Author Topic: Alliant Black MZ sub powder  (Read 1352 times)

Offline riflee

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Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« on: January 12, 2019, 10:54:59 am »
Why have I not heard anything bout the fairly new black powder sub sold by Alliant Powder? Called Black MZ. One granulation. Corrosion free. Not expensive.  Works good.


I tested it in cap&ballers revolvers and it does good. Consistent. Peppy. Low fouling. No lube stuff needed unless you gots ta have it.

Sold in stores on the self.

Don't get me wrong. Not Recommending it over the real black but it's worth playing with.  Alliant Black MZ.  Made by Pioneer to Alliant specs.


You can shoot one day. Wipe the gun some and not worry bout corrosion and shoot the next day without the entire clean up thing. I tried it. Shot the gun multi days in a row without the entire clean up and let the gun sit several days after and...no corrosion.


On the front of the black jug it comes in it says," invariably non corrosive".
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 09:05:24 am by riflee »

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 11:51:12 am »
Well ....... I don't really know.  It makes no sense.  There has been no extensive drum beating not soap boxing for the most part.  Several of my cohorts in crime and my self have had excellent results with the stuff.  Really excellent results.  Some of my acquaintances have also made public mention.  Of course, the champions of "Real Black" immediately jump up with ridicule and Poo Poo any and all Subs.  Usually they roll their derision of ANY subs into one long blast at Black MZ.  Pointless.

I personally really like it.  I shoot Black MZ and APP exclusively.  A quick CAVEAT:  I'm lazy.  I don't like "Grease" and don't like having to mess with Grease.  Both APP and Black MZ shoot without ANY lubes a all.  Just load and go.  Really simple.  As most whom have read my past stuff know, I shoot three and a half inch barrel Cap Guns as my Main Match guns.  With APP 3f.  No Grease.  No Grease cookies.  No glob over the Ball/Bullet.  Just load and go.  Same same for a multi day match.  I don't bother to clean guns in the Hotel between days of shooting.  Just load and go.  My only concession to common practice is a Nipple Pic.

I ever mention I HATE auto correct
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 05:13:11 pm by Coffinmaker »

Offline Dick Dastardly

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 02:32:32 pm »
FWIW, I prefer Genuine Powder, make that Black Powder.  That said, there are several reasons to shoot subs.  The first one that comes to mind is availability.  Ok, I'm a minimalist and I prefer simplicity and long standing tradition.  Also, I enjoy the flames and smoke of the real thing.

However, SASS allows subs as black powder and that's good enough for me.  Shoot what you will but always remember.  Shooting is supposed to be fun and not an argument.  Honor the choices, hold center and shoot well.  We're all in this together.

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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 04:48:26 pm »
I've been sold on BlackMZ for three years now.  For the same reasons others have listed.  That's even though about every brand and grade of real black powder is only 20 minutes away at Grafs. 

Bullets is the big cost saver for me.  I collect lead in my bullet traps and cast my bullets with Lee 6 cavity molds.   Then run them through a Lee sizing die - no lube.

I've got some great shootin' buddies that shoot nothing but full case loads  of real back in 44WCF or 45 Colt.   They give me some light ribbing from time to time but my BlackMZ loads are every bit as stout and produce at least as much smoke as their real bkack powder loads. We like to shoot on the same posse. 

Offline hellgate

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 04:57:02 pm »
The Black MZ smells like APP, is black in color and of approximately 2F granulation.It clumps upon sitting like any sub (other than 777) I have ever used. I enjoy the BOOM & sparks of the real thing but don't mind others shooting it in Plainsman matches who shake out their perCUSSIN' revolvers for a once or twice a year frolic. So far they have few if any misfires and are quite happy with the price & performance. To me it is APP with fewer "fines" (dust). It sells around here for just under 10 (TEN!) bucks a pound at Sportsman's Warehouse so I find it hard to resist and buy it for use in the shotgun.  Everywhere else it costs double that. It has about the same umph (scientific term) as real BP.

Now, another item on Black MZ: I've hear rumors that it will soon be discontinued. Some have said yea and others have said nay. I read/heard say someone spoke to an Alliant rep and he confirmed its eventual disappearance. Every time I get to Sptsmns Warehouse it is still on the shelf @~$10. Anybody heard anything for sure?
"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

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Offline riflee

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 09:29:49 am »
I'm with Dick Dastardly and what he mentioned. Debate is good and criticism is a little ugly. :'(

I expected criticism and got none. You Hombres are alright.

I like Black MZ for a change up with the real black. Example...…..

I tested it (black MZ) in my beloved "Pietta" faux ivory grip, faux engraved, faux case hardened, good shootin 1851 Navy. My neighbor shot some shots too and he isn't really a gun shooter. He two handedly hit most shots on a Marlboro cig pack at about 45 yards.

I did well myself. I liked the pep of the powder and the consistency of it shot to shot. Made my Pie Eater Navy really show off that first day trying some new powder. I expected to be disappointed. I guess Black MZ being made by Pioneer to Alliant Powder specs. is a good recipe.


