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CAS TOPICS => The Darksider's Den => SHOTS => Topic started by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 27, 2011, 11:11:16 AM

Title: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 27, 2011, 11:11:16 AM

THE BLACK COVENANT

By this Covenant, an Order known as THE ANCIENT AND HONOURABLE BROTHERHOOD OF BERTHOLD AND BACON is hereby recognized always to have existed from the days of those Venerable and Ancient Bretheren

TO BE HEREAFTER PUBLICKLY KNOWN AS

THE SUBLYME  & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT, (SHOTS) , In common parlay referred to as THE BLACK ORDER, or “The Order” in this Covenant

THE PURPOSE of The Order is to Uphold and Propagate the exercize of armes employing the ANCIENT SUBSTANCE called gonne powder or the HOLY SOOT. These armes, or devices, are called GONNES.  They vary from Artillerie, and include Rockets (as recently perfekted by Master Congreve), to handgonnes, arquebusiers, carbines and all sorts of rifled armes, musketry and fowling pieces, and include armes charged with loose gonne powder and armes charged with cartridges of metal, paper, or skin.  It does NOT include the Holy Soot used for celebration or demolition.  Guy Fawkes has forfeited his right to be a member of The Order.

THE PRACTISE  of The Order will be perpetrated in two parts;

The BLACK ART is the practise of armes using the ANCIENT SUBSTANCE while hunting, warring, or at friendly and sporting tournaments of all sorts.

The BLACK MYSTERIE is the study, experimentation, and propagation of the knowledge required to manufacture, maintain and employ all sorts of Gonnes using the ANCIENT SUBSTANCE, and the ballistiques, rapiditie and arcs of any solid object propelled by its most sudden explosion.

DEFINITIONS

The term “ANCIENT" has two meanings, not exclusive from the one to the other;

1.    Beyond the memory of living man.
2.    A man living beyond his memory, otherwise known as a "senior citizen".

A "GONNE" referred to in this COVENANT must always be emploied with the ANCIENT SUBSTANCE.

MEMBERSHIP in The Order is voluntary, and is arranged in the ranks here denoted, which must be ascended in the order in which they here proceed:

NOVICE.    This being the rank open to any person who has discharged any gonne, or desires to.

BROTHER.  This being the rank open to any NOVICE who has the deed upon, or the habitual use of, any gonne.

BROTHER AT ARMES.  This being the rank open to any BROTHER who follows the BLACK ART by either hunting with a gonne, useing a gonne in mortal combat, or competing in tournaments of sport of any sort with a gonne.

LEARNED BROTHER  This being the rank open to any BROTHER who studies the Ancient texts, conducts research into the use, improvement, and employment of gonnes, and especially those who propagate their acquired knowledge of the BLACK MYSTERIE to other members or among the heathen who still use inferior forms of gonne powder, such as those foolish pieces which propagateth NOT the glorious and sulphorous cloud when discharged.

BROTHER ARTISAN being a member who engineers, revizes, beautifies or otherwize tinkers with gonnes, accoutraments or munitions.

MASTER.  Open to BROTHERS AT ARMES, LEARNED BROTHERS, and BROTHER ARTISANS who have achieved notable success in either the BLACK ARTS or the BLACK MYSTERIES.

HONOURABLE MASTER.  Open to MASTERS who are acknowledged by their brother MASTERS to have achieved notable skill in the BLACK ARTS and for theyr prominence in propagating the BLACK MYSTERIE.

Any member may precede their rank with the term ANCIENT if they satisfy either definition.

Members may append their rank, after theyr mark, or seel, on any correspondence they choose.
Members above the rank of BROTHER may refer to themselves as LORD OF THE SOOT, or by theyr rank.

Members must rise through the ranks in order, except that BROTHER AT ARMES, LEARNED BROTHER, and BROTHER ARTISAN are equal in rank, and may choose theyr route to enlightenment, and may change it at theyre own whym.

Members promote themselves on the basis of Honour and Honesty, subject to challenge  by TRIAL BY INVECTIVE, Duelling having been outlawed except for a duelling tree at a friendly tourney, and only after a "seemly" period of time in each rank.

Members are reminded hereforth that the virtues of chastity, civility, sobriety and temperance are best and most happily fownde amongst other orders, such as munks.  Members are advised to follow these virtues ONLY whythe gonne in hand.

