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Special Interests - Groups & Societies => BROW => Topic started by: Drydock on January 30, 2018, 06:24:47 PM

Title: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 30, 2018, 06:24:47 PM
Been enjoying my Chiappa .50-70 carbine so much, I decided I needed a Shiloh again.  This one will be a #3 with Shotgun butt, metal buttplate, Ebony pistol grip, bedded forend, pack-hardened action, 30" polished round barrel, .50-70.  Should run just under 12 pounds with sights mounted.  This one should be a lot of fun working up Croft Barkers 600 grain midrange loads.  

Current wait time is 18 months or so.  Take me that long to save up for it!  

Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: The Pathfinder on January 31, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
Sounds like you're again snagged by the bug. I've been really lucky in that I never had to give up my Shiloh to add to the stable. My 50-70 carbine is one of the old Garret Sharps, not sure how they compare to the Chiappas. Accidentally(?) acquired a Rolling block barrel in 50-70 once, and then started getting together the parts to build it into a rifle. Somehow I also ended up with a real New York Rolling Block, the Garret, a Spencer carbine in 56-50, and am on the lookout for a reasonable 50-70 Springfield. Somewhere along the line I seem to remember telling myself that the Shiloh and a Peabody in 45-70 were all I would ever need, now I seem to be addicted to bigger fatter cartridges. Oh well, according to my kids I'll get over it someday...and then they'll get to play with them while I rot in the ground. ;D
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 31, 2018, 04:58:04 PM
As my son has told me:  "You keep this one, dammit!"   Never really wanted to sell the others, but sometimes needs must . . .

I've got a pretty good write up on the Chiappa,, with pictures,  in the Barracks.  Its a keeper I think, and will be my field/skirmish Sharps.  The Shiloh will be reserved for precision work. 
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Blackpowder Burn on January 31, 2018, 05:32:53 PM
I recently got ahold of an original Sharps 50-70 carbine.  It was built in 1876 and has a 26" barrel, which, according to Sellers, is pretty unusual.  The rifle is overall in very sound condition with a good barrel.  Just starting to tinker with loads and looking forward to seeing what the old girl will do.

If she could only speak!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: PJ Hardtack on January 31, 2018, 05:33:27 PM
Like a lot of guns, it's hard to own just one Sharps.

I got my first Sharps, a Farmingdale Business Rifle in 45-70 by trading an original Hi Wall in 40-60 for it. Still have it and will not part with it. With it's heavy barrel, it's a joy to shoot from prone x-sticks.

It was followed by a Farmingdale .50 '63 Military Rifle the owner let go for $500! How could I say no? It was shortly joined by a Farmingdale .50 '63 SRC I traded an unused 6mm Rem for.

The Shiloh 50-70 Military Rifle and carbine were next, and the last was a No. 1 Sporter (pewter nose cap, etc.) in 45-70 I bought off Shiloh's 'ready rack'. I'm still getting to know this rifle. The only one I ordered specifically was the 50-70 carbine.

The 50-70 is an excellent calibre for CAS events and an even better hunting calibre. I don't think I'd want to go thru' what Croft Barker did to make a 50-70 into a viable long range rifle. The thought of launching 600 gr bullets holds utterly no appeal for me. I tried a few in my Military Rifle and sold the mould to a very happy owner of a British double rifle.

The agony of waiting for a custom ordered Shiloh Sharps is one of the most pleasant form of angst known to man.

Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 31, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
I'm not a real serious long range shooter, but I've got a gong on the farm I like to ring, and there is the 300 yard event at the GAF muster.  The .50-70-450 at 1200 fps is such a surprisingly mild feeling load in the carbine, that I want to experiment with a few 500/550/600s and see just how heavy I can go in a 12 pound rifle and still be comfortable.  

