Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L
Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Barracks => Topic started by: cpt dan blodgett on March 06, 2018, 07:08:48 PM
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My 88 Trapdoor groups like rat shit in a dresser drawer. Thinking I need to de-lead the barrel. Plan on using MPro 7 and Big 45 Frontier Lead remover which is kind of like a chore boy with some kind of allow that is supposed to scrape the lead but not hurt the steel. Any of you ever used that stuff or have a good way to get the lead out of an old war horse.
Once I have the bore clean plan to try desparado bullets soft .405 flat base and some .458 and .460 hollow base with olde eynesford and shuetzen 1.5 and 2 F to see If I can find a decent shooting load.
Will also work on loads for my Armi Sports Sharps and Navy Arms rolling block. Lee Shaffer did his magic and the Rolling block has a nice approx 2 lb trigger
Look forward to benefiting from you collective wisdom
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Yep. Clean clean clean and clean some more. You don't want to know how long it took to decopper my first Krag! Your sights should be regulated for a 500 grain round nose at 1300 fps or so.
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Only took me about a week to get a new barrel from CMP and a couple of months to get rifle back from Gun Smith on my Krag that would not put 2 rounds in a row into a 16 inch square at 25 yards. Afterward 3 rounds of same bullet and load under a quarter at 50
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Wrap some Chore Boy pot scrubber (it's copper) around a worn out cleaning brush. It will do an amazing job on getting lead out. Kroil penetrating oil helps, too. Seems to get under everything in that bore.
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Just rebarreled a Krag action myself, with one of the 30" Criterion barrels. Shoots wonderful groups, but I need to get the front sight reset.
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Dan, for getting lead out of barrels I have had good success with Montana Extreme Cowboy Blend. E-mail or call me and I'll get some to you.
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Thanks Sage Brush, need to make a Costco run so will pick some up at Sportsman's right next door
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Not sure there was ever much in the way of lead in the barrel. There was evidence of Copper fouling. Got the Big 45 Frontier lead remover think of it as an alloy choreboy that is supposed to scrape way lead and rust but not hurt the bore or hot bluing. Scrubbed the bore have no more evidence of copper being removed by various solvents. I do think I have managed to scrape some of 120 years years worth of rust out of the bore. Patches coming out clean for now but pretty sure I can get some more black next time I get busy cleaning the beast. Last thing put down the bore was some Montana Extreme Bore Conditioner. This stuff is supposed to bind with the metal and help keep fouling from adhering to the metal of the bore. We shall see. Hope I can hit the range wednesday after loading some ammo tomorrow and Monday. Will try both cavalry and infantry loads
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Easiest way to get the lead out is to soak a flannel patch with pure gum spirits of turpentine, run it back and forth thru the bore on a jag a few times let it sit for a few moments, then follow with a dry flannel patch, repeat until you quit getting silver patches when you do the dry.
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Dang, Mine gets durty pretty quickly. I shot 19 rounds of 200 grain lead with Trail boss and finally got on the paper. I never did work out where the dozen 220 grain Hornady Jacketed rounds were going. I had the targets out at 75 years, I guess I was being a hair optimistic. I cleaned and cleaned and FINALLY I got to where the third patch would come out clean. Then I found out that if I ran a bronze brush through again, it the patches would come out black again. No copper blue shows up at all. This Carbine is within the serial numbers for being an ammunition test rifle. I thought that the army used jacketed ammunition then. Guess not.
The magazine doesn't feed for some reason, guess I'm reading from the Krag book and taking the Krag apart again. Yes I DID check the mag cutoff....
Later
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You probably have a century's worth of layered fouling in there. I'd scrub mine till the patch's came out clean, then soak in solvent overnight, run a brush thru, then have another bunch of black/blue/brown patch's. It took weeks to get down to bare metal. And then you can figure out what will shoot in it. Might have to try some .311s in it before you're done. The foam solvents work really well I've found.
Make sure you've got good OAL, Krags like 'em long. Longer than 2.8", 3.0' even better. Remember too, there were two types of magazine cut offs, they work exactly opposite of each other. Be sure of the one you have, sometimes they seem to migrate to the wrong rifle!
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Hi
My rounds are really close to 3 inches. 200 grain lead and 220 gain jacketed. I'm not sure why it won't feed. I might need to waist 5 brass and make dummies to work it out. Supposed to be a hurricane here tomorrow or I'd go out again with posterboard to work out where the rounds went. I did get the lead on target, but the groups were pretty bad.
