders 'cause there ain't any other than them. Actually, you are not entitled to have the question answered. None of us have that right.
Only you can determine that the annual fee is worth the amount of fun you derive from shooting in SASS affiliated events.
Red Cent
29170Life
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Red Cent,
Thanks for the answer. I did not know that SASS was a privately held 'For Profit' business. That certainly helps explains things. You are correct also, that ultimately, my vote that is taken the most seriously is the one whether I continue to choose to pay.
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It occurs to me that a lot of us would be hypocritical to complain about the price of SASS. And at the same time I am aware that the new amount to play SASS will affect a number of budgets.
When we were running up and down the eastern part of the US, the money we spent individually on food, beverage, hotels, and fuel was a bunch.
Now that I am retired, I could not keep up with yesterday.
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Folks could spend (and have) countless hours debating/arguing SASS operations. Do I like the bump- no. Will an extra $20 a year keep anybody at all from shooting?- no.
Realistically, if someone is on THAT tight a budget there's no way on the planet they can afford to shoot period. That increase equates to about $1.60 a MONTH. $.80 cents a match if you shoot 2 a month.
I was bellyaching about the increase until someone simply said, okay- don't go out to eat only one time during the year and you break even. It's amazing how much money we "blow" during 365 days. We spend how much money on guns, gear, and ammo each year?
Like everything in life, it's all about perspective. ;)
Enjoy life. Best to all.
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...I will probably renew when the time comes, but it will be a decision when the time comes. I have seen non-for-profit organizations that tried to do the same thing, and in the end it was badly counterproductive. But their situation was quite different. Hoping for the best...
I will probably not renew when the times comes, but like you it will be a decision when the time comes.
Law of supply and demand
When demand goes up, so can the price.
When demand goes Down, price goes down.
If demand goes down and the Seller raises the price, Seller will end up with a lot of unsold inventory and no business.
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As has been said it’s all about your perspective. I’m retired so don’t have a lot of money to toss around, but having said that firearms & shooting are my hobby and I enjoy them. I especially enjoy CAS and what SASS adds to that. So to me it’s well worth an extra $20 a year if that’s what it takes to keep it running. The price of everything has gone up – and likely will continue to do so.
Just my two cents worth, and as usual that’s probably over valuing my opinion. ;D
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It's worth $65.00 a year to me just for the companionship and access to the SASS Wire and Saloon.
I haven't shot in several years and may never shoot again for physical reasons, but I'll keep my guns and gear and my membership for as long as I'm alive.
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It's a little harder on us Canucks with the dollar the way it is now. My $65 US ended up as $85. Cdn. I can see where a few Canadians may drop out. For my $85 Cdn, I get membership access to the SASS forum and a SASS decal. I don't even get the e-edition of the Chronicle anymore. This is the first year in my 12 year membership to SASS that I'm actually questioning the value. A decision will be made in July 2017 when it is re-up time.
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It's worth $65.00 a year to me just for the companionship and access to the SASS Wire and Saloon.
I haven't shot in several years and may never shoot again for physical reasons, but I'll keep my gins and gear and my membership for as long as I'm alive.
Furlong; Did you say "Gins & Beer"?
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Damn drunken dyslexic keyboard! ;D
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It's worth $65.00 a year to me just for the companionship and access to the SASS Wire and Saloon.
I haven't shot in several years and may never shoot again for physical reasons, but I'll keep my guns and gear and my membership for as long as I'm alive.
Now that we can't get on the SASS wire, is it still worth it? I stay on because I go to state and regional matches otherwise I think I'd dump it! 8)
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You would miss all the happy faces, Rye. :-*
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What benefit do I personally get from my membership?
You'll find out the first time you attend a match at the State, Regional, Divisional, National or World levels and "Mossy Pop" has already signed up with a different SASS #. You are no longer you. Could also happen at your home club monthly match... If they're affiliated, they must honor SASS aliases.
Since no one else mentioned this benefit.
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I have only been a SASS member for 9 years.
I that small time frame I have seen a lot of things change .
Some good .
Some bad IMHO.
I only shoot local weekend club shoots .
I dont go to any state or SASS sanctioned shoots.
So I ask my self every year .
Is it worth being a membernof SASS ?
But so far I have continued to renew :-)
::)
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Once it went digital, I did not renew. Once I retire to Iowa, then I'll be in NCOWS country. Very few SASS clubs in a 2 hour driving range.