I use Black MZ when I'm wanting to bone up on my shootin and have a million things to get done and places to go and short on time and ENERGY. I wipe the guns up barrel and cylinder and outside and set it aside to take a few more shots the next day. I like the low level of anxiety about corrosion.


Anywhoooo….my squirrel rifle I made hums a nice tune using Black MZ. Squirrels beware I'm a-coming and when you see me you better step aside!  :o 

NOW....when I go up the hill behind the house to deer hunt in my back yard  ;D  I will always have Goex FFg 75gr. and a 500gr. bullet in my 45/70 barreled Hawken rifle. ;)

Offline Dave T

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 03:27:51 pm »
I too like Black MZ because it is so easy to get and inexpensive (Sportsman's Warehouse). Also like the very reduced fouling. My tightly fitted USFA revolvers bind up after a second cylinder of black powder but multiple cylinders of Black MZ and they still cock and turn easily.

So, I'd like to hear the answer about it going out of production. Truth or internet rumor. Inquiring minds want to know.

Dave

Offline Bunk

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 09:42:46 pm »
Howdy Gun Slingers,
First let me be clear I am a dyed in the wool percussion arms Gun Powder shooter dating back to when I opened a can of Du Pont Orange Extra Gun Powder and used it in my 1851 (made in Hartford Ct.) Colt Navy.

I suffered through the extensive cleaning needed with corrosive caps and enjoyed the day Winchester came out with the stainless non-corrosive caps.

Now from time to time I do shoot Black MZ or the American Pioneer brand labeled Jim Shokey’s Gold because of the advice and urging of a well-known gun plumber and I do like it. The Alliant product was made by APP but has a different color.

Makes a big boom, clouds of smoke and is easy to clean perhaps slightly easier than GOEX but not by very much. It does have the advantage of not needing grease over or under the bullet. The residue is no more corrosive that Gun Powder unlike some of the other so called substitutes.

I like it but when I run out, I will go back to real Gun Powder. Unfortunately, there are no Sportsman’s Warehouse stores in Texas and with hazmat APP costs a little more than Gun Powder.

That is my opinion, I do not want to start an argument.

Load ‘em heavy boys, the air a’comin’
Bunk

Offline Major 2

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 05:21:21 am »
Howdy Gun Slingers,
First let me be clear I am a dyed in the wool percussion arms Gun Powder shooter dating back to when I opened a can of Du Pont Orange Extra Gun Powder and used it in my 1851 (made in Hartford Ct.) Colt Navy.

I suffered through the extensive cleaning needed with corrosive caps and enjoyed the day Winchester came out with the stainless non-corrosive caps.

Now from time to time I do shoot Black MZ or the American Pioneer brand labeled Jim Shokey’s Gold because of the advice and urging of a well-known gun plumber and I do like it. The Alliant product was made by APP but has a different color.

Makes a big boom, clouds of smoke and is easy to clean perhaps slightly easier than GOEX but not by very much. It does have the advantage of not needing grease over or under the bullet. The residue is no more corrosive that Gun Powder unlike some of the other so called substitutes.

I like it but when I run out, I will go back to real Gun Powder. Unfortunately, there are no Sportsman’s Warehouse stores in Texas and with hazmat APP costs a little more than Gun Powder.

That is my opinion, I do not want to start an argument.

Load ‘em heavy boys, the air a’comin’
Bunk



Ditto to most above ... ( I still have some of the old empty cans)
 
Later on I had also used "CLEAN SHOT"  before APP got slapped with the "name" infringement suit. )

Then the same gun plumber & another friend convinced me to try APP again, a couple of years ago...though in my case the Jim Shockey' GOLD™ logo product.
It is what the Florida Sportsman’s Warehouse carried, however Sportsman’s Warehouse has gone belly up here, in fact the powder I got was the last 3 cans they had .


I got a single can of Alliant's version Black MZ, at Tenoroc Shooting Sports, last they had in stock , and that may well be the last I'll ever see.... but I'm not quite ready to attest to the rumors that APP is closing doors  :-\

I have BP
 


when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Jake C

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 08:36:55 am »
When I started reloading, I bought some Alliant Black MZ. Mostly, I liked it, but I found all my rounds that I loaded with it were turning green (not sure if the powder was the cause or if I did something wrong but figured it'd be better to be safe than sorry), so I pulled the rounds and now only use the stuff (occasionally) in my C&B revolvers. It does what I need it to do. I prefer BP but the Alliant Black MZ is okay in my book.
Win with ability, not with numbers.- Alexander Suvorov, Russian Field Marshal, 1729-1800

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 10:17:15 am »
 
Jake,

Watcha using to wash/rinse your fired cases??  I've seen a ton of recommendations pertaining to what/when/where/how to rinse fired cases.  If you watch at a match, there are all kinds of folks dragging all manner of small jug of concoction around and dutifully dropping their fired cases in after each stage.  OK, I suppose.  If that is what one learned first, a long time ago, and believe in, go ahead.  Wasting yer time though.  Here be the secret sauce.