Ah, the angst, the glorious angst!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on February 01, 2018, 10:54:43 AM
I'm not a real serious long range shooter, but I've got a gong on the farm I like to ring, and there is the 300 yard event at the GAF muster.
...And of course you know that when you come up early you can play with the 400yd Steel to your heart's content as well. I'm also looking at trying to set up a 500 or 600yd target. That would be mostly for my scope sighted rifles, as I doubt my old eyes would be satisfactory past 400 with iron sights.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Kent Shootwell on February 01, 2018, 12:40:16 PM
Drydock, you need to rethink that chamber! Rather then have another of the same old thing and try to push big slugs from that tiny case get it cut to a 2 1/2" and do it right!  ;D You can always fill half the case with corn meal if you like but you can never get 110 grains in the pistol size 50/70 case. And don't go saying it costs to much, buying a Shiloh means you have the bucks. My 40 year old cases still hold a bullet fine.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: PJ Hardtack on February 01, 2018, 01:48:48 PM
The guys on the Shiloh site regard the 50-70 as "a good pistol round".

Maybe, but I don't enjoy being assaulted by my rifles. Detached retinas are not anything to aspire to.

A pal has a .50 "Alaskan" which he shoots poorly as it slaps the crap outta him with it's 600 gr bullets. It was once a 50-70 Shiloh 'Business Rifle' and he wishes he had kept it as such.

When he had it done, he was a member of the "mine is bigger than yours" club always having shot .62 calibre Hawkens of his own make.
Now in his maturity and with a bad shoulder, he has mellowed down to shooting 45-70s and has a really nice custom model being made up  by Shiloh.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on February 01, 2018, 05:06:28 PM
I had a .45-110 at one time.  If I had kept it, it would have eventually been rebarrelled to .45-70,

  I enjoy shooting the .50-70,   More powder is just more noise and more recoil IMHO.  If I was shooting 1000 yards with a 16 lb bull barrel I could see it.  But I like to carry my rifles, and anything over 70 grains powder needs too much weight for me.  Some of those folks get a little carried away with the "mine is bigger".   ;D

I once pulled the trigger on 9 16"/50 caliber rifles.  Nailed the target at 18 miles that day.  Less than 1 MOA.  I'm happy with that . . .
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Niederlander on February 01, 2018, 05:58:38 PM
Yeah, the 16"/50 pretty much wins the "mine is bigger than yours" argument any day............it IS a bit pricey to buy or shoot, though!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Kent Shootwell on February 02, 2018, 09:43:26 AM
Some place I read the want to try 500, 550, 600 bullets and see how heavy could a 12 pound rifle be managed. That sound like a "mine is bigger" statement. Nothing wrong with that but Sellers book claims that the 50 as loaded by Sharps ranged from 335 to 500 grain bullets. At 400 yards and less I would think the 425 grain slug pushed by 100 grains of powder would ring a gong. Might even kill a deer if you hit him just right!  ::) I do like the way you're having you new rifle set up. What grade of wood will it sport?
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on February 02, 2018, 10:37:35 AM
I once pulled the trigger on 9 16"/50 caliber rifles.  Nailed the target at 18 miles that day.  Less than 1 MOA.  I'm happy with that . . .
A 24' target at 18 miles is pretty impressive!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: PJ Hardtack on February 02, 2018, 10:58:36 AM
We called our Arty boys "12 Mile Snipers".  The guys with the 105s said they could almost guarantee a first rd hit given the correct grid reference.
Ans that was before GPS.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on February 02, 2018, 01:20:53 PM
"and still be COMFORTABLE".  Which is a shameful admission, as any John Wayne fan knows!  ("Just don't call me comfortable!"  Rio Lobo)  My .50-70-450 loads run just over 1200 fps out of my carbine, and while I have not shot a deer with it, you should see what it does to an armadillo!

Ah, the Rangkeeper Mk 8.  What a wonderful piece of machinery!   https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/gears-of-war-when-mechanical-analog-computers-ruled-the-waves/

I'm getting standard wood.  Good black walnut from here in Missouri.  I like the way it offsets the Pack colors, I like the grain feel of it.  I'll rub my own oils into it over time.  

