Author Topic: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.  (Read 251 times)

Online Baltimore Ed

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NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« on: October 09, 2019, 09:07:49 pm »
Found a very nice Cadet unfortunately in .32-20 but for a good price. Only cosmetic blemish is a chip at the top of the stock at the recvr. She has a beautiful bore. Finally picked it up late today so I haven?t done anything with it other than install a sling and load 6 rds of 32-20 with some 100 gr .315 dia lead bullets. Tomorrow I?ll try shooting her. BTW, I?m open to loading suggestions.

          Let the experimentations in reloading a .310 Martini chambered to .32-20 begin! Oh boy.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 09:25:09 pm by Baltimore Ed »
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Offline Major 2

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2019, 05:31:36 am »
unfortunately in .32-20  ?  ???

It is a favorite caliber for me ... 5 guns in the caliber 73 Winchester , Marlin , Colt SAA  S&W hand eject and Uberti Cattleman

I use a BP lube bullet cast by Mark Whyte ...I'm at work and the particulars are at home

« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 08:17:44 am by Major 2 »
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Online pony express

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2019, 06:49:11 am »
I have 3 32-20s, but I don't have any favorite loads handy. A case full of 3-f  and a BP lubed cast bullet would be a good choice. It's what I use for the '89 Marlin. I used to use a moderate charge of Unique for my SAA, don't remember the exact load. I try to avoid getting the BP loads mixed up with smokeless, since the S&W DA is kinda hard to clean BP out of...

Usual bullet diameter is .312-.313, but I don't know what the bore dimensions are for a .310 Cadet.

Beware that 32-20 cases are pretty thin and fragile, easy to buckle if they hit the bottom of die, or hit the expander ball crooked. Excessive crimping also can buckle them. Last thing-Remington and Winchester don't agree on case length, they're about .020 different. I'm not sure which way Starline went on length.

Online Baltimore Ed

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2019, 03:24:21 pm »
Started messing with it today. The largest lead bullet that I have [for this application] is .314. So I fire formed 50 rds today. Used 4 gr of bullseye and a 100 gr .314 lead bullet. No accuracy to speak of. After forming, the .32-20 brass has expanded to .320 inside neck dia and eliminated the shoulder on the brass. I have ordered some .321 dia 150 gr lead bullets today so when they come in I?ll try them in my formed brass. The formed brass still chambers fine. There?s no point in resizing brass back to 32-20 so a larger bullet is the obvious way to go. I have found some hornady 125 gr HP .323 [8mm] jacketed bullets on line. Anybody here shoot jacketed bullets in these Kangaroo rifles?
Another question for the forum, how did the Aussies carry their ammo for the Cadets? Just in their pockets or was there some kind of pouch or bandolier? In my research I?ve read that these rifles were issued to home guard troops but it had to be disheartening to get a kid sized single shot rifle knowing the Japs had their huge 7.7 arisaka rifles.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 03:40:38 pm by Baltimore Ed »
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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2019, 04:24:02 pm »
After forming, the .32-20 brass has expanded to .320 inside neck dia and eliminated the shoulder on the brass.

Could a prior owner have reamed it out to a *straight case* ?

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Online Baltimore Ed

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2019, 04:36:08 pm »
Prof M, who knows what this poor old rifle has been through. From NSW to NC. Two continents, how many owners, how many shooters? It sure isn?t a .310 Cadet or a 32-20 anymore. The gun closes up nice and tight on .32-20 brass. All 50 rds went off fine. Here?s what they look like. The shoulder is just about gone. The PO who altered it may have enlarged the chamber to eliminate the need for heeled bullets by making the case a bigger diameter. The bbl is stamped 32-20 with a * on the flat in front of the kangaroo but the original 310 caliber marking is still on the bbl too.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 07:30:08 pm by Baltimore Ed »
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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2019, 09:04:40 am »
I think that I may have figured out my Cadets unusual chambering. I think that the chamber has been cut for a .32-40, at least to the depth of a .32-20 case. The measurements match up. It would allow you to use a non heel base bullet. A set of .32-40 dies could easily be cut down to work with the shorter case. More r&d needed.
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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2019, 09:42:29 am »
There's a .310 barrel on e-Bay right now.  Might be the easiest fix.
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Offline Galen

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2019, 12:08:12 pm »
the 310 cadet uses a .320 bullet the case is very similar to the 32/20, but a bit shorter. back in the day when you buy a cadet for $7.50 they were sold as 32-20.