The Muzzle end of the magazine spring wasn't resting whee it was supposed to. Now the follower etc works, but the magazine is DAMN hard to open.
Later
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Drydock you are so right let some solvent stay in barrel for awhile and patches are black or grey again. Bore shines a lot with reflected sunlight but cannot really tell if the blotches are pits or bumps of fouling. May end up scrubbing till 2 weeks before the Muster before I can shot the damn thing
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Actually got a few lead flecks out yesterday and today. Such a slow process left wipeout in the barrel overnight. Even tried the turpentine trick yesterday and this AM with no clear results.
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You might give consideration to the Outer's Foul-Out system (assuming they're still available). It is an electro-chemical process that really gets after deep/tough fouling. It can take several days in some cases, but it gets lead or copper fouling out more thoroughly than anything else I have ever used. Mine is in Colorado but I can bring it to the Grand Muster or mail it to you if you're still working on the problem.
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The bore is starting to look a lot better some of what I did not know if it was pitting or bumps of fouling are gone so must have been fouling. Have been doing the soak with what ever bore cleaner a while brush nylon if a copper solvent or bronze brush if not run patchs till clean soak brush patch repeat most of the day. Leaving Wipeout in bore overnight stoppered at muzzle and chamber. Have even done a bunch of brushing with worn brush wrapped with the Big 45 frontier rust remover allow choreboy like stuff.
Tomorrow may run some JB bore paste thru for a while
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Hi, I used some Hoppe's 9 copper solvent black and I got black then black n blue patches out. I put in Ballistol overnight. I'll repeat a few more times and go shoot more. I believe I have a few pits on the bottom of the bore close to the breech. Is using a sequence of G. David Tubbs Final Finish (sandpaper bullets) a great idea, a maybe or the dumbest idea ever? It helped the new Chiappa Sharps I think.
Later
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I don't think I would use abrasive bullets. JB is probably as aggressive as I would want to go on an old warhorse unless the intent is to get a new barrel if you can't make the old one shoot; you may want to slug the barrel to see if it needs larger bullets. With the right cast bullets and gas checks you can get a 210 or 215 grain lead bullet fly as fast as the jacketed 220 round nose
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Well may be near shootable condition 15 tight scrubs with bronze wool and the alloy choreboy like thing with you name the solvent now produces a pretty light gray patch afterward that comes out clean with one or two more patches and solvent. Turpentine really did not result in any noticeable lead removed. Yesterday the same 15 scrubs with the bronze wool wrapped brush made some pretty black patchs.
Think there is any utility in running a couple of jacketed rounds thru it and cleaning again prior to shooting lead or it a pay your money take your chances kind of thing that I should see how it shoots now?
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Odd that the turpentine soaked patches didn't pull any lead. This is what they were looking like when I began scrubbing on an original borchardt with a "pitted" bore looked like.
[img]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/0402171716_zpsebaxeemp.jpg[img]
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I was looking for silvery flakes like turpentine pulled out of my Armi Spots sharps
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Don't know for sure, but i read on cast bullits forum that automatic transmission fluid makes a good bore cleaner. Swab it in good and wet, let it sit overnite, then a real tight mop with the chore boy wrapped around it.
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The turpentine certainly seems to pull more black stuff out of the bore after I wet scrub it hard with the bronze wool wound bronze brush than other commercial bore cleaning products
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The turpentine certainly seems to pull more black stuff out of the bore after I wet scrub it hard with the bronze wool wound bronze brush than other commercial bore cleaning products
After cleaning an old 45/60 barrel a few months back with Gum Turpentine and a bronze brush , my patch's came out white, bore still looked like it had something in there or it was just rough . Shot 25 Barmes Original's @ 458 jacketed bullet's with light smokeless loads through it . After cleaning the bore it sure looked smoother afterward . Cleans up fast now and shoots lead bullets loaded with BP. PRETTY GOOD now . Good luck. ,,,,DT
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I've been working on a load for my Krag scout rifle and really hadn't shot it much until now. But yesterday I had a couple of fliers where it had been grouping well at 30 yds. I hit the bore this morning alternating between Hoppes 9 and JB and got my groups back but plan on scrubbing some more tonight until I can get a clean patch. It didn't look that bad but the black patches say different.