Shiloh has a different, faster twist rate than the originals.  And I read somewhere "Little powder, much lead, shoots far, kills dead!"   8)
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: PJ Hardtack on February 02, 2018, 05:45:21 PM
Twist rates have gotten faster over the years. Used to be 1x22 '' was standard for 45-70 but now people are ordering 1x18 '' and 1x16 '' in order to stabilize heavier bullets.

My Shiloh #1 has standard wood which is actually quite nice. I wax all my guns with a bees wax polish as it protects the wood and waterproofs the steel.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on February 03, 2020, 05:39:07 PM
Yay!  "Pay up or die" letter arrived today!  ;D
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Tascosa Joe on February 03, 2020, 06:26:56 PM
You can call Bill Goodman and have your new Sharps in 3 or 4 months.  I am an 8" guy.  I am in awe of your 16X//50 Volkswagon guns i.e. the projectile weighs the same as an early Volks wagon.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on February 03, 2020, 07:16:35 PM
Yay!  "Pay up or die" letter arrived today!  ;D

Congratulations! Keep us updated.

CC Griff
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on February 03, 2020, 08:06:21 PM
Joe, that letter means my rifle goes into production in 3 weeks.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Tascosa Joe on February 04, 2020, 08:05:50 AM
Cool, Enjoy.  I set mine up to look like an early, rifle on the buffalo range.  If I had a do over, I would get a shotgun butt.   The military butt plate is very neat but it can be a bit painful.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on February 04, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
Cool, Enjoy.  I set mine up to look like an early, rifle on the buffalo range.  If I had a do over, I would get a shotgun butt.   The military butt plate is very neat but it can be a bit painful.

I'd be interested in seeing pictures of your rifle too.  What caliber/configuration did you choose?  I have one in the pipeline which I'm planning to set up similar to yours...

CC Griff
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Buckaroo Lou on February 04, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
In my humble opinion I don?t think a metal shotgun butt plate feels any less harsh than a metal crescent butt plate. What tames the recoil for me is the weight of the rifle and load configuration. I mainly shoot targets and occasionally hunt with my sharps rifles and whitetail deer and feral hogs have been the largest game I have taken. If I had the opportunity to hunt larger game I would but the opportunity has never presented itself, at least not with the sharp?s rifles. I have rifles with both shotgun style butt stocks and full crescent, and I haven?t found either one preferable over the other, but then I keep my loads in a comfortable range and they are .45-70 caliber rifles and I haven?t spent all day shooting BPCR competition. I always feel the recoil regardless of the style of butt plate when shooting from the bench, but when hunting I never notice it.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Ranch 13 on February 04, 2020, 01:10:32 PM
 For hunting purposes and on the occasion when you shoot from offhand and sitting I prefer the military butt. The problem with those come when you go into some match shooting and most of the shots if not all are from prone, the drop in the stock and that military butt will be absolutely painful after a short while.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on February 05, 2020, 05:58:10 AM
In my humble opinion I don?t think a metal shotgun butt plate feels any less harsh than a metal crescent butt plate.
When I was younger and considerably thinner I would have agreed with you. I'd hear other guys complaining about crescent butt plates and think that they must have been whimps or something. A couple of years ago I took up shooting my T/C Hawkens and Pedersoli Sharps again after something of a hiatus. After a few shots I noticed that the sharp end of the butt plates were digging into my shoulder. At first I was like, "What the heck? These guns never used to hurt this way!" Then I realized I'm a lot bigger than I used to be. Now I think that whether crescent butt plates are comfortable or not, has a lot to do with how they fit you.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Yellowhouse Sam on February 06, 2020, 08:18:56 AM
The 50-70.....a pistol round!!!????   The round has enough go for about anything on this continent!  No its trajectory doesn't match the big 44 and 45 rounds but it is gaining in popularity as folks have re-discovered how important the round was in the Indian Wars and on the range.  Very enjoyable to shoot and load for and if you just gotta have more oomph you can load 75gr of OE 1 1/2 behind a 470 or so PPB.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on February 06, 2020, 01:22:36 PM
I'm pretty sure that was a joke.   ;D  I spend a fair amount of time over there, and a few of those boys like to hang out over here as well.  It's well accepted that the .50 Gov't is a fine field round.  Not ideal for target shooting, but that's a matter of recoil, it's certainly accurate enough!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on February 06, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
The 50-70.....a pistol round!!!????
;D
.577 Now there's a pistol round!