Offline greyhawk

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2019, 08:06:39 pm »
Started messing with it today. The largest lead bullet that I have [for this application] is .314. So I fire formed 50 rds today. Used 4 gr of bullseye and a 100 gr .314 lead bullet. No accuracy to speak of. After forming, the .32-20 brass has expanded to .320 inside neck dia and eliminated the shoulder on the brass. I have ordered some .321 dia 150 gr lead bullets today so when they come in I?ll try them in my formed brass. The formed brass still chambers fine. There?s no point in resizing brass back to 32-20 so a larger bullet is the obvious way to go. I have found some hornady 125 gr HP .323 [8mm] jacketed bullets on line. Anybody here shoot jacketed bullets in these Kangaroo rifles?
Another question for the forum, how did the Aussies carry their ammo for the Cadets? Just in their pockets or was there some kind of pouch or bandolier? In my research I?ve read that these rifles were issued to home guard troops but it had to be disheartening to get a kid sized single shot rifle knowing the Japs had their huge 7.7 arisaka rifles.

Home guard and trainer rifles - the troops that went face to face with the japs had 303 smellie, dont think they were at a disadvantage !!

Online Baltimore Ed

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2019, 07:45:12 pm »
Here?s my cerrosafe casting. The .320 bullet is one that I pulled from an old .32-40 that I found in my junk cartridge box. I used that to measure where to put my patch to plug the bbl.  I chambered the dummy round and then shoved my patch into the muzzle until it stopped then removed the dummy round. The only thing you can see on the casting is whats left of the 32-20 shoulder. There is plenty of freebore in this bbl as the patch was in front of the bullet in the bbl but theres no sign of rifling. Its got a big chamber, not a 32-20 chamber for sure.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 08:20:02 pm by Baltimore Ed »
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Online pony express

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2019, 11:21:10 pm »
Here's the measurements for a .310 cadet:

Type
Rifle
Place of origin
United Kingdom
Production history
Designer
W.W. Greener
Designed
1900
Manufacturer
Westley Richards and others
Specifications
Case type
Rimmed, Straight
Bullet diameter
.316 to .320 groove
Neck diameter
.323 in (8.2 mm)
Shoulder diameter
.342 in (8.7 mm)
Base diameter
.354 in (9.0 mm)
Rim diameter
.405 in (10.3 mm)
Rim thickness
.038 in (0.97 mm)
Case length
1.075 in (27.3 mm)
Overall length
1.492 in (37.9 mm)
Rifling twist
20"
Primer type
Small rifle
Ballistic performance
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 11:23:20 pm by pony express »

Online pony express

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2019, 12:19:06 am »
Comparing the dimensions you showed to the ones I posted for .310 Cadet and to .32-20 dimensions, it looks like the only real difference is the length of the chamber, and location of the shoulder. But the BORE is still dimensioned for a .323 bullet. I think if you try to load a .323 bullet in the cases you have, it won't chamber. What I would try with it is this: try using .32-20 dies to re-size and expand case necks, then load with a heel based bullet. You probably won't be able to use the .32-20 SEATING die, because the bullet will be too big to enter. Maybe they will "thumb seat" or if too tight, use something like a 9mm seater die to seat the bullet. Here's some articles I found online, and a bullet available from Buffalo Arms:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/ultimate-310-cadet-and-32-20-cadet-reloading-topic-t8125.html

Here's a couple of recent threads from Rapid Rob at Surplus Rifle Forum:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3266
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3507

Buffalo Arms has a cast bullet:
https://www.buffaloarms.com/323-120-grain-cast-lead-heeled-bullet-20-1-alloy-for-310-cadet-unlubed-box-of-50-323120

Online Baltimore Ed

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2019, 07:57:33 pm »
My 170 gr bullets finally arrived. After a few setbacks these are what the loads look like. The first 10 grouped about 6 in at 30 yds. I know that 170 is heavy for 1-20 twist but I?ll play with them some. Might have to mill a little off the bottom of the bullets to lighten them up.
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Online Baltimore Ed

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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2019, 09:07:47 am »
Here are my cut down 170 gr bullets. I used my band saw to cut them at the lower grease groove and then the mini mill to make them uniform. They weigh about 130 gr. Don?t have time to shoot them now, will see what they do this afternoon. I?m using a 30 carbine sizer for my fire formed 32-20 brass, a 8mm bullet in an old 8mm military load to bell the case mouths. I am having to run the loaded rounds through a 30 carbine sizer again  to get them to chamber all the way.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 09:19:24 am by Baltimore Ed »
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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 11:04:20 am »
Progress...4.0 gr Bullseye, 130?gr boolit, 30 yds off my rest, 10 rds. Big improvement, now to tweek my load. I might add some nail polish or white out on the hard to see front sight but I am going to the optometrist today for a checkup. Maybe that will help. The high left hole was a clean bbl flier.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 11:08:02 am by Baltimore Ed »
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Re: NSW Martini Cadet in .32-20.
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 12:24:53 pm »
Here?s 20 more, the top 10and flier are the 130 gr .323 cut down from the 170s, the lower 10 are 150 gr .321 from the Western Bullet Co. All were loaded with 3.0 gr of Bullseye. I put a dab of white out on the front sight which helped a bunch.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 12:28:05 pm by Baltimore Ed »
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