During a shooting session, or a match, even a multi-day match, I just throw my fire brass inna bag and save it for later.  Just take it home wid me.  When I get home, I dump said brass inna sink (DO NOT do this inna Kitchen Sink.  She will KILL you) with Hot water cut about 50/50 with white Vinegar.  Let it soak about half an hour and rinse.  Dump it onto a rimmed cookie sheet and stick it inna oven for an hour at 180 degrees to dry, run it through the tumbler.  Some time I still get a tiny amount of green stuff.  I don't care.  It doesn't matter.  Going to load them up again and shot them in a week or two anyhow.

Anyway, this was a long drawn out dissertation to suggest if your using plain dish/laundry soap and water ........ ah don't.  Just Plain water and Vinegar then tumble.  Oh, forgot, I only leave the cases inna tumbler for about an hour .... unless I forget to set a timer (Alexa).

Offline Jake C

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 10:28:48 am »

Jake,

Watcha using to wash/rinse your fired cases??  I've seen a ton of recommendations pertaining to what/when/where/how to rinse fired cases.  If you watch at a match, there are all kinds of folks dragging all manner of small jug of concoction around and dutifully dropping their fired cases in after each stage.  OK, I suppose.  If that is what one learned first, a long time ago, and believe in, go ahead.  Wasting yer time though.  Here be the secret sauce.

During a shooting session, or a match, even a multi-day match, I just throw my fire brass inna bag and save it for later.  Just take it home wid me.  When I get home, I dump said brass inna sink (DO NOT do this inna Kitchen Sink.  She will KILL you) with Hot water cut about 50/50 with white Vinegar.  Let it soak about half an hour and rinse.  Dump it onto a rimmed cookie sheet and stick it inna oven for an hour at 180 degrees to dry, run it through the tumbler.  Some time I still get a tiny amount of green stuff.  I don't care.  It doesn't matter.  Going to load them up again and shot them in a week or two anyhow.

Anyway, this was a long drawn out dissertation to suggest if your using plain dish/laundry soap and water ........ ah don't.  Just Plain water and Vinegar then tumble.  Oh, forgot, I only leave the cases inna tumbler for about an hour .... unless I forget to set a timer (Alexa).

Howdy Coffinmaker,

I'll absolutely give that a try. I can't recall what I was doing at the time. Now, I put the brass in a container with water and rinse it a few times before drying it and then putting it in the tumbler. But I'm always up for a a better way to do things.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 09:55:51 am by Jake C »
Win with ability, not with numbers.- Alexander Suvorov, Russian Field Marshal, 1729-1800

Offline hellgate

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 01:04:22 pm »
Sorta what Coffinmaker said: I toss them into a bag and after the match (1, 2, or 3 day shoot) when I get home I dump them in a coffee can,  add hot water  (no vinegar, my cases are nickeled), swish, dump water, swish again, dump water repeat 1 or 2 more times til the water comes out clean. Then strain out water, put in a foil baking tray in the toaster oven @200 degrees for 30 min. Remove dry cases and tumble. Inspect & load 'em up agin'.
"Frontiersman: the only category where you can shoot your wad and play with your balls while tweeking the nipples on a pair of 44s." Canada Bill

Since I have 14+ guns, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of Cap&Ball. Now, that's a COMPLIMENT!

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Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2019, 01:36:20 pm »
One important note about BlackMZ - it absorbs moisture like a sponge.  Close the bottle tight as soon as you fill your measure.  Dump and clean your measure as soon as you're done.  Don't count on it not clumping up if you leave it in measure for a few hours.  The nest day the tumbler will be frozen stuck.   

Offline smokin6

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 02:28:36 pm »
After using black mz ,  it's my go to powder. Great stuff.

Offline Dave T

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 09:57:34 am »
There was a rumor going around that this stuff was no longer in production and current stocks would be it. Anyone have any information on this rumor. Will it or won't it be around for future use?

Dave

Offline Coffinmaker

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 12:34:04 pm »

Damn.  I knew I forgot something.  I just ordered 2 cases of 3f APP.  While I had 'em onna phone I waz suppose ta ask just dat question.

OOPS

Offline Professor Marvel

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 02:48:34 pm »
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Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2019, 03:20:53 pm »
I just got a 12 bottle case from Sportsmans  Warehouse at a very attractive price and have already burned up about 1/4 of  a bottle.
Respectfully
Bunk

Offline Bibbyman

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2019, 08:23:48 pm »
Since it's now easy to post videos, here are three tests I conducted comparing BlackMZ with Grafs Reenactor,  Goex FFg and Goex Cannon powder.

https://youtu.be/O9KqK1laIpw

https://youtu.be/3N33aSNLnCk

https://youtu.be/XmEwj1Z0uik

Offline Bunk Stagnerg

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Re: Alliant Black MZ sub powder
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2019, 08:07:13 am »
Thanks Bibbyman
For the hard work doing those tests. I tried loading cannon powder in shotgun shells hoping to get fire and sparks but got almost squibs they did not KD a KD target. It was funny for every one but me.
Again thanks and interesting videos.
Bunk