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Alberta Frontier Shootist Society is no longer a SASS Affiliated Club. Many members, including my self are dropping our SASS memberships as a result. There is only one SASS sanctioned shoot a year within a 4 hr drive (Saskatchewan). None of the other CAS clubs in Alberta require a SASS membership to participate. I put my $80. Cdn that would normally go to renew my SASS membership (that's what it cost to renew due to the current exchange rate) towards a Springfield Carbine in 45-70.
I put a similar post on the SASS Saloon and it was pulled immediately.
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People running a few thousand $$$ worth of guns, leather, and sundry dry goods are wallerin' around because of a double eagle bump in dues?
That comes out less than a couple of bucks a month.
Now as far as what the money goes for, if SASS wants to do right by its members it oughta let them know what the money goes for, if they ask.
But someone's gotta keep the lights on, and it's good to be able to go from one club to another and know they're playing with the same rule book.
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Attention!! Pay Attention!! Necromancer at work. This thread was DEAD. Buried and forgotten. Then was resurrected. WHY??
Anybody understand the cost of re-interning this poor dead thing??? Getting it back in the hole, cover it, get the grounds keeper to match the sod. We could be talking real money here. Let the DEAD lie says I.
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Coffinmaker, I'm hearing you complaining about some ol' sod . . .
just consider this thread an Iowa Caucus. They keep resurrecting it but aren't really sure why it exists, nor what it accomplishes.
RCJ
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Oh fer gosh and fer golly -- did all that squawkin' help with yer digestion?
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;D River City John ;D
Now that was absolutely HILARIOUS ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
TRR Sure Did (Burp) I feel much more betterer you betcha ::)
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I quit SASS years ago, but keep hearing rumors of big cutbacks in a struggling outfit. Hoped this thread might enlighten. Guess not.
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:) Hi Bill ;)
Well, if you're aware of the latest news from SASS .. Founders Ranch is going the way of the Dodo Bird. Winter Range is going DoDo. End of Trail is to move again, this time to Arizona. Consolidating the really BIG matches.
I've said in the past, regardless of what we would like to be, SASS is slowly imploding. The great masses that grew up on B Westerns, Saturday Matinees, Prime Time TV Westerns et ALL are getting old. Dropping out. There is no real infusion of youth to fill behind. The only result is a slow decline. That decline also means SASS is going Broke. Slowly, but broke none the less. It won't be long, the prime real estate in New Mexico will go on the block. Cowboy Town and All. Insufficient income to support it. Just a matter of time. The current state of affairs (Covid) didn't do us any favors either.
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I shoot almost every weekend and I see new shooters (young and old) at almost every shoot. I see families that have children just starting to shoot.
wM1
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I shoot almost every weekend and I see new shooters (young and old) at almost every shoot. I see families that have children just starting to shoot.
wM1
That's great! not what I've seen in past years though.
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Wildman1, where do you shoot? There are new shooters fairly often around here, not every match. But there are a few interested visitors watching most matches. I think we will continue to get some old farts like us who also grew up on the westerns but simply couldn't get started due to their jobs or other responsibilities, but once they retire they can start playing.
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This year not as much as usual. So far from Ohio to Texas and Alabama and Tennessee to Idaho and in between.
wM1
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Unfortunately, Collectively, we are NOT getting enough influx of new shooters to keep the Game at it's current levels. Just ain't gonna happen. Boo Hisssssssss
Hide and Watch
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I work part time at our county shooting range in La Luz, NM, once a bright spot for SASS along with Ruidoso. This is the heart of Billy the Kid country. I see five, six or seven show up for the monthly match. Less than five and they quietly put all the stuff back in the conex box. The boys and girls are tired. They gave up on SASS affiliation some time back. I can only tell what I see.
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My home state use to be a hotbed of CAS activity. I was able to shoot every weekend and not have to drive more than an hour at most. CAS clubs everywhere. Now I only get one match a month. for the other match, I have to go out of state.
CAS clubs have dried up and blown away just like Fall Leaves.
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Well I suppose we're lucky in central Texas, I can still shoot every weekend, and sometimes Sundays as well. Closest is 30 miles, furthest 105. Plus no shutting down for winter.
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We usually have a choice of 2 sometimes 4 different clubs to shoot at every weekend. One range we frequent has 2 clubs and we now can shoot there every weekend although two of the shoots are WB.
wM1
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A look at SASS Affiliated Clubs in Florida, reveal's if one wanted to, they could shoot every weekend, both days somewhere.