A prospective member of the Order may, at theyre own whym, and fayling memory if an ANCIENT, backdate theyre qualifications. Status as a NOVICE may be backdated indefinitely if he or she wore a cheap copy of a coon-skin cap and watched Fess Parker on a black and white television set as a child.  If memory does not extend that far, ownership of your own copy of THE OUTLAW JOSIE WALES and QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER is prima facie proofe.  Status as a BROTHER may be backdated to when you bought your first Spanish or Italian muzzleloader kit, whether you assembled it or not.

PROOFE OF MEMBERSHIP is proved by possession of a copy of this COVENANT signed by ones-selfe, without necessitie of witnesses or oathe. In the alternative, proofe may be evidenced by signing a copy on the spot in the presence of another purported member. If a copy of the COVENANT is not available a member may prove his status by crying out at the top of his voice in the presence of at least one purported member; "THE ANCIENT SUBSTANCE ENDURES - ALL LESSER PROPELLANTS SHALL FIZZLE!"

ORGANIZATION of The Order is by consensus of the members under the Benevolent Leadership of an ANCIENT AND GRAND MASTER, assisted by PALADINS appointed by hymself and a SECRETARIAT also appointed, to keep any necessary records or an Exchequer as required.  If an ANCIENT AND GRAND MASTER cannot be arrived at by consensus, GOD HELP US.

Members of any rank may be "at Large".  This does not depend on the length of theyr gonne belt, but indicates that they practise the BLACK ART or the BLACK MYSTERIE as individual champions.  Alternatively, members may arrange themselves as a HOUSE, or a COMPANY.  A HOUSE implies a geographical entity, while a COMPANY may be devoted to a particular form of the BLACK ART. 

DISPUTE RESOLUTION is normally decided by LEARNED DISCOURSE, followed by adoption by consensus.  Discourse is best proceeded with after proper vocal lubrication wythe that ancient liquid, Bier, or any other water of life.

TRIAL BY INVECTIVE may be invoked by a member of any rank who wishes to take any other member to task for any dispute, real or imagined.  It could be for a matter of fact that cannot be resolved by LEARNED DISCOURSE, or a matter of honour, or of unseemly self promotion.  Trial by Invective ends when the matter is resolved or conceded by either party, or is ended peremptorily by resolution of at least three members of the same or higher rank.   

DISSOLUTION of the Order will be readily apparent when nobody cares anymore.

BY APPENDING YOUR MARK AND SEEL HERETO YOU COVANENT TO UPHOLDE AND PROPAGATE THE PRACTISE AND VIRTUES OF THE ORDER AND OF THE HOLY SUBSTANCE


 ______________________________________  ( Seel)   
                                                                                                   

                    Rank                      Date Affected       ____________   
________________________________________________________________




Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 27, 2011, 11:16:54 AM
In discussion on another thread, a proposal was made by Our Brother Dastardly Dick that a registry of members of the HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT be formed.  It just so happened that I had prepared a document back in November of 2005 that contemplated such a call to ARMES.

It is intended that this ORDER be entirely voluntary and ruled on the HONOUR System. For more background refer to this thread;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,41272.0.html
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 27, 2011, 11:27:32 AM
REGISTRY OF MEMBERS;

ANCIENT & GRAND MASTER - There should only be one person of such notable stature.  Nominations please.

PALADIN - A Paladin was an Imperial agent on roving assignment from Charlemagnes Court. I propose that there be only one for each Nation or important region within such Nation.  His appointment to be by concensus whilst  an Ancient & Grand Master (AGM) is being selected. Duties are to assist the AGM, and generally supervise such Nation or Region's members.

 I propose the following; (These are obvious to me - further suggestions are invited)
Rattlesnake Jack - Canada
Paladin UK -  Great Britain
Long Johns Wolf - Germany
Steel Horse Bailey -  USA  (Region?)
TwoWalks Baldridge - USA  (Region?)

