.44 Mako Henry bullet

[Garret]

Hello All,
I just joined the Henry roster and would like to know if anyone has pursued having a mould made to cast the 215 grn Mako Henry bullet as posted by Mako, http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,35624.25.html,  reply 42?
It's intriguing to me and I'd love to try it out.  I may check in with Bernie at Old West Bullet Moulds and see what he could do.
In the meantime, plenty of fun ahead.
All the best,
Garret

[Blackpowder Burn]

You might also check with Tom at Accurate Molds (www.accuratemolds.com).  He'll make any mold you want for no additional charge.

[Coffinmaker]

My first question is .... What do you plan to shoot it out of??  It is a .44 Bullet.  It would be sized somewhere between .428 and .430 or
so.  Henry's are only available in 44-40 or .45 Colt.  You could use the bullet it the 44-40, but there are other, simpler choices for bullets.
The prime consideration with BP will be how much lube will it carry (enough??)

Coffinmaker

[Advertising]

[Garret]

Ok,
I have a Uberti chambered in .44 special and am looking into a mould for this style bullet.  So far I've been using a commercially cast .430, 215 grain.  Good results but I'm just getting my feet wet.  I'm going to be shooting with BP only so of course amount of lube is a concern.  I like Mako's idea because it has one inside lube groove and one outside with a crimping groove to give the look of the heel based bullet.  Going overboard, maybe but it's fun.   I'm wanting to try something like this out because I want a cartridge that gets "close" to the original Henry.  I realize that it was a rim fire and the other specs are off, but of all the chamberings available for the replica Henry rifle the .44 special gets me a little closer to my interest.  That's the fun!
Thanks,
Garret

[Pettifogger]

If you want something that is "close" shoot .44 Russians and buy a Smith Shop carrier.  Mako made lots of neat drawings.  I don't think anyone ever made an actual mold.

[Garret]

Thanks Pettifogger.  I have some .44 Colt and .44 Russian brass to experiment with.  Lots to play with and until I find a bullet I like, I'll continue with the commercial cast bullets I've started with.  Plenty of experimenting with different  BPs and cases.  I intend to chronograph as well as  do the target work.  Who knows, I may go with Blackpowder Burn's suggestion and check in with Accurate Molds.   I'm going to combine the ideas of physical/visual characteristics of the bullets with actual performance.  I think historical performance is of more interest to me, but if I can get close to the visual as well so much the better.
Garret

[Coffinmaker]

Just curious.  What kink of rifle??  Henry, 1866, 73??  44 Special Henry rifles are scarce.

Coffinmaker

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Just curious.  What kink of rifle??  Henry, 1866, 73??  44 Special Henry rifles are scarce.

Coffinmaker

I mhave to capture this before you correct the spelling. Truly a Freudian remark!

[wildman1]

Coffinmaker-kinkster? wM1

[Garret]

Sorry gents for not putting in that detail......I forgot this thread includes the 1866.   I do in fact have a Uberti 1860 Henry in .44 Special.  I purchased it from a member last year in the CasCity classifieds and posted a couple of pics yesterday in the Henry Roster thread, including one with the chambering mark on the barrel.  They are indeed scarce from everything I've read on this forum and I'm surprised no one else jumped on it before I did.
G

[Coffinmaker]

Well, ..... ah ...... some guns are just kind of ...... well ....... Kinky.   After all, how many can you think of where you twist it's nose to
put pills down it's throat and then crank it to start it??  Well ?  How Many ??

(Snickers with embarrassment)  

Coffinmaker (Kin Spel gud tu!!  )

Aw ........ Well .... Garret.   Um .... What's yer address??  You got an alarm system??  Big Dog?  Malevolent big Watch Goose??  a Fridge full of Ice Cream??  You like Ale???  Lots of Ale?  Just cause, to closely replicate the 44 Henry Flat (as close as we can) I load 44 Russian cases with a Smith Shop Carrier.  In my 45 Henrys, I use C45S cases.  You can get a lot of em in there.  Lot less trouble than
"special" bullets.  Oh, and I shoot APP so I don't have to mess with lubes.

[Garret]

Alarms, big dog, wild goose, killer kitty cats, rabid attack squirrels, nosy neighbors.........unfortunately just finished off my Ben and Jerrys Chocolate Fudge Brownie so have to reup on that.......I dooooo love English Ale........
Hey, don't sidetrack me!
I've looked at the carriers and may try that too.  First off I want to look at ballistics and performance on various case sizes, BP brands and granulations and even magnum primers.  I do want to try out some different projectiles and really liked the idea that Mako had for his non-heeled bullet that gives the look of one. Anyhow, lots to try and play around with and that's for sure.  I even have a chemical solution for the brass that puts a copper wash on the cases.  I'm sure it will wear poorly, but what the heck!  I've also made my own replicas of the New Haven Arms pasteboard cartridge boxes for my ammunition.  Not enough time to do all I want......maybe when I retire.....
Have fun Boys!
Garret

[Coffinmaker]

Aw heck Garret,

I am Retarded ..... er Retired, ya thats it, Retired.  There still ain't enough hours.  Gotta keep trying though.  Messing with guns is just

PURE FUN!!

Coffinmaker

OK.  I'll skip your house.  Drat the luck.

[Garret]

Coffinmaker,
Just keep your eyes open and some buffalo tongue handy.....my dog will be your new best friend!   By the way the goose and others just make a lot of racket.
You're right....messing and playing with guns is just about the most fun one can have....
It'll be a few years before I can afford to retire.  In the meantime I'll do what I can to keep the ball rolling. 
All the best,
Garret

[Mike]

I am very interested  too see how you get on with the 44sp and BP, I have a 73 in 44sp and have thought about useing BP in it but as I have a few 44 WCF's that get fed a good diet of the black stuff have never got around to it.
I do use a 215 round nose in a 44sp Richards with BP.

