Author Topic: 180 Grain 45  (Read 665 times)

Offline Rube Burrows

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180 Grain 45
« on: July 30, 2021, 09:54:49 PM »
I recently won a box of bullets (Thanks Coyote Mercantile).  I normally shoot 200g RNFP but all he had in stock in 45 was 180g bullets. won’t complain about free bullets and it’s a chance to try something new. Also first time trying trying powder coated bullets.

I have a new (to me) pair of 1871-72 Open Tops coming with 5.5” barrels so I figured I’d try a load for these.

On hand I have Trailboss, Unique and Bullyeye.

Anyone load for a 180g 45 bullet on here? If so what kind of loads are you liking ?

Thanks in advance 
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2021, 10:10:18 PM »
Greetings my good Monsieur Burrows

What brass you do have at hand for this endeavour? .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, or the shorty .45 Cowboy?
Since you use smokeless, I myself am preferring to use .45 CB and use existing recipes for Unique in .45 ACP since they are the same case volume and use similar if not identical lead bullets.

The recipes for unique and 185 grain lead semiwad target loads would be ideal in this case.
Please stand by whilst iget my books and notes...

I have been trying to use thecavernous .45 Colt case for  BP or subs only, and .45 Schofiled and .45 Cowboy brass for smokeless. It helps  keep them separated and easier to ID as my eyes age...

The only reason for Schofiield in my mind is that they cycle in my yellowboy without modification of the rifle.

I fully expect others to chime in before I can find my books,

Yhs
Prof marvel





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Offline Rube Burrows

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2021, 10:22:30 PM »
Greetings my good Monsieur Burrows

What brass you do have at hand for this endeavour? .45 Colt, .45 Schofield, or the shorty .45 Cowboy?
Since you use smokeless, I myself am preferring to use .45 CB and use existing recipes for Unique in .45 ACP since they are the same case volume and use similar if not identical lead bullets.

The recipes for unique and 185 grain lead semiwad target loads would be ideal in this case.
Please stand by whilst iget my books and notes...

I have been trying to use thecavernous .45 Colt case for  BP or subs only, and .45 Schofiled and .45 Cowboy brass for smokeless. It helps  keep them separated and easier to ID as my eyes age...

The only reason for Schofiield in my mind is that they cycle in my yellowboy without modification of the rifle.

I fully expect others to chime in before I can find my books,

Yhs
Prof marvel





For Scho

So far I have always used the 45 Colt cases. I have starling brass mostly but have not tried the Schofield or the Cowboy cases but that’s something to look into also I suppose. I was not sure of an advantage of going with the shorter cases. It’s just not something that I have researched much at this point. Guess I need to.
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Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2021, 02:26:42 AM »
So far I have always used the 45 Colt cases. I have starling brass mostly but have not tried the Schofield or the Cowboy cases but that’s something to look into also I suppose. I was not sure of an advantage of going with the shorter cases. It’s just not something that I have researched much at this point. Guess I need to.

Well not really necessary. Being a die-hard fan of Unique, I guess I go out of my way to try to safely use it and those little 8-9 grain charges just rattle around in that huge case!

But wait! in the 2nd edition of the Lee book, dated ~ 2013, they have just the ticket for you!

180 gr lead bullet
trail boss
starting 6.0 grains  (lee dipper 1.30) for 818 fps
"never exceed" 7.3 grains for 935 fps, 12,700 psi

they DO NOT have a recipe for that bullet for unique or bullseye.
later I will dig out my ancient Lee book from 197x but things have changed so much I do not recommend the old
recipes to folks.

My 49th edition Lyman book only has recipes for 185 gr jacketed, which is sufficiently different from lead as to make one take pause and think. for example for a .45 Colt 200gr jacketed vs 200 gr lead they call for the following using Unique:

200 gr jacketed, Unique
start 8.5 gr for 847 fps     
max 9,5 gr for 934 fps   no pressure data.

200 gr lead, Unique
start 8.6 gr for 918 fps 8,700 cup
max 9.6 gr for 1083 fps 12,800 cup

we surmise that , as a rule of thumb, lead bullets can give "a tish" more velocity than jacket with less pressure, to a point.
I think, but cannot prove, that this is due to the entire jacket area acting as a bearing surface , vs two driving bands in a lead bullet.

for example using universal powder an 250 gr bullets, lee shows
250 gr lead bullet with universal powder
max 7.8 gr  for 941 fps  13,000 cup

250 gr jacketed xtp bullet with universal powder
max 8.5 gr for 856 fps   14,000 cup

they have no recipe for 180 or 185 gr bullets with Trailboss or Bullseye, so no way to try to extrapolate.