HONOURABLE MASTERS
Mike Venturino - For his activities in popularizing BPCR and otherwise publicizing all armes using the Ancient Substance.
The Mad Monk, aka E Ogre and in real life Bill Knight.  The Mad Monk, is skillful learned and has practiced such skills of the BLACK MYSTERIE to the degree that he is Nationally Known as the Most Authoritative Individual of Original Gunpowder, both historically and of current manufacture.  He has no equal in current times  

MASTERS - in no particular order or degree of importance.  Masters and above are known as Lords of the Soot, or "Soot Lord".
Bottom Dealing Mike
John  Boy
W44WCF
Paladin UK
Rattlesnake Jack
Mako - learned and Artisan  (a good candidate for MASTER)
Dastardly Dick

BROTHERS AT ARMES, LEARNED BROTHERS, AND BROTHER ARTISANS    (Divided or grouped?) List major acomplishments
e.g;  Raven - Artisan
Blackpowder Burn -         

BROTHERS - This is the working rank for blackpowder competitors.

NOVICES - (Need they be listed, or keep the multitudes in a lump until they acheive notoriety?)

Nominations are welcome for all ranks.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Paladin UK on December 27, 2011, 01:47:50 PM
Thank you Sir Charles  :-[  I`m Honoured.

Paladin  (Whats  :-[  :-[  :-[ But chuffed  ;) ) UK
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: john boy on December 27, 2011, 02:07:40 PM
Sir Charles, thank you kindly.  Has a nice sound to it .... Master John Boy, herein enrolled in the Black Order, the SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: john boy on December 27, 2011, 02:23:23 PM
Quote
HONOURABLE MASTER.  Open to MASTERS who are acknowledged by their brother MASTERS to have achieved notable skill in the BLACK ARTS and for theyr prominence in propagating the BLACK MYSTERIE

I desire to place the name ... The Mad Monk, also known as E Ogre and in real life Bill Knight as an HONOURABLE MASTER.
The Mad Monk, is skillful learned and has practiced such skills of the BLACK MYSTERIE to the degree that he is Nationally Known as the Most Authoritative Individual of Original Gunpowder, both historically and of current manufacture.  He has no equal in current times 
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 27, 2011, 02:33:23 PM
I desire to place the name ... The Mad Monk, also known as E Ogre and in real life Bill Knight as an HONOURABLE MASTER.
The Mad Monk, is skillful learned and has practiced such skills of the BLACK MYSTERIE to the degree that he is Nationally Known as the Most Authoritative Individual of Original Gunpowder, both historically and of current manufacture.  He has no equal in current times 

I second that...  There is no other living soul as knowledgeable of the history, manufacture, sources or formulations thereof than Bill Knight.

~Mako
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on December 27, 2011, 07:40:44 PM
To the grandest order's leadership. i espectfuly request consideration for "LEARNED BROTHER "

I have shot Holy Black since 2004, I have slowly but surely dabbled in more complex black powder weapons - ie getting C&B's converted to cartridge and shooting 10 gauge period winchester and remington shotguns and shooting my 1873 St Etienne revolvers.

I also started the VA Fire and Brimstone Posse working hard with other VA purveyors of the soot to share the love and enjoyment of shooting the holy black in VA.

Other members of the VA Fire and Brimstone Posse deserve inclusionin this worthy order as well.  Should i submit their names in mass or have them post seperately?

Respectfully,

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 27, 2011, 08:17:17 PM
No offense PR, but now I'm confused as to what a Learned Brother would be.  I just saw that Sir Charles had me categorized as such.

Sir Charles, elaborate please.

One more thing, some of us have used Black Powder in combat.  Those that have used artillery of 105 or greater and ground attack aerial ordnance in combat have used BP.  Most of the initiators have BP bursting charges.  So those who are arties with combat experience and others like me have used BP in combat.  I guess that meets one of the categories you listed that most thought would remain unfilled.

Regards,
Mako
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Blackpowder Burn on December 27, 2011, 10:00:31 PM
I would request admission to the SUBLYME AND HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT as a Brother at Armes.

