Author Topic: .44 Mako Henry bullet  (Read 13207 times)

Offline Mike

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2016, 12:48:05 AM »
I think its great that we want to shoot all the old origanal guns and ammunition, but does it matter that there are some most of us will never get the opertunity to shoot.
If there was enough demand some one would build a 44 Henry and I for one would try and get one.
Till then we are left with what we have.
Here in NZ we are at the end of the world and to get items here is a mission some time not worth the effort. You guys are lucky to have a hudge variety of items to choose from. These mould look great, I like the two bottom one.
I wait with interest the results of your testing. ;D
Buffalochip

Offline w44wcf

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2016, 09:47:44 PM »
Garrett,
If you would be interested in a mold for the MAKO bullet, I will contact Tom at Accurate molds and give him the dimensions. I have worked with Tom on several other mold designs and he does a great job. ;D

w44wcf
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Offline Driftwood Johnson

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2016, 09:24:29 AM »
Howdy

My first question is, why in the Wide World of Sports do you want to use a bullet that has lube not contained within the cartridge case?

The reason the Russians specified a cartridge with an inside lubricated bullet in their contract with S&W for the Russian Model was because of the issue of bullet lube on outside lubricated bullets attracting dirt and other contamination. It's not like modern 22 Rimfire ammunition which carries a relatively stiff, waxy lube on the outside of the bullet. Black Powder lube is by its nature soft and gooey. Soft and gooey lube will pick up dirt, pocket lint, and any other contamination it comes in contact with. I have accidentally dropped plenty of SPG lubed bullets on the floor and can attest to how much junk the soft lube picks up. Hopefully you will not be dropping your ammo on the floor, but in my humble opinion, the Russians were entirely correct to order their revolvers with the new inside lubed bullets for what became known as the 44 Russian cartridge, as opposed to the older, heeled bullet 44 S&W American ammunition. As later cartridge history will attest, ammunition using outside lubed heeled bullets soon became a cartridge evolution dead end.

As a disclaimer,  I will admit I have never understood the desire of some shooters to aspire to a cartridge for the Henry that comes close to approximating the old 44 Henry Rimfire cartridge. I have always been completely happy to shoot 44-40 in my Henry, as historically inaccurate as it may be. I have always looked at the increased powder capacity and power of the 44-40 as a plus, not a detriment.

But that is just me.

I am an unabashed admirer of the Big Lube Mav-Dutchman bullet. I have been using it for well over ten years now in all my Black Powder loaded 44-40 ammunition. I also use it in my Black Powder loaded 44 Russian ammo. Here is a photo of the Mav-Dutchman bullet with and without lube, as well as 44 Russian and 44-40 rounds loaded with it. Take a close look at how huge that lube groove is.





The point about needing lots of lube for dirty powder such as Goex is well founded. Over the years I have used the Big Lube bullets with Goex, Elephant, and Schuetzen powder. I can categorically state that Goex creates more fouling than Schuetzen, because of the superior charcoal that Schuetzen uses. Have not tried Swiss because of the expense and have not tried Olde Eynsford because I am too lazy to find it. But I can tell you that the more fouling a powder creates, the more bullet lube you need to keep a hard layer of fouling from building up near the muzzle.

Years ago I did a fair amount of experimenting with various bullet styles, including bullets that were marketed as being designed for Black Powder. Some of these bullets had two thin lube grooves designed to provide more lube than traditional hard cast bullets with one lube groove. I just scrounged around and found some, they were made by Mid-Kansas Cast Bullet, Inc. They looked very similar to the Black Dawge bullets in w44wcf's photo. My experience is that when coupled with dirty powder like Goex, these bullets did not carry enough lube to keep the bore lubed with soft lube for its entire length. I had to swab my bore out after 10 or 20 rounds, or hard fouling deposited near the muzzle would start to deteriorate accuracy. Since switching over to the Mav-Dutchman bullet I have not had to swab my barrel at all during a match. Typically I will send 60 to 80 rounds down range at a CAS match, never have to swab out my bore any more.

I can claim no first hand experience with the Mav-Dutcman bullet in 44 Special, but there is no reason why you could not use it, or in any other short cartridge such as 44 Colt. The trick is partially to come up with a cartridge Over All Length that will function in your rifle. Seating the Mav-Dutchman bullet in its crimp groove will dictate OAL in any particular cartridge, and to some extent it will also determine how much powder you can stuff into the case. Varying the amount of compression will allow you to vary the amount of powder, within reason.

So, there are some thoughts from an old fogey who has been around the block a few times with Black Powder cartridges in revolvers and lever guns.

P.S. I use Big Lube bullets with Black Powder in 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38-40.
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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #23 on: Today at 06:06:22 AM »

Offline Major 2

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2016, 11:21:23 AM »
Sorry gents for not putting in that detail......I forgot this thread includes the 1866.   I do in fact have a Uberti 1860 Henry in .44 Special.  I purchased it from a member last year in the CasCity classifieds and posted a couple of pics yesterday in the Henry Roster thread, including one with the chambering mark on the barrel.  They are indeed scarce from everything I've read on this forum and I'm surprised no one else jumped on it before I did.
G

Just so you knows, you were not the only one ... :)

two things conspired that had me  PROCRASINATE

a. ( and this held no water really ) it would have been # 5  SHE that must be obeyed, frowned on that  idea  ( but in cal. I did not have,  I argued ... soooo. )

b.  no fundsvitiis ( at that moment ) time & tide saythe' the proverb  ::)

you did well and I'm happy for you...really I am  :-\

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 however , 4 of kind would have been beaten by Full house (5) in this case  ;) had I had the funds...
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Offline Garret

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2016, 09:40:53 PM »
Thanks Major!
I had a feeling there were others that were thinkin' this one over.  Once I had read some earlier posts on the forum regarding this chambering I knew it's what I wanted to get back into Henry shooting with. 

For style points, the Henry just has no equal! 
All the best,
Garret

Offline Montana Slim

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2016, 04:13:12 PM »
I'm also a fan of the big lube "MAV".
If you're looking for a variation, I bet this design could be altered to have a longer, smother ogive tapering out to a smaller diameter meplat.
This would increase bullet weight, maybe 15 grains or so & give a bit better performance at longer distances.

I think the 44 special cartridge with the MAV bullet would be pretty close in powder capacity & load density. To help with fouling blowback, you could try annealing your case mouths.

I'm a cheater & use the 44-40, loaded with no more than 30 grains of FF, with the MAV & have had good luck on a large range "gong" target out just past 400 yds (with factory sights)...yes, sitting & using X-sticks (not off-hand).

Good shooting & luck with your rifle,
SLim
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Offline Garret

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Re: .44 Mako Henry bullet
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2016, 10:04:32 PM »
Halloo Slim!  Thanks for the suggestion.  I've considered the Mav but just had the bug to try a bullet closer to the original Henry design.  44WCF has been helping me out and has been in contact with Accurate.  Now I have a design worked up and will have a mold made.

I've been loading initially with a box of commercially cast bullets and and am ready to start casting for the Henry with this new mold.  It's  a lot of fun, for sure.  I'm looking forward to it!

All the best,
G

 

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