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5148/w8zgIx.jpg)
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Yellowhouse Sam on February 06, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
I'm pretty sure that was a joke.   ;D  I spend a fair amount of time over there, and a few of those boys like to hang out over here as well.  It's well accepted that the .50 Gov't is a fine field round.  Not ideal for target shooting, but that's a matter of recoil, it's certainly accurate enough!

Yepper!  I spend about all my time over there on Shiloh forums.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on February 16, 2020, 03:52:39 PM
Well, got the letter saying they have my money, I get to live.  Now the last few weeks of waiting.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pistol Blaine on June 22, 2020, 01:02:00 PM
DryDock  Have  Shiloh use the slower twist (1X30 I think)  Easier on the shoulder with 450 to 500+ bullets.  My Military rifle is just about perfect for target and hunting with this twist rate.  You really will not like shooting those very heavy bullets much at all.  450 525 grain bullets will put down any North American animal.  Good target and gong shooting round.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on June 22, 2020, 07:57:10 PM
Kirk advised the 1/26 as it will shoot everything well that you can think to stuff in it.  That's also the same rate in my present carbine, and that has been very comfortable for me to shoot with 450s, and quite accurate at the Musters I've shot with it.

Rifle has been delayed, (go figger) was hoping I'd have it for the Muster, hopefully in the next month or so.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Ranch 13 on June 22, 2020, 10:18:27 PM
 I have an original 74 50-70 that shipped from the factory in October of 72, it has a 26 inch barrel and a 26 inch twist.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Yellowhouse Sam on July 21, 2020, 05:22:38 PM
You might even consider getting a 50 2.0.....thats right, a 2 inch case and it was an original  chambering.   Probably give 8-10 grains more powder capacity.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on July 21, 2020, 08:21:47 PM
Nah, I'm set up for .50 Gubmint, .50 Gubmint it shall be!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on September 30, 2020, 12:22:13 PM
Called Shiloh to update my contact info, they said the rifle was on the final assembly rack, should be ready in a week or two.   ;D
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Tascosa Joe on October 01, 2020, 10:56:47 AM
Cool
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on October 02, 2020, 10:48:26 AM
Lucinda called, it's on the way!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on October 02, 2020, 01:32:52 PM
Lucinda called, it's on the way!

I'll meet you at your house to check it out!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on October 02, 2020, 01:38:52 PM
Looking back at the posts, did you order this in January, 2018?  Is that a 34 month wait? I was hearing closer to 18 months...
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on October 02, 2020, 03:07:40 PM
Mine is a round barrel, those get made when enough orders justify the set up.  Covid added several months as well.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on October 09, 2020, 11:02:17 AM
Picked it up today!  Apologies for the poor camera.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on October 09, 2020, 11:21:09 AM
That's purty
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on October 09, 2020, 06:34:21 PM
The pack hardening on this thing reminds me of pictures of interstellar nebulae. 


Fanciful, ain't I?
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on October 12, 2020, 06:18:53 AM
Well, I'm often accused of having my head in the clouds, but I doubt I'd have made that comparison.