I have used the one true powder exclusively since 2008 in an average of three (3) tournaments each month.  I have gonnes of the type as follows.  Each is of minimum 44 caliber and charged with maximum volumes of the Soot.
 - cap'n ball revolvers
 - cartridge revolvers
 - double hammer shotgun
 - lever and pump action cartridge rifles

I work assiduously to enlighten and convert the ignorant to the use of the One True Powder, and thus to forsake the heathen powder.  By producing copious clouds of true white smoke at all tournaments I attend, I bring attention to, and interest in, the Holy Soot.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 27, 2011, 11:02:32 PM
Mako;  I had you figured as being educated in various sorts of Alchemy as an engineer.  You have studied the texts, and put your learning to use in fabricating forms of munitions for Gonnes. That make you LEARNED and an ARTISAN.  There may be some merit in your claim to be a BROTHER AT ARMES as well, but I had it in mind that what was important was that the propellant should be the ANCIENT SUBSTANCE.  Time for learned discourse?

Oh, and what about all those illluminated diagrams you produce so readily?

Blackpowder Burn;  You sound like a BROTHER AT ARMES to me.  So be it.

Members of the Order of all ranks may make submissions and raise issues.  We are feeling our way through this! I often need prompting from time to time as I fit the second definition of "ancient"!
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on December 28, 2011, 06:03:29 AM
Mako no offense taken...I by no means see myself in the same vein as you, john boy, raven (dang i wish i had an ounce of that craftmanship) and countless others.

I was merely using the definitions provided in the charter above and what I have done since being consumed by the Holy Black:)

I will stand by for any clarifications and appreciate the effort being taken upon here.

Thanks SCDB!

V/r PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Long Johns Wolf on December 28, 2011, 06:55:47 AM
Sir Charles, thanks a bunch. I strive to prove myself worthy of the nomination.
Long Johns Wolf
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 28, 2011, 09:19:27 AM
Mako no offense taken...I by no means see myself in the same vein as you, john boy, raven (dang i wish i had an ounce of that craftmanship) and countless others.

I was merely using the definitions provided in the charter above and what I have done since being consumed by the Holy Black:)

I will stand by for any clarifications and appreciate the effort being taken upon here.

Thanks SCDB!

V/r PR

Thanks PR, I wasn't trying to be snooty or elitist, I was just trying to understand what the title meant.  The way Sir Charles has explained it is the way I took it when I read it.

You have done a lot and the longest running thread on this forum proves it.  I definitely think there needs to be recognition for that.

Regards,
Mako
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 28, 2011, 09:28:58 AM
 There may be some merit in your claim to be a BROTHER AT ARMES as well, but I had it in mind that what was important was that the propellant should be the ANCIENT SUBSTANCE.  Time for learned discourse?

Sir Charles,
We are talking the Ancient Powder here...  The military keeps GOEX in business, if it weren't for all of the military uses then they would be out of business.  I mean good old fashioned Powder; Charcoal, Potassium Nitrate and Sulfur.

Real Powder is used in almost every fuze initiator for large caliber projectiles and bombs.  In many cases it is also a part of the booster in the priming train.  The military (usually contractors) use tons and tons of GOEX BP every year for those proposes.  So as I said anyone who was in the artillery, naval gunnery or in a ground attack squadron then they have used the Ancient Substance (though of modern manufacture) in combat. 

Regards,
Mako
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 28, 2011, 09:39:01 AM
I am working through those who have posted on the initial thread and all submissions threafter. The is some catching up to do.

Pony Racer;  Submission approved.  Your accolites in the VA Fire & Brimstone Posse should be recorded on this roll.  Perhaps you could submit your list with recommended rank.

Other clubs with numbers of prospective members could do the same.   National and Regional PALADINS could get involved in this process.

BTW;  Who is the Swedish BP shooter who fires cannons?  Was it QBall?

Mako;  I just noted your explanation.  I am inclined to agree.  Anyone else have any remarks in this DISCOURSE?
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on December 28, 2011, 10:16:58 AM
Wahooooooooooo ;D

I will submit the names soon!

Thanks for noting the F&B Posse thread - one of my good friends and I started it as just a small group of folks  for fun and sharing about the one true powder...I was suprised how it grew quickly and how I then got involved with supporting events and such.

I have a small pin that  says "Darksider Posse" with skull and crossbones.

Maybe we should come up with a small design and do up a pin or something?  I will take this on if there is interest!

Just let me know.

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 28, 2011, 12:05:47 PM
Pony Racer;  I'd like to see proposals for a crest/pin. 