[Garret]

I have put around 100 rounds through with a 215 grn .430 with about 28 gr of 2F Goex.  Most of this has been around 25 yds so I'm planning to go further out on my next try.  So far I'm getting pretty good results, but will be doing more serious work with chronograph, etc.  I have had more blowback than when I had my .44-40, but not extreme.  It does cause my carrier to freeze up after 25 rounds or so but was prepared for that after reading about straight walled cases in the toggle link actions.
I'm looking forward to trying some Olde Eynsford as it's reportedly a hotter powder.  We shall see!

[Mike]

Tne blos back is a concern to me as my 44 WCF dont.
will give it ago, might up the load from 28grns.

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Garret!!! 

Just an observation of interest ........ or not     What your doing with your Henry, powders, bullets, primers, cases adfinitum  ........ La De Da and all that rot.  Some of us have already done.  Got "fat heads" from the experience and hauled our soap box around pontificating
about all the wondrous discoveries we have made.   

Never mind, somebody, in those Halcyon Days of Yesteryear ('bout two, three weeks or months ago) had also already done it, got the same "fat Head" and pontificated at length about "Their" wondrous discoveries.  Which in some cases, date back about century or so
when some other Fat Head pontificated about "his" marvelous and enlightening discoveries.  Where was I going, you might ask.  Well.

In all honesty, I pontificated so much I forgot (I do that).  Howsomeever, if you wish, you might look at some of the "back" posts that cover your endeavor.  I suggest this, only in the event you become frustrated, or irritated, or just tired of fooling around with your stuff.
In that event, you can just "look it up."

If, however, If, your just having too much fun playing with your stuff, simply ignore all of the foregoing and endeavor to persevere.  But,
only if your still having fun. 

If, in the event you cease and desist from fun and frolic with your stuff ..... Send the 44 Henry to ME.  THERE!!    That's where I was
going!!   

Incidentally, Shot today's CAS match "Clean" with my 24 inch Martial 45 Colt Henry with C45S cases and special carrier.  Hand guns were
a pair of Pietta 44 1860 Snubbies and a TTN Mule Ear Shotgun.  Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.    Do you need my address 

[Garret]

Hey There Coffinmaker,

Thanks for your post. Before I actually acquired this .44 Special I had the bug to get my hands on another Henry replica, having foolishly sold one of the early Allen Arms Ubertis waaaay back.  In some preliminary reading on this forum I saw postings about the limited .44 Specials which peaked my interest.  So I started going through older posts reading up on what fellows were doing with the different chamberings.  So when the .44 Spl I have appeared in the classifieds I jumped on it.

All of the reading I had done inspired me further, so when I looked at the various posts on duplicating .44 RF, I really liked the idea of the Mako-Henry bullet.  Just in case someone had pursued it I thought I'd ask.  Someday I may look into having a mould made for that bullet.  I don't intend loading any smokeless.  For me the lure of getting as close to the original as possible is the draw.  So as you and Chief Dan George said, "I shall endeavor to persevere!"  After having regretted selling my first, I think it'll be some time before I'll let this one go.........

All the best,
Garret

[w44wcf]

Hi Garret,
Interesting thought process. Since, to date, there has never been a mold made for the Mako bullet (bullet A comes close if the crimp groove was used as a lube groove and the front lube groove was used as a crimp groove),  the second best thing would be to use the two lube grooved 427098 (Accurate 43-210B) and crimp it in the bottom of the front lube groove.

I placed 28 grs of b.p. into a fired .44 Special W-W case then placed a 43-210B on top.  To seat the bullet to crimp into the bottom of the front lube groove, the powder would be compressed .07". The bullet seating depth was .23" and the cartridge OAL was 1.57" which would be similar to the OAL of the Mako bullet.

Will a cartridge that length feed through your rifle?

One thing with the two lube grooved bullet........ only Swiss and Olde Enysford will give satisfactory results, producing no hard fouling for many rounds.



Another thing for consideration.....the original Henry ctg was loaded with 25 grs of b.p. and a 216 gr bullet.  Placing 25 grs. of b.p. in a .44 Special case will allow the seating of a "Big Lube" Mav  bullet with a bit of compression. That bullet will run fine with any b.p. because of its larger lube capacity as will the Accurate 43-215C.

Update:
I decided to take some .44 Special brass and try some different loading combinations with b.p.
The original .44 Henry as loaded with a 216 gr bullet and 25 grs of b.p.

The Accurate 43-215C pictured above is almost spot on to that bullet weight.  I loaded a settled 25 gr charge by weight of Goex b.p. and found that the compression required to seat the bullet to the crimp groove was .12" which is aok.



The .44 Henry's original 25 gr charge of b.p. / 216 gr bullet was changed to 28 grs and a 200 gr. bullet for most of its remaining life.
A settled 28 gr. charge by weight of Goex and seating the 43-210B (427098 clone) to crimp over the top of the middle driving band yielded .06" compression.

Swiss b.p. is 10% more dense than Goex. In other words, 27.5 grs by weight of Swiss will fit in the same space as 25 grs. of Goex. Using the correct weight 200 gr. "Big Lube" bullet over a settled charge of 28 grs by weight of Swiss gave .12" compression.

I do not own a .44 rifle other than a .44-40. Otherwise I would be happy to try the above recipies and give a range report.  

www.whyteleatherworks.com. Offers the "Big Lube" and 43-210B bullets for sale.

w44wcf