Cas City Forum Hall & CAS-L

Special Interests - Groups & Societies => The Winchester Model 1886 => Topic started by: Niederlander on March 01, 2017, 05:51:51 AM

Title: Why the 1886?
Post by: Niederlander on March 01, 2017, 05:51:51 AM
Why is there such a fascination with the 1886 Winchester?  Don't get me wrong, I love the heavy ol' beast myself!  Just wondering why others like them as much as I do.  You don't see them in movies, they're big, and they're heavy, but it's probably my favorite lever action rifle.  (Mine is a round barrel .45-70.)  I love the bank vault action, the accuracy, the power, pretty much everything.  What say you guys?
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: King Medallion on March 01, 2017, 09:14:17 AM
I think they just look cool, especially the old worn surfaced ones, with battle scarred wood. Mine is a Browning SRC, that I cut the stock flat and added a couple inches of pull. Glad to see this new 1886 section
(https://im1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/010046471428/media/52449869684/small/1484060518/enhance)
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Isom on March 01, 2017, 01:47:24 PM
I think the basic draw to the '86 is that it's a lever action ,,,, it's a big bore,,, and it's a "Winchester". It is heavy, but, if you're running it hot it does soak up recoil. I bought one, 45-70 in the mid-late 80's, kind of used pretty good. Fun gun. Bought another one in 38-56. Great prices. Shot it for fun, the 45-70,,  decided to clean it up a bit. It had the prettiest piece of wood for the stock that someone cut about 1 1/2" off to put a butt-ugly, red buttpad on it. The fore arm looked like a piece of whittiled pine. I had it rebarreled, blued, I did the wood, it came out respectable. Late 90's joined SASS found out about letters from Win., Colt & S&W etc. So , got a letter, found out it left the factory as a 40-65. No I didn't change it, it'll die a 45-70. The 38-56 looks well worn, but it's staying as is.
Isom
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Gabriel Law on March 01, 2017, 01:50:17 PM
Why indeed?  The Winchester 86 is such a great rifle.  I like the weight and the tank action.  Mine is a Browning - new to me this past year.  I have restocked it in nicer wood with a shotgun butt and chequering.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/CAS/100_6851_zpstnvmiwvk.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/CAS/100_6851_zpstnvmiwvk.jpg.html)

I too am delighted to see this new forum.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Jubal Starbuck on March 02, 2017, 09:03:13 AM
     What's not to like about the 1886?  Mine is an octagon barrelled rifle in .40-65 caliber, made in 1889.  It needed some tlc when I got it; the bore was bad, the lever was bent, and the hammer had one of the notches broken off.  I had Craig Rittenhouse in PA reline it  for me and I couldn't be happier with the results.  I found a new hammer in a gunshop in Maine and bent the lever back into spec, replaced a few missing parts and the old girl was ready to bark.  I found a set of Lyman mold blocks and cast up some 245 grain bullets, sized 'em to .406" and lubed them with SPG.  I ran some .45-70 cases through my  .40-65 sizing die and loaded 'em up.  I like Swiss 1.5fg for a propellant.  A tang sight gets me hits on steel out to 250 yds.  Haven't had oppoortunity to shoot further, but I'm happy with that.  Original barrel sights work well to 100 yds.; after that I use the tang sight.  I've also shot some loads with 5744  as a propellant with good results, but I lean toward the dark side for the most part.

     Regards,


     Jubal Starbuck
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Trailrider on March 02, 2017, 10:29:54 AM
I can't recall if I read the book, "John Moses Browning - American Gun Maker" before or after the first time I ran across a M1886 Winchester in (believe it or not) a San Francisco gun shop in the summer of 1962. The gun was interesting, and the action so smooth that I couldn't help but buy it (with about all the wages earned on a summer job)! It was in .45-90, and there were no 2.4 inch cartridge cases available at the time, so I shot .45-70's in it. Somewhere along the line I traded it off on a M71, which got traded for another '86.  I've since owned several of these guns, some in .45-70, .40-65 and .33 WCF.  I was able to take several wild boar with the .33 WCF in the late 1960's, and had loads for a rebuilt .45-70 that could have taken a tyrannosaurus rex or two, or a griz, but the opportunity for the later never presented itself.

The mechanism for the '86 and M71 is very interesting and a true testament to John Mose's genius.

The only flaw in the design of the original '86 is that the ejector forms the bottom half of the firing pin channel, and should the ejector head break off and not be noticed the following shot will allow the primer to back out and you get a slight sprinkling of gas on your forehead! No harm, no damage, but back in the '60's you could buy sets of M71 breechblock and locking lugs from Numrich.  The M71 breechblock has the entire firing pin channel surrounded by leather and the firing pin is smaller in diameter.  Fitted by a competent gunsmith, you eliminate the problem. (I believe the only time I had an ejector break like that was shooting heavy loads that pounded the ejector.) Just to be on the safe side, I had the .33 WCF rifle fitted with the second M71 breechblock and locking lugs that I had bought from Numrich.  I wouldn't hesitate to shoot originals with loads that were appropriate to the time period of manufacture of the original '86.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: PJ Hardtack on March 02, 2017, 06:09:54 PM
A while back I asked for an '86 forum page and was told that there was insufficient interest. I'm glad to see that has changed.