Two Walks Baldridge;  Thanks for offering to have the covenant rendered in pdf format.  Hopfully it would have a parchment look.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: john boy on December 28, 2011, 10:56:02 PM
Quote
BTW;  Who is the Swedish BP shooter who fires cannons?  Was it QBall?
Sir Charles, Qball is the 1st WartHog from Sweden but searching his posts couldn't find that he is a cannon-er.  Calamity Jane up in Canada is the one who made and shoots cannons.  She was active on The Frontier Spot but dropped off the map when that forum died
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: john boy on December 28, 2011, 11:22:02 PM
Quote
ANCIENT & GRAND MASTER - There should only be one person of such notable stature.  Nominations please.

Berthold Schwarz, a German monk, is sometimes credited with the invention of gunpowder, based on his improvements to the Roger Bacon formula. He took the name of Berthold in religion, to which was appended the adjective Schwarz (black), either on account of the color of his habit or because he was looked on as being addicted to the black art. It was in the course of his studies in alchemy that he discovered the explosive properties of gunpowder, which he applied to firearms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Schwarz

or ...
Zeng Gongliang and Yang Weide in AD 1044 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gunpowder
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Lucky Irish Tom on December 29, 2011, 05:15:25 AM
Should we petition the Marshal to make the SHOTS board a Child board of the Darksider's Den so that the posts and roll of Honorable members will not get lost within the daily postings of the Darksider's Den?
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Noz on December 29, 2011, 08:53:49 AM
My head hurts. :P
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 29, 2011, 09:20:05 AM
My head hurts. :P

FUN, yes!  Serious, well not really, but it'll be FUN ;D ;D
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 29, 2011, 09:26:31 AM
My head hurts. :P

Okay, how many fingers am I holding up?
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on December 29, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
Should we petition the Marshal to make the SHOTS board a Child board of the Darksider's Den so that the posts and roll of Honorable members will not get lost within the daily postings of the Darksider's Den?

Yes we should.  Thanks for mentioning it.

Mako & Noz;  Stay 8)!
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Dick Dastardly on December 29, 2011, 11:29:45 AM
Yes, Lucky Irish Tom,

Please make it so.  That way we will be better able to look up rank standings and postings.

I shall now change my current signature trailer to "Master" of the Dark Arts which I shall abbreviate "MDA"

DD-MDA
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on December 29, 2011, 11:37:23 AM
Sir Charles,
We are talking the Ancient Powder here...  The military keeps GOEX in business, if it weren't for all of the military uses then they would be out of business.  I mean good old fashioned Powder; Charcoal, Potassium Nitrate and Sulfur.

Real Powder is used in almost every fuze initiator for large caliber projectiles and bombs.  In many cases it is also a part of the booster in the priming train.  The military (usually contractors) use tons and tons of GOEX BP every year for those proposes.  So as I said anyone who was in the artillery, naval gunnery or in a ground attack squadron then they have used the Ancient Substance (though of modern manufacture) in combat. 

Regards,
Mako
Don't forget the lowly Frag Grenade.  Not sure that counts as a Gonne, not being an arm, merely thrown by one
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 30, 2011, 01:17:05 AM
Don't forget the lowly Frag Grenade.  Not sure that counts as a Gonne, not being an arm, merely thrown by one


Dan,
How old are you?  Are you a WWII or Korean War vet? 

The Mk10 fuze was the last grenade fuze to use a Black Powder bursting charge because some of the Mk2 grenades used EC powder as the filler instead of TNT flakes.  The M26, M61 and M67 grenades all used or use a Mk204 or Mk213 fuze which uses lead azide, lead styphnate, and RDX as the detonator charge. The later Mk2 grenades also used the Mk204 fuze.  They went back to composition B or TNT with the notched  fragmentation coils and even the old Mk2s were all the TNT variety from what I understand. The current  M67 bodies with their internal nubbies use Comp B and the Mk213 fuze which has no BP.

They pulled all of the Mk2s after Korea because they were truly a defensive grenade with the TNT charges and the large hunks of grenade body that would travel farther than the advertised blast radius.

I know the Soviet Vietnam era grenades all used TNT as their fillers so they wouldn't use a black powder fuse, the Chinese grenades were all copies of the Soviet designs.

