Author Topic: Goals for first local match?  (Read 1770 times)

Online Books OToole

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2020, 08:30:21 AM »
The KVC experimented with a handicap scoring for single-shot rifles.  I think we decided on half of the rounds of a lever gun plus one. 

Example:  If the lever guns are shooting 10, the single shot would shoot 6.


My goal for my first CAS match (2004) was not to finish last.  I believe I was 13 of 15.
(My goal for my second NCOWS National match was to finish in the middle.  I was 7 of 15.)


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Offline Robert Swartz

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2020, 08:39:58 AM »
I guess your local posse could make a local exception, but NCOWS rules state pistol caliber rifle.

Yes, these are for local matches only. Exceptions are made for those that shoot at the club. A good example, one of the BP shooters occasionally shoots a ML shotgun, two shots only. Takes the miss on 3 or more shots if the scenario calls for it. A couple of the older club members think it's great that some of us are trying shoot BP. I had some loading stands I'd built out of scraps that I donated to the club. We're also planning to put in some loading tables dedicated for BP shooters. Regarding our 45 70 loads. One of my old buddy's that has been shooting with the Cowboys for a good while. Occasionally shoots his Winchester 45 70. On his advise came the idea for the gallery loads, reduced powder with a wad filler. I'm downsizing to a 300 grain bullet versus a 405. I'm also shooting my SAA with BP loads. I don't have illusions, just plan to show up and hit some targets. 
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Offline Robert Swartz

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2020, 09:03:27 AM »
The KVC experimented with a handicap scoring for single-shot rifles.  I think we decided on half of the rounds of a lever gun plus one. 

Example:  If the lever guns are shooting 10, the single shot would shoot 6.


My goal for my first CAS match (2004) was not to finish last.  I believe I was 13 of 15.
(My goal for my second NCOWS National match was to finish in the middle.  I was 7 of 15.)


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I believe the local club rule reduces the target requirement to half for a single shot rifle.

PS: I had lots of fun. And I'm still doing it 16 years later.
"Copperhead Bob"
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Offline Ridge Runner

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2020, 10:57:12 AM »
If you shoot in the Pistoleer class, no need to shoot more than 2 ML shotgun rounds.

Offline River City John

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2020, 11:35:19 AM »
For what it's worth, I played with a baby rolling-block as my main match rifle for a season. I was doing a Navy impression that year, and the baby rolling block, in .45 Colt, was the closest I could get to a Navy carbine, although not in the original's .50 calibre, nor barrel length.
It was great fun, and really kept me on the ball as far as maintaining target order awareness. Trick was to not drop it from your shoulder too far when working the action and gently "ram" each cartridge up to, but not past, the rim extractor. I loaded the loose rounds from a CW pistol cartridge box on my belt.
 
Drawback was, though I felt I was getting fairly fast once I got into the rhythm, I had one club send me a hatchet letter requesting I don't come back with it. The accusation was I was trying to slow their match down.

RCJ
 
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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #25 on: Today at 08:22:25 AM »

Offline OklaTom

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2020, 12:25:51 PM »
One thing I see wrong here, 1873 Springfield, not a main match gun! Need a lever action to complete in NCOWS! You can use the 1873 Springfield in long range, but no category cap & ball revolvers with 1873 Springfield.

The rules do not specify a lever action. Pump action and single shots are fine. What it does specify is pistol caliber. Now, strictly speaking, that leaves out 32-20, 38-40, and 44-40, since those are technically rifle calibers that pistols got chambered for. But lets leave off the splitting hairs on that. Springfield, Sharps, Krags, and so on were not offered in what we consider “pistol calibers” and may not be used in Regional or National Shoots. Whether they are allowed in a local match, well that is up to the Judge of the hosting posse. We aren’t shooting for a Cadillac here. However, if the local Judge allows it, you would have to prove that the ammunition you are shooting has been loaded down to ballistics of the pistol calibers rifles. This is to protect the integrity of the targets and bystanders since you are not shooting at long range. Loading them down to that will be a great challenge. Not every club has AR500 targets. You do not want to pound them. Just loading down to the velocities specified in the rules is not really enough for shooting at the distance of a main match rifle target. For instance, a 45-70 is still slinging almost twice as much lead down range. So, I would discourage the use of those rifle calibers, even downloaded. However, as I said, use at a local match is up to the local Judge.
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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2020, 12:43:10 PM »
RCJ  said " ...Drawback was, though I felt I was getting fairly fast once I got into the rhythm, I had one club send me a hatchet letter requesting I don't come back with it. The accusation was I was trying to slow their match down.

John

I would have absolutely no problem NOT coming back .........ever.

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Offline Montana Slim

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2020, 01:15:30 PM »
My memory ain't what it once was, but I'm recalling the words "repeating" carbine or rifles as a requirement listed in the Tally Book. At least for "Pistoleer" category, my most common entry. IMO, any rifle can physically reloaded on the clock, but only a magazine fed one would be considered a true repeater.