Maybe we can include it's baby brother the '92 as well. Both guns represent the epitome of lever action rifles.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on March 02, 2017, 09:49:04 PM
Maybe we can include it's baby brother the '92 as well. Both guns represent the epitome of lever action rifles.

Actually they added an 1892 forum too, right under this one!  I think it's a good idea too.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: 1961MJS on March 02, 2017, 10:33:11 PM
Hi

I picked up a new Winchester 1886 in a local gun store, and loved the feel, and balance.  I DIDN'T love the tang safety so I ordered a Chiappa.  Unfortunately, mine had the really fancy wood, but it's a shooter.  So far I've added a Marble folding sight, and a Lyman peep sight.  I think I'll replace the Lyman with a Marble Improved.  At this point, I'm shooting 300 gain Hornaday's in it, but may swap to 405 Grain Lead.

Later Y'all
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: PJ Hardtack on March 03, 2017, 01:31:16 PM
Actually they added an 1892 forum too, right under this one!  I think it's a good idea too.

CC Griff

.... so I see. That's a positive step.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on March 21, 2017, 12:52:12 AM
I remember seeing an old movie where a bad guy was using a 1886 but I can't remember the name of the movie. I remember it was in black & white.

I remember a movie starring Gary Cooper where he played a Texas Ranger that had gone up north to Canada. I believe the Canadian Mounted Police in the movie were carrying 1886 carbines. If I remember correctly that movie was "Distant Drums".

The most current movie where a 1886 is used is the new version of "Monte Walsh" starring Tom Selleck. I believe he uses an M1886 .50 Express carbine in the movie.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Forty Rod on March 21, 2017, 09:06:52 AM
I have a Browning repro with a 26" octagonal barrel in .45-70.

With proper ammo there's not much on this continent or the two to the south that I couldn't handle if I had the right ammo.  Not ever going to Asia or Africa, so they are moot to this discussion.

Besides, that big rifle is just as smooth as any I own and is really easy on the eyes.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Trooper Hook on March 21, 2017, 12:39:03 PM
Just a correction to Buckaroo Lou post. The Gary Cooper movie you mention was 1940,s Northwest Mounted Police in which he played a Texas Ranger in Canada. This was his and directors Cecil B Demille,s first all Technicolor movie. Just for your info.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on March 21, 2017, 08:44:05 PM
Trooper Hook, You are correct. I stand corrected.  :)
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Jimeast on March 30, 2017, 04:26:35 PM
Where did you get your 1886 re-stocked?  The new wood looks great!!!

Why indeed?  The Winchester 86 is such a great rifle.  I like the weight and the tank action.  Mine is a Browning - new to me this past year.  I have restocked it in nicer wood with a shotgun butt and chequering.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/DTaylorSapergia/CAS/100_6851_zpstnvmiwvk.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/DTaylorSapergia/media/CAS/100_6851_zpstnvmiwvk.jpg.html)

I too am delighted to see this new forum.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Gabriel Law on March 31, 2017, 12:46:13 PM
Jimeast:  I bought a stock blank from our local gunsmith at the Rod and Gun Club's annual Gun Show last May.  I paid $300 for the board.  He said it was American walnut, but I'm sure it is either Claro or Bastone - very hard and lovely figure.  And I stocked, chequered and finished it myself.  I raised the comb about 3/8" and with the shotgun but, removed the crescent and thus added 1 1/2" to the LOP.  Now the rifle shoulders and cheeks solidly...much more pleasant to shoot, and more easily shot accurately.  I'm still working on loads that htis rifle likes, but an having some success with AA5744 and Varget, and cast bullets at 418 grains.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on January 10, 2021, 12:18:41 PM
I just picked up a 24 inch round barreled 45/70 miruko winchester 1886.  Bought off Gun Broker from a guy in Grant NE of all places.  May have to visit his shop next time I am able to make a Muster in Sargent.  One trip to the range with it.  It will shoot when I do my part several loads 2 about 3/4 to 1 in apart and the 3 out about 2 inches.  Next trip will take Highpower 100 yard bull targets and use the more precise 6 o'clock hold vs the center of bull or cover bull technique
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Grizzly Adams on February 15, 2021, 12:06:28 PM
I believe Sam Eliot's character in Rough Riders is carrying an 1886 in the first part of that movie.
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Coffinmaker on April 14, 2021, 09:21:06 AM

 :)  None Of The Above   ;)

Yep.  None of the above.  You all miss the actual reason for the 1886.