...Now that you mention it...
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: ndnchf on October 12, 2020, 03:04:48 PM
Congrats - thats a beauty!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 01, 2021, 11:18:15 AM
Sent my $600 gummit check to MVA for a "B" sight with #1 mounts.   https://montanavintagearms.com/scopes/
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 25, 2021, 01:52:32 PM
And the whole rig.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: ndnchf on January 26, 2021, 07:56:38 AM
Nice set up.  My aging eyes are liking that scope!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 26, 2021, 08:44:19 AM
It's an excellent scope, surprisingly light and very precise.  Combined with the excellent rifle and well loaded ammunition, I can set a paper plate out at 200 yards and pick where on the plate I want the group. 

I like it best for load development, then I can put the Tang sight on for field work.  The mounts are great, hold zero on and off the rifle.  Though I can see as I get older this will spend more and more time on the rifle. Reports from the BPCR guys say it's plenty tough.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pitspitr on January 29, 2021, 01:14:11 PM
It's an excellent scope, surprisingly light and very precise.  Combined with the excellent rifle and well loaded ammunition, I can set a paper plate out at 200 yards and pick where on the plate I want the group. 

I like it best for load development, then I can put the Tang sight on for field work.  The mounts are great, hold zero on and off the rifle.  Though I can see as I get older this will spend more and more time on the rifle. Reports from the BPCR guys say it's plenty tough.
...And you should be able to put it on your 1903 and have a WWI era sniper replica.  ;D
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on January 29, 2021, 02:15:03 PM
The thought had occurred to me, but I'd have to cut up an upper handguard for it,  and drill for the blocks.  Not sure I want to do that to an unaltered rifle.

 Bet it would work good on one of my cut down Krags though.   ;D
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Pay Dirt Norvelle on August 12, 2022, 10:51:04 PM
My pay or else letter arrived on Wednesday.  I Called Shiloh Sharps yesterday and gave them my CC information.  Maybe in a month or so.  ;D I put my order in about one and one-half years ago.
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on August 13, 2022, 03:46:44 AM
Watcha getting?
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Dave T on August 13, 2022, 11:54:14 AM
My Shiloh Sharps only took about a week to get. I bought it used on Guns International. It is a Business Rifle chambered for the 50 2-1/2 Sharps Straight cartridge. As an early Business Rifle it is very plain with a round 28 "barrel, CC frame, plain wood, with the military butt.

With a 470g soft cast bullet over 90g of 1.5F Olde Eynsford, it kicks so bad setting at a shooting bench I can't handle it. Much easier on the shoulder and face (smile) off-hand or over crossed sticks, my preferred way to shoot it.

I had a 10' gong built by a welder who said it would stand up to anything. The "Big Fifty" knocks it "arse over teakettle" out to 100 yards. Gonna have to find a really durable gong to take to the desert as the public range where I shoot only allows paper. Hearing a gong ring is so much more satisfying than looking through binoculars for a hole in a paper target.

Dave

Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on August 13, 2022, 12:58:41 PM
I just passed the 3-year mark from when I placed my order. I received my letter asking for final payment in January. I stopped by Shiloh in May when I was in the area and asked for an update. I was told that it was still "a couple of months" away from completion. I am still waiting "patiently"...

Griff
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on August 13, 2022, 02:08:16 PM
Good things come to he who waits. ;D
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on August 13, 2022, 07:37:52 PM
Good things come to he who waits. ;D

Absolutely!
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Coal Creek Griff on August 20, 2022, 01:32:47 AM
I just passed the 3-year mark from when I placed my order. I received my letter asking for final payment in January. I stopped by Shiloh in May when I was in the area and asked for an update. I was told that it was still "a couple of months" away from completion. I am still waiting "patiently"...

Griff

I got the call from Shiloh on Thursday. I'm hoping to pick mine up next week. I'll probably start a new thread when I get it home.

Griff
Title: Re: Shiloh Sharps
Post by: Drydock on September 28, 2022, 06:06:34 AM
Spent a pleasant afternoon out at the farm checking sight settings for the KVC buffalo shoot in October.  Used the scope last year, going to try the Soule this time.

Every time I pull this rifle from it's case I just marvel at how good it looks, feels and shoots.