Thus I would suggest you try trailboss! it is nice and fluffy, and is a good smokeless powder for modern guns!
Fluffy is good in big cases, but might meter funny.

hope this helps
prof marvel
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Offline Rube Burrows

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2021, 08:03:15 AM »
Well not really necessary. Being a die-hard fan of Unique, I guess I go out of my way to try to safely use it and those little 8-9 grain charges just rattle around in that huge case!

But wait! in the 2nd edition of the Lee book, dated ~ 2013, they have just the ticket for you!

180 gr lead bullet
trail boss
starting 6.0 grains  (lee dipper 1.30) for 818 fps
"never exceed" 7.3 grains for 935 fps, 12,700 psi

they DO NOT have a recipe for that bullet for unique or bullseye.
later I will dig out my ancient Lee book from 197x but things have changed so much I do not recommend the old
recipes to folks.

My 49th edition Lyman book only has recipes for 185 gr jacketed, which is sufficiently different from lead as to make one take pause and think. for example for a .45 Colt 200gr jacketed vs 200 gr lead they call for the following using Unique:

200 gr jacketed, Unique
start 8.5 gr for 847 fps     
max 9,5 gr for 934 fps   no pressure data.

200 gr lead, Unique
start 8.6 gr for 918 fps 8,700 cup
max 9.6 gr for 1083 fps 12,800 cup

we surmise that , as a rule of thumb, lead bullets can give "a tish" more velocity than jacket with less pressure, to a point.
I think, but cannot prove, that this is due to the entire jacket area acting as a bearing surface , vs two driving bands in a lead bullet.

for example using universal powder an 250 gr bullets, lee shows
250 gr lead bullet with universal powder
max 7.8 gr  for 941 fps  13,000 cup

250 gr jacketed xtp bullet with universal powder
max 8.5 gr for 856 fps   14,000 cup

they have no recipe for 180 or 185 gr bullets with Trailboss or Bullseye, so no way to try to extrapolate.

Thus I would suggest you try trailboss! it is nice and fluffy, and is a good smokeless powder for modern guns!
Fluffy is good in big cases, but might meter funny.

hope this helps
prof marvel

All of that makes perfect sense. I really like Trailboss and have had no real problems getting it to throw consistent charges in my RCBS Uniflow Measure.

None of my books show anything for a 180 grain lead bullet. That is why I thought I would ask around here.

Thank you.


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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #5 on: Today at 07:00:05 AM »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2021, 08:19:13 AM »

 :)  HEY RUBE!  :D

I two have suggestions.  However, mine are probably not applicable to your specific circumstances (snicker snicker).  My suggestion would be Cowboy 45 Special cases, 3F APP to the bullet base and a nice snug crimp.

Of course, you would have to invest in cases, loading dies and APP to do dat.  Funnest pistol cartridge onna plannet though.

The Very FIRST thing you do with those Brandy Knew-Two-Ewe Open Tops, is fix the ABYSMAL Barrel to Arbor fit.

People are still Hazardous to yer Health!!

Offline Rube Burrows

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2021, 08:41:33 AM »
:)  HEY RUBE!  :D

I two have suggestions.  However, mine are probably not applicable to your specific circumstances (snicker snicker).  My suggestion would be Cowboy 45 Special cases, 3F APP to the bullet base and a nice snug crimp.

Of course, you would have to invest in cases, loading dies and APP to do dat.  Funnest pistol cartridge onna plannet though.

The Very FIRST thing you do with those Brandy Knew-Two-Ewe Open Tops, is fix the ABYSMAL Barrel to Arbor fit.

People are still Hazardous to yer Health!!

I will def. be checking out the Barrel to Arbor fitment.
On the Cowboy 45 Special loads......you have to buy special dies for that? Also, when you say APP, are you talking about American Pioneer Powder or what? Forgive my ignorance on that.  ;D I guess I will spend the morning researching more on those loads. Seems to be getting pretty popular.

The 45 Colt is def. my favorite to load for.
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Offline Abilene

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2021, 03:32:13 PM »
There are various threads on die choice for loading the short 45 Cowboy. 

Yes, APP is American Pioneer Powder.

I've never loaded 180gr in .45 so no help there.  My .45 Colt pistol load is 200gr with Hodgdon's minimum of Clays.  Very pleasant, cases stay quite clean, and fall out of the cylinder at loading table.  I'm tempted to get some 180's to try in the .45's.  I have plenty of Schofield brass if I feel a need to go shorter.

Offline Rube Burrows

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2021, 05:42:55 PM »
There are various threads on die choice for loading the short 45 Cowboy. 

Yes, APP is American Pioneer Powder.

I've never loaded 180gr in .45 so no help there.  My .45 Colt pistol load is 200gr with Hodgdon's minimum of Clays.  Very pleasant, cases stay quite clean, and fall out of the cylinder at loading table.  I'm tempted to get some 180's to try in the .45's.  I have plenty of Schofield brass if I feel a need to go shorter.