I know I've never thrown or used a grenade that had BP in the composition except for an M62 or M69 practice grenades which use BP as the marking charge.  I never saw those anywhere beyond the training pits at TBS.

We made fuzes, timers and bursting assemblies so I'm familiar with the Mk204 series and Mk213 series as well as the Mk205 series (BP practice) fuzes.  The bigger ordnance uses a composite fuze and bursting charge so the BP works better and has the space for it you don't have in a hand thrown grenade with a body full of Comp B or TNT.  They're all Comp B now.

Regards,
Mako
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on December 30, 2011, 01:00:47 PM
EVERY US tank main gun ammo uses (up to) a pound and a half of BP as the initiating charge.  That's 105mm & 120mm.   That's how I know I've personally shot over 3 tons (tonnes, Sir Chas.) of BP so far in my life.  And more every match!
 ;)

I'm also sure (or mostly) that artillery rounds are made the same way, all the way up to and including the 16 inch guns on the (now retired) battleships.  I think I heard that the 16" uses something like 8 pounds of BP as the ignition charge, but I'm not sure.

Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Mako on December 30, 2011, 06:41:25 PM
EVERY US tank main gun ammo uses (up to) a pound and a half of BP as the initiating charge.  That's 105mm & 120mm.   That's how I know I've personally shot over 3 tons (tonnes, Sir Chas.) of BP so far in my life.  And more every match!
 ;)

I'm also sure (or mostly) that artillery rounds are made the same way, all the way up to and including the 16 inch guns on the (now retired) battleships.  I think I heard that the 16" uses something like 8 pounds of BP as the ignition charge, but I'm not sure.



Yep, As I said earlier the U.S. Military is the only reason Goex is still in business. They use many tons of Goex BP a year.  I just can't think of any shoulder fired or hand weapons other than Dragons, Javelins, AT-4s, LAWs that use BP in the fusing or initiator.

The interesting thing that many don't realize is that one of the reasons BP is used is because of it's long term stability and isn't affected by temperature extremes as many other compounds would be. They know that the BP is going to go boom now, or twenty years from now and that is usually enough to make sure everything goes boom.  It's not used in some of the smaller trains like the grenades with a stable explosive like TNT.  It needs a higher order explosive to set off the main charge,  With larger rounds they have room for a booster like Tetryl which is initiated by the BP, the Tetryl actually sets off the Comp B (which is TNT and RDX), RDX or TNT.

~Mako
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on December 31, 2011, 12:01:57 AM
Mako - are you an old time contributor to the Anarchist's Cookbook?


You sure know how and why things go B*O*O*M !!!

 :D

... And I'll wager things are  rockin' at your home on the 4th of July and New Year's Eve!

 ;D
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: cpt dan blodgett on December 31, 2011, 12:31:38 AM
Wow, knew the charge in grenades was Comp B, but had always though there was a BP cap.
Getting smarter every day, thanks Mako.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Lucky Irish Tom on January 03, 2012, 09:07:18 AM
Gentlemen of the SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS) you will find the SHOTS child board under the Darksiders Den. The Marshal has graciously set up this child board for our Order so that all posts pertaining to SHOTS can be placed there and we can sticky items such as the member list at the beginning. I will work with Cut's to get this post moved to the new board.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: TwoWalks Baldridge on January 03, 2012, 09:38:17 AM
Gentlemen of the SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS) you will find the SHOTS child board under the Darksiders Den. The Marshal has graciously set up this child board for our Order so that all posts pertaining to SHOTS can be placed there and we can sticky items such as the member list at the beginning. I will work with Cut's to get this post moved to the new board.

Great news, thank you for doing this.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on January 03, 2012, 09:51:56 AM
Thank you Lucky Irish Tom.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: TwoWalks Baldridge on January 04, 2012, 09:44:06 AM
Posted a thread in the SHOTS baby board and I need every ones input.  We are trying to put together a certificate and there is a ruff draft posted, please take a moment to give suggestions.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Roosterman on January 04, 2012, 05:27:05 PM
Put me where you will. Started shooting and building BP guns in 1980. Started building BP guns full time in 1996. www.fowlingguns.com   Have always shot BP in all cowboy matches. Always hunted with BP firearms. Am I cool or what? ;D
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on January 04, 2012, 09:26:53 PM
Wahooooooooo - I will start looking at what may available already in  Pins and what can be made for decent prices.

