Since I already voted, it won't let me vote again for brass shells.  But I also don't use them very often these days, partially because they slow me down on loading into the SxS (no crimp), and they don't always eject as well.  I know some of that is the old Rem-UMC hulls needing to be annealed, because even though they go in round, the mouth is a bit out of round after firing.  However, Mako (with one dorsal) I have not had any problems with lack of oomph out of my brass loads.

But I do still like shooting the all brass at times.  My reloading has been split between two locations with limited time for a while now, but that is changing as I get things consolidated and moved over the next year, so hopefully will get some more brass loading done.  I've also got a lot of Alcan brass hulls, which are thicker than the REM-UMC / Winchester / Magtech but not as thick as RMC.  They use a Remington 57-style primer (I think that's it) that looks like a 209 but is smaller.  Fortunately I have a couple thousand of those.  One problem I have with those is that a lot of them 2.5" but some are different lengths up to about 2.75".  When firing them, I have to pay attention that I'm shooting the longest ones first, followed by shorter, or they will stick in the chamber from prior fouling.  They need to be all trimmed to 2.5" but I have no way to do that.

Mako, yes the RMC hulls are the machined ones with the same internal dimensions as a plastic hull and use 209's. They're still around, last I looked those were about $8 each.  I have a half dozen of them but don't use them much any more because the primer pockets are so tight that priming and depriming are both very difficult.

Yep.  Found what I needed.

So there has been very little discussion on this "Shotgun" forum about '97's, especially Chinese '97's.  So here goes.

I did not own a '97 and had no desire for one.  To me it wasn't "cowboy", although I did enjoy seeing a skilled person run one.  But then I decided to get into Wild Bunch and needed one, so in 2013 when I was still part-timing with Cimarron I bought one of their TTN-made '97's.  Some of these guns had problems and they don't have a good reputation.  But I was able to hand-pick and run dummies through a gun from the "scratch and dent" shelf (very minor blueing issue) and got it for about $300.  It was a little stiff but worked fine and never gave me any problems.  I didn't shoot it much but tried it for CAS and found that it was "fun".  Later picked up a 30" solid-frame from 1911 in very good condition and started using it.  Then a 24" take-down from 1911, which I had cut to 20".  I was still only shooting them occasionally.  But the '97 guys always say (only half-joking) that you need 3 - the one you are shooting, the one that is at the gunsmith, and I forget what the third was for  .  But I had my three.

Then in 2021 I ran across a New in the box IAC "Cowboy" model for $300!!  This would go for over $1K on the SASS Wire.  Deal of the century! The Cowboy was the latest and greatest of the Chinese '97's, with a "CB" serial number prefix.  I got it from a gunsmith/dealer who was having health problems and was retiring.  He obviously did not know the worth of it.  These guns have some innovations that make them much smoother than previous guns, and need no action work.  Well, that's not entirely true.  Originally there were contracted to be 450 of these guns made.  But later, the factory made another 5 or 6 hundred with the leftover parts.  Mine, being s/n CB0009xx was one of those.  Same smoothness, but they mixed CNC and non-CNC parts so the ejection is not nearly as forceful as the "good" ones.  Outlaw Gambler says he can fix that up for me, but since the ejection is satisfactory for now I'm using it, plus I don't like to ship guns.  This thing is so smooth I started shooting it in CAS matches, and found out that I really, really like slam-firing!  It is just so satisfying.   

Now, I've done very little practice with it, and so I'm no faster, sometimes slower, than with my SxS.  My hands are small so "grabbing 4" is not an option.  I have tried some various techniques.  I can do one in the right hand and 3 in the left, dropping the one into the port before picking it up, but often not very smooth with loading the 3 over the top.  2 over the top is smoother, but you have to go to the belt again.  I can load faster with two in the right hand, but my left wrist is too weak to pick up the  shotgun to get it quickly into position.  So sometimes I'm loading two over the top and then two from the right.  I do fumble a fair amount - need more practice!  But then there is that satisfying slam firing.  I've gotten to where I don't miss much.  So lately I'm shooting about 50/50 '97 and SxS.  Obviously SxS when I shoot BP. 

And then last week - - get an email from local club that an old-time shooter, Blue Thorn, who hasn't shot in years, is selling his stuff.  So I bought his IAC Norinco with Coyote Cap full race action job for $700.  This thing has had very little use and is in excellent condition.  I also sold my TTN '97 for $350 the same weekend to a local shooter who plans to use it for home defense.  After I got it home and compared it to the IAC Cowboy model, they feel just about the same.  The CC (Coyote Cap) gun is possibly a hair slicker.  But I also noticed that the CC gun has had the buttstock cut and a decelerator pad installed, and it is 1 5/8" shorter than the CB model.  It shouldered fine and I ran some dummies through it fine before comparing it to the other and noticing the shorter stock.  I have long arms and usually don't like cut stocks, but this seems okay.  Interestingly, the barrel is also 3/8" shorter than the CB model, which came out years later. 

So now I'm chomping to go try it out, hopefully at the match this weekend, but rain chances are not looking too good.  This club will shoot anyway, as they have some buildings to shoot from, but my guncart is not weather protected.  Perhaps I'll work out of a saddlebag this time.  Anyways, enough talk, here's the new Chinchester by itself, the left side of the bolt where Coyote Cap signed it, and then with the CB model.

The link works for me on both laptop and Android phone.

yeah i got it to work, just got impatient. my bad

Does anybody know what the throats would be on a .45 ACP cylinder?

The reason I ask is because my 3rd Gen Colt's regular .45 Colt cylinder has .455 - .456" diameter throats.  If the .45 ACP has .451 - .452" throats I bet the Cowboy Special could be a tack driver.

Lonesome and the rest,
I have been cooling my heels and perusing files on my computer and posts from over a decade on this site, I found my information on the Gen 1 Colt I have.




I don't remember the topic anymore it might have been a discussion about Conversion Cylinder dimensions, but I was measuring bores and cylinders.  That cylinder will pass a Ø.455+ gauge pin but not a .456.  The grove diameter is definitely Ø.454 as measured on those two balls, the land diameter would accept a Ø.442- pin all of the way through, but the Ø.442+ pin was tight and stuck after about 1 inch.

That's my revolver, it is a "family gun".  It was made in 1896 and is not marked as a Smokeless "approved" frame.  1896 was the "transition" year. However, it does have the push button cylinder pin release.  I have heard arguments and read a couple of books considered to be the authority on SSAs that the buttons started to replace the screws as early as 1892 and was phased in as Colt's had their frames already set up one way or another.

So, I guess my point is that the older Colts used to be relatively tight in the throats considering they used Ø.454 bullets.  It seems the modern revolvers S&W and Colt's actually often have looser throats compared to the original revolver it was chambered in when you considering the bullets were Ø.454 back then.    A Ø.455 throat to a Ø.454 bore is about as perfect as you could ask for.

~Mako