I spent the early morning doing some reading and watching videos on the 45 Cowboy loads. If I can locate me some brass I will give it a try. Seems like a good 45 load for the Cowboy shooting. I don’t have any hands on experience yet but I know much more about the subject now than I did yesterday. Thanks everyone for the heads up.

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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2021, 07:32:32 PM »

 :)  HO Kay Rube   ;)

Yes.  APP is "American Pioneer Powder."  Great Stuff.  Easy to clean.  Shoot any bullet - ie;  Smokeless Lube, Black Powder Lube, NO LUBE.  Makes it own lube.  My choice for handguns is the "Barnstormer" bullet.  Monstrous thing.  Weighs 130Gr.  the C45S was originally developed by a friend of mine Adirondack Jack at the same time I was developing the 45 Squirt.  We communed alot.   

My personal choice of bullet for the Rifle is 160Gr.  For a Toggle Link rifle you need a special carrier block.  For "other" rifles, ye be out of luck.  No Bueno.

Be very suspect of what you read by "others" about loading the C45S.  Way to many folks try and say you can load it with plain 45 ACP dies.  NO.  You use a standard 45 Colt shell holder with a standard 45 Colt re-size/De-cap die.  DO NOT use a 45 ACP resize die as it imparts a slight taper to the case a results in Blow-By. Standard 45 Colt thru powder/bell die just adjusted down.  Standard 45 ACP seating die.  I personally like a Redding 45 Auto Rim crimp die for a nice tight Roll Crimp.  An ACP taper crimp is NO BUENO.

the C45S coupled with the Barnstormer, developed to put the .45 on competitive par with the .38 "go fast boys."  It does that really well.  The reduced case volume gives a really nice burn with reduced charges.  Also a superb BP/BP Sub case.  Try it.  Yule like it.

Stupid People are Still Hazardous to your Health


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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #10 on: Today at 07:00:05 AM »

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2021, 07:44:58 PM »

Be very suspect of what you read by "others" about loading the C45S. 
Way to many folks try and say you can load it with plain 45 ACP dies. 

NO. 

You use a standard 45 Colt shell holder with a standard 45 Colt re-size/De-cap die.
 DO NOT use a 45 ACP resize die as it imparts a slight taper to the case a results in Blow-By.

Standard 45 Colt thru powder/bell die just adjusted down.
 Standard 45 ACP seating die.  I personally like a Redding 45 Auto Rim crimp die for a nice tight Roll Crimp.  An ACP taper crimp is NO BUENO.

the C45S coupled with the Barnstormer, developed to put the .45 on competitive par with the .38 "go fast boys."  It does that really well.  The reduced case volume gives a really nice burn with reduced charges.  Also a superb BP/BP Sub case.  Try it.  Yule like it.

Stupid People are Still Hazardous to your Health

I concurr and amplify all the above!
One must play the mix and match methos of loading dies per Coffin's explanatory above!

and yes, Stoopid People are hazardous. Just ask my insuarance agent!
OMG the humanity! the wrecked cars.... I want my 1955 Dodge Power Wagon back...

yhs
prof mumbles
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Offline Rube Burrows

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2021, 11:38:52 PM »
Luckily there are lots of smart people here to lean on but I like to do lots of my own research also. I can mix match the dies with no problem. I have a couple sets of 45 Colt and I’ll pick up a 45 Auto for the crimp. Hopefully Starline will have some brass in stock soon.
 
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Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2021, 10:07:10 AM »

 :)  HEY RUBE !!  ;D

Be sure to specify the 45 AUTO RIM die.  45 ACP die NO BUENO.

Perfesser:  I've often thought a nice '53 Buick Roadmaster to be the ticket.  Belt them rude and crude idiots into the next dimension   ;D

Stupid People are still Hazardous to yer Health

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: 180 Grain 45
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2021, 03:33:31 PM »
:)  HEY RUBE !!  ;D

Be sure to specify the 45 AUTO RIM die.  45 ACP die NO BUENO.

Perfesser:  I've often thought a nice '53 Buick Roadmaster to be the ticket.  Belt them rude and crude idiots into the next dimension   ;D

Stupid People are still Hazardous to yer Health

If one has the appropriate ancient .45 ACP die set, the older ( Herters?) set like I have seemed
to come with a crimp die that made a slight roll crimp. Back in 1975 I had to go out and buy  a separate
.45 ACP taper crimp die to work properly in my 1911. go figure..
but it all worked out since the original is so close to being a roll crimp it works fine for me for .45 CB.

Of course in these modern times what Coffin said will hold true!
PLus, well .... Herters... so ...

yhs
prof marvel
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