PR

Lets Get SMOKEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on January 04, 2012, 09:32:25 PM
Put me where you will. Started shooting and building BP guns in 1980. Started building BP guns full time in 1996. www.fowlingguns.com   Have always shot BP in all cowboy matches. Always hunted with BP firearms. Am I cool or what? ;D


VERY cool, Roosterman!

As are the guns on your website!  I wish ...
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on January 05, 2012, 06:25:46 PM
Wahoooo had a suprise late gift show up for UPS this evening!

A 44 caliber cap and ball Rogers and Spencer pistol - feels good in the hand!

Hmmmm maybe i will shoot cap and ball and just do it two handed...then again I can get these bad boys converted too...

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on January 06, 2012, 08:33:20 AM
Wahoooo had a suprise late gift show up for UPS this evening!

A 44 caliber cap and ball Rogers and Spencer pistol - feels good in the hand!

Hmmmm maybe i will shoot cap and ball and just do it two handed...then again I can get these bad boys converted too...

PR


I really wish that the Rogers & Spencer had seen more use before the Bannerman purchase and sale.  The Military never did use very many (IF any at all) because of their late delivery after most of the (Un)Civil War was over.  A small few did get purchased by silly-villians, but few saw use before Bannerman sold the ones he/they had purchased, and if I remember correctly, that was very late in the century, and well past the introduction of cartridge firearms.  Most  of the R&S guns had been in Govt. storage since their delivery to Military warehouses in 1865.  St. George (and other more learned historians than I) can correct my times, but I believe that's what happened and when.

But I LOVE the look of them and I have heard good reports about their accuracy and dependability.

Congrats, Pony on your new "after Christmas" play-pretty!
 
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Bottom Dealin Mike on January 07, 2012, 09:26:13 PM
Nice to be considered a Master in a knowlegible group like this. Thanks guys. Let's have fun making smoke.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Wildcat Will on January 08, 2012, 07:14:23 AM
Not sure where I would be place in the order of SHOTS but I would like to be considered for membership.  I've shot the Holy Black for 7-8 years now and think I've influenced several others to partake in the joy of creating Smoke, Fire, BOOOOOOM and Stink.  I believe I had some input for starting the Fire & Brimstone Posse in SE Va.  Had some input in working toward the all Black powder match in West Point, Va which ultimately lead to the first Va State BP championship. 

Those with whom I've had the pleasure to shoot with will testify that I make substantial Smoke and do so with great joy.

Please consider me for admittance to the glorious order.

Thank you and smoke 'em if you got 'em.

YEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on January 08, 2012, 05:35:47 PM
Wild Will -

We'll darn sure smoke 'em because we got 'em, not if!

 ;D
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on January 10, 2012, 07:16:29 PM
Wildcat Will is one of my bestest Cowboy lets keep it black, with lots of Boom and Fire friends.

The concussion of his rounds and coughs from the crowds are something to behold.

He only made my sickness into the dark arts get stronger and defintely led me down the path of pure BOOM as I converted from shooting APP in all guns to, then APP in rifle and pistols and real FFG in shotgun, to my final enlightenment to shoot all FFFG and FFG.

Will - This ain't no library - WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YEHAWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

PR

Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Wildcat Will on January 11, 2012, 04:07:32 PM
ifn it aint no library then it let er rip.

YEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAA
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on January 28, 2012, 01:22:58 PM
Wahooooooooooooooo I now have 2 cases of DB BP in 2F - Yo VA F&B Posse - the powder truck will be at the shoot next weekend!

WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  YEHAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on January 30, 2012, 08:52:38 AM
To SHOTS,

I can happily report that the grandestholy black sickness is only growing in the VA F&B posse - members are now happily procurring and discussing shooting C&B together...

I think we will probably have folks shooting them gunfighter style, frontiersman style and me shooting Frontier Cart style (I really suck one handed).

I still need to procur another C&B revolver but I can happily say that all i need is a little practice and some 44 ball and 44 wonder wads...

Wahooooooooooo Yehawwwwww

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Wildcat Will on February 02, 2012, 05:31:54 AM
It was starting to get toooooo crowded in the FCGF category.  Figured it were time to move to Frontiersman.   ;D :o ;D
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on February 12, 2012, 07:06:53 AM
I have some emails out for quotes on pins and patches.