It's because 1885 didn't sound right and 1887 was already taken.  :D  Likewise, 1889 just didn't have a "ring" to it.  Therefore, the 1886.  Ripley's

Stay Safe Out There
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: greyhawk on April 14, 2021, 06:00:45 PM
:)  None Of The Above   ;)

Yep.  None of the above.  You all miss the actual reason for the 1886.

It's because 1885 didn't sound right and 1887 was already taken.  :D  Likewise, 1889 just didn't have a "ring" to it.  Therefore, the 1886.  Ripley's

Stay Safe Out There

Coffin - yre asleep at the wheel mate - 1885 wuz already took too  ;D

hey I saw the coolest 1885 - was on the last few days visiting friends in the Nebraska sandhills and one of the locals invited me around to see his collection (just a knockabout bloke that liked guns not a money man at all) had two tables of stuff laid out for me to look at maybe 15 old guns and other table of new stuff AR's n such

Had a rattly old colt SA with 7 notches filed (long time ago) in the ejector housing/tube - he'd dug it up out there someplace in the hills - my attention went straight to the 1885 SS - Granmaws rifle she bought it to bring out when they settled here from the east - whats calibre ? he says 32/20 - I looked again - hole in the end is right size - I sez no mate thats a 32/40 can we look? - this rifle was a full schutzen option - tang sight, hooked brass buttplate, palm rest, the works -we looked - sure nuff - 32/40 ------------Granmaw had shot dinner more than a few times with it and maybe she got it cheap of some dude back home - ole mate had left it alone but looked after it - bore was good for an old gun - never saw another like it (original 85's were pretty rare downunder)
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Tazman1602 on June 26, 2022, 09:04:13 PM
It’s just the allure of the ‘86…Wife bought me one 15 years ago —- it was so pretty it was a safe queen who got wiped down once a month…..until last year, then it was bring it on. I’ve got a few 45-70”s, mostly Marlin JM’s but when I finally decided to shoot it game on. Always been a bullet caster now I’ve got piles of 45”s.

It’s simply the beauty of the rifle and especially just the sound the damn thing makes when you rack it. When I did take it out to shoot it and it shot 3-4” groups @100 yards with factory iron sights I was all in. Now one wears a Climbin’ Lyman and one (got 45-70 and 45-90) is getting a Skinner peep.

Now all that being said, I would NOT want to hump either one through the woods at this age for very long but it’s a damn fine rifle to sit with. Hopefully this year will be the first deer I’ve gotten since 1973 without a scope.

Blue steel, Walnut, old school, beautiful!

Art
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Trailrider on June 26, 2022, 10:33:07 PM
Just one more comment on the M1886... when Winchester chambered it in .33WCF, they came up with a real winner! My only criticism of that cartridge is that nowadays you can't get .338" JFSP bullets. Back in the '70's Hornady made some excellent ones. The '86's in that cartridge had better alloy steels than the originals. With the right powders...including Eley-Kynock's 4351/Herters 100, and a couple of other names, you could get 2450 ft/sec with the 200 gr. bullet. When Winchester modified the breech block and locking lugs and came out with the .348, I think they missed the boat in a way. If Browning or Miroku created a .338 Improved, you'd really have something! The main "problem" with the .33WCF on hawgs at close range, is that if one hog was standing behind another and you couldn't see the second critter, you'd get both with one shot! Cost me an extra $100 at the old Clarke Range Hunting Preserve in Tennessee back in '63! 

Another time, at a gun show in San Jose, California, I found a barrelled action laying on the table. I think I paid $50 for it, and spent a couple hundred more for parts and the stock. It had the letters "W.F. EXP CO. XXXX" on one barrel flat, not stamped, but looking engraved. The original lower tang was missing, and another replacement found to give it a serial number. Although the Wells Fargo marking was NOT standard (W.F. Co. Express is standard), the Wells Fargo Museum in SFO was of the opinion that it was a local-purchase item used by a messenger in a field office. The barrel was 16-3/8" long, which is correct for a "16-inch" barrel. A .40-65WCF would have been real handy in a railroad express car. But who knows?

Anyway, there is simply NO other big-bore lever rifle than an '86!
Title: Re: Why the 1886?
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on June 26, 2022, 10:35:30 PM
Just because I like them.

I once had an original saddle ring carbine in 45-70 in very good condition. I had to take money out of savings to buy it back then. I didn't like taking money out of the family savings to purchase one of my toys. I got concerned I would need the money so I decided I should sell it. I have always regretted it and wished I would have stuck it out.

I later bought both the Browning rifle and saddle ring carbine. Once again I sold the rifle but kept the carbine and again regretted it. So about two or three years ago I saw a Winchester/Miroku Deluxe Sporting Rifle and decided to purchase it.

I now have two, a Browning saddle ring carbine and the Winchester/Miroku deluxe rifle, both in 45-70. I will hang on to these and hopefully they will become one of my grandkids favorite rifles.