Granted travel would be involved some 200+ miles.
I used to shoot with the Weewahootee Vigilance Committee (25 miles north)
and Okeechobee Marshals (about 60 miles south ) but that was a decade ago.
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Do I pay another $65 to remain a dues paying SASS member? Or because I rarely go to State or above match in the past save the $65?
EoT this year is $250 plus another $50 for a bit of grass to park my Rv on. That's $300 plus $65 for the privilege?
I came up with a third option. Since I'm retired I would like to go to neighboring State matches and Guns of August again. So I paid to become a SASS life member instead. Money saved by skipping 2010 EoT was used towards the life membership cost. Perhaps the influx of my life membership money will keep SASS viable for another year?
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Good for you Matthew. Other state's matches are too far from central Texas :) . I live with my 96 year old mom and can't stray too far. But some day I'll do a lot more travelling to big matches.
So here we are one week into February and I've already shot 8 matches this year! I thought I'd have enough ammo for the year, but not at this rate, so I better slow down a bit.
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EOT 2022 is over, think folks had a good time. The AZ Rangers worked really hard to set it up, operate, tear down and store everything. Working on next years EOT has began in the minds of the Rough Riders hoping to make EOT even better next year. Thanks to all who worked it and even more thanks to the shooters.
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EOT 2022 is over, think folks had a good time. The AZ Rangers worked really hard to set it up, operate, tear down and store everything. Working on next years EOT has began in the minds of the Rough Riders hoping to make EOT even better next year. Thanks to all who worked it and even more thanks to the shooters.
Isn't it the same crew who have been putting on Winter Range for years? They are very good at it.
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Some Rangers retire every year but we have an influx of new folks every year also.
wM1
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I’m still on the fence on my renewal this year. Became a member in ‘96 but I haven’t been to a state or regional in maybe 12-15 years. I had been renewing just to support the organization as my gal and I have had a lot of good times at sass events. Still shooting cas and having fun with zsa, trying to do a couple shoots a month. Playing with my old guns and more modern guns. I was the only shooter out of 44 at the last zsa match shooting a .45. Shot it clean [approx 96 rounds] and came in exactly in the middle. Shooting anything is fun.
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I bought the SASS Life membership when SASS offered it in 4 payment installments. I've had the time of my life participating in CAS/SASS and because of this game/sport I have made quite a few friends and developed great friendships over the years. I was happy to pay the cost of the gold badge and wear it proudly at every match. I am young enough the life membership up front cost will save me in the long run. I don't get to shoot as often as I'd like for all of life's reasons. My wife also has a SASS membership although she has only shot ONE monthly in her entire life. Her alias is too good to give up and she does plan on getting more into this when the kids are out and on their own. Because of what SASS has done over the years I get a chance to fun like no where else so the cost membership is not an issue. The real costs have been buying all this cowboy stuff, traveling, lodging, etc. Membership fee in SASS is the last cost I'd ever worry about.
Hopefully upon retirement we move to Texas By God and I do get to shoot and compete every weekend. ;)
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I bought the SASS Life membership when SASS offered it in 4 payment installments. I've had the time of my life participating in CAS/SASS and because of this game/sport I have made quite a few friends and developed great friendships over the years. I was happy to pay the cost of the gold badge and wear it proudly at every match. I am young enough the life membership up front cost will save me in the long run. I don't get to shoot as often as I'd like for all of life's reasons. My wife also has a SASS membership although she has only shot ONE monthly in her entire life. Her alias is too good to give up and she does plan on getting more into this when the kids are out and on their own. Because of what SASS has done over the years I get a chance to fun like no where else so the cost membership is not an issue. The real costs have been buying all this cowboy stuff, traveling, lodging, etc. Membership fee in SASS is the last cost I'd ever worry about.
Hopefully upon retirement we move to Texas By God and I do get to shoot and compete every weekend. ;)
I hope at that time you will have primers, powder, and lead.
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Gents, my 2 cents;
And affiliation used to be free. Key words "used to be", and they are past tense. Now affiliation will cost a club $100.00 per year to be a SASS affiliated club. My club is just going to LOVE hearing that!
In service,
LtCol Long
That is why our club dropped out.
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We voted ourselves out when the Rulebook dustup occurred eons ago but became a WASA club. Best of both worlds.