Seems odd to me that the Pistoleer category would be the only one mandated to use a repeater.

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Offline OklaTom

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2020, 01:24:23 PM »
My memory ain't what it once was, but I'm recalling the words "repeating" carbine or rifles as a requirement listed in the Tally Book. At least for "Pistoleer" category, my most common entry. IMO, any rifle can physically reloaded on the clock, but only a magazine fed one would be considered a true repeater.

Seems odd to me that the Pistoleer category would be the only one mandated to use a repeater.

Slim

You are correct for Pistoleer. That is the only place a repeater is specified. One does not have to be entered in Pistoleer class to shoot percussion pistols. They can be used in any category.
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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2020, 01:41:35 PM »
For instance, a 45-70 is still slinging almost twice as much lead down range. So, I would discourage the use of those rifle calibers, even downloaded.
The original US Army .45-70 indoor gallery load used a primer, 4 -7.5 gr. FFFg and a .454 RB, deep seated.  I'm not sure what the energy of that load would be, but I'm pretty sure that even out of a long barrel it would be less than most BP pistols. Doesn't even produce noticeable smoke.

There's gotta be one in every crowd, right OK Tom?  ;D
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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #30 on: Today at 08:22:25 AM »

Offline OklaTom

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2020, 04:20:50 PM »
The original US Army .45-70 indoor gallery load used a primer, 4 -7.5 gr. FFFg and a .454 RB, deep seated.  I'm not sure what the energy of that load would be, but I'm pretty sure that even out of a long barrel it would be less than most BP pistols. Doesn't even produce noticeable smoke.

There's gotta be one in every crowd, right OK Tom?  ;D

That would work.
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Offline Robert Swartz

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2020, 07:18:40 PM »
The original US Army .45-70 indoor gallery load used a primer, 4 -7.5 gr. FFFg and a .454 RB, deep seated.  I'm not sure what the energy of that load would be, but I'm pretty sure that even out of a long barrel it would be less than most BP pistols. Doesn't even produce noticeable smoke.

There's gotta be one in every crowd, right OK Tom?  ;D

What we've come up with, 45 70 Govt, 40 grains Goex FFG, a .45 fibre wad or cookie, 300 grain lubed Meister bullet. One of the guys has shot the course with this combo except with a 405 grain bullet. I've shot some of these targets with a 47 Musketoon, .69 cal, .672 patched roundball, 75 grains FFFG Goex.  I may build some of those roundball 45 70 loads next time. That might be interesting. No, this isn't a plan for national matches. Just want to go have some fun. maybe start putting something together for a GAF match in the future,
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Offline Whitehorse Lane

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2020, 09:37:47 AM »
We had at least three .45-70s at yesterday's shoot including Robert, who shot pretty darn well with his Springfield. Actually VERY damn well

They shot half the rifle targets we lever gun guys did.

No noticeable delay in the stages, and the targets were not brutalized. It was fun watching, now I want one darn it !

Now Bob, we need to work on that pistol shooting... you ain't Quigley yet in tht regard
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Offline River City John

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2020, 09:43:11 AM »
We had at least three .45-70s at yesterday's shoot including Robert, who shot pretty darn well with his Springfield. Actually VERY damn well

They shot half the rifle targets we lever gun guys did.

No noticeable delay in the stages, and the targets were not brutalized. It was fun watching, now I want one darn it !

Now Bob, we need to work on that pistol shooting... you ain't Quigley yet in tht regard

"I said I had no use for 'em, not that I didn't know how to shoot 'em."
"I was born by the river in a little tent, and just like the river I've been running ever since." - Sam Cooke
"He who will not look backward with reverence, will not look forward with hope." - Edmund Burke
". . .freedom is not everything or the only thing, perhaps we will put that discovery behind us and comprehend, before it's too late, that without freedom all else is nothing."- G. Warren Nutter
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Offline Robert Swartz

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2020, 10:12:43 AM »
We had at least three .45-70s at yesterday's shoot including Robert, who shot pretty darn well with his Springfield. Actually VERY damn well

They shot half the rifle targets we lever gun guys did.

No noticeable delay in the stages, and the targets were not brutalized. It was fun watching, now I want one darn it !

Now Bob, we need to work on that pistol shooting... you ain't Quigley yet in tht regard
No I'd say with pistol, I was closer to being Don Knott's in "Shakiest Gun in the West. Like I said, I haven't shot a pistol a handful of times in the last 30 years.
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Offline bushwhacker

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2020, 04:27:28 PM »
The real important thing is did you have fun.
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Offline Robert Swartz

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Re: Goals for first local match?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2020, 08:53:35 PM »
The real important thing is did you have fun.
Bushwhacker

Yup......!
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