I will let the order know what kind of info I get back...

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Pony Racer on February 17, 2012, 09:09:06 AM
I should have a mock up of a pin soon.

I will forward the mock up to the SHOTS faithful and the start up costs.

I am willing to get this thing rolling and pay for the startup costs  and will wait to here from you on the mock up and if we like it initial order.

PR
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Dalton Masterson on February 24, 2012, 12:01:52 AM
I would like to submit my application into the order.
I have shot cap and ball pistols since I was 15, a .50 Hawken since 16, and since I joined Sass my cartridge guns are loaded to the max and shot one in each hand and sometimes from the hip. 
I often try to corrupt others into my thinking, and have succeeded on numerous occasions. Even my wife is coerced into enjoying the joys of the one true powder.
DM
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Steel Horse Bailey on February 24, 2012, 08:57:47 AM
Good on ya, Dalton!
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on January 04, 2014, 10:34:28 PM
Spammed?  Or hacked?  Anyway I guess it means "we have arrived!"

That is unless 7247 is outlining the Chinese invention of gunpowder.

Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: St8LineLeatherSmith on February 19, 2014, 10:00:54 AM
Please consider the Poly Grip Kids tenure of the Sublyme & Holy Order of Teh Soot as Brother Artisan by way of my Gonne Smything abilities for making long front stuffers  and making my own Holy Black ;D

OH and where do I get one of them thar certificates for wall hangin ???
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Sir Charles deMouton-Black on February 19, 2014, 08:50:34 PM
We started to compose a certificate, but then got sidelined with a learned discourse on the appropriate crest/seal;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,41472.25.html

We are looking for someone to finalyze the project.  How are you at this stuff St8Line?
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: St8LineLeatherSmith on February 20, 2014, 04:47:15 AM
I might be able to throw a PDF together
how bout I post all the seals in a thread then we can have a vote
or I can just pick one.
 whichever works for me
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: MacDoo on November 18, 2015, 11:47:27 PM
I respectively request consideration for membership in the Sublyme & Holy Order of the Soot.
Just starting to shoot the holy black with 2 51 navys, 66 in 45 colt and a 87.
MacDoo.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: hellgate on November 19, 2015, 01:36:10 PM
Welcome aboard MacDoo,
And thanks for waking up the thread.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: tyrel cody on November 19, 2015, 04:01:40 PM
Well, I thought I was already a member but I don't see my name. I've been shooting nothing but the Holy Black for a couple years now so count me as a fellow brother of the dark arts.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: St8LineLeatherSmith on November 21, 2015, 01:37:55 AM
MacDoo and Tyrel Cody

You have been officially ledgered into the Brotherhood Roster Here... http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,51347.0.html
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: Tennessee Jed on July 07, 2016, 11:30:55 AM
I, Tennessee Jed, on this the seventh of July in the year of our Lord Two Thousand and Sixteen, would like to add my name to the rolls of that ancient and honorable organization The Sublyme and Holy Order of the Soot.  I do at this time request to be named as a Brother at Armes.  I entered the rank of Novice and then elevated to the rank of Brother in the year or our Lord Nineteen Hundred and Ninety Eight.  I shortly thereafter (if I have interpreted the rankings correctly) attained the rank of Brother at Armes upon my expeditions into the backcountry of the Maryland colony whilst pursuing the bushytail scourge that continues to wreak havoc upon the mast crops of said colony.  To the great shame of myself, my family, and my descendants, I have only but recently reentered the world of the Holy Black.  To my credit, I had not crossed over to the heathenish apostates that believe in the heresy of "smokeless" powder. I merely ceased, for a period of my life, to obtain for myself the sacrament of the Holy Black.  I do hereby ask for the forgiveness of my sins, and admittance into the Black Order.
Title: Re: THE SUBLYME & HOLY ORDER OF THE SOOT (SHOTS)
Post by: hellgate on July 07, 2016, 12:33:38 PM
To the tune of Amazing Grace:

O Holy Black
How sweet the smell
That saved a wretch like Jed.....

Who once was lost
But now he's found
And woke this sleeping thread



Welcome home!