Author Topic: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy  (Read 6958 times)

Offline w44wcf

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Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« on: November 30, 2011, 11:21:14 pm »
Back in 1875, Winchester considered their 1873 Winchester to be "accurate and effective to 500-600 yards." 

My testing of the vintage 44-40 bullet (427098) using Swiss FFG proved to be surprisingly accurate at extended ranges. Winchester obviously did some testing prior to making that statement. ;D

With Goex, however, the 427098 fouls out in a dozen rounds or so with accuracy degrading rapidly thereafter. :'(

I felt that if the 427098 design could be modified to carry a bit more lube that perhaps the down range accuracy of the 427098 could be duplicated using the less expensive and more easily obtainable Goex.  So I experimented with some 427098 bullets, modifying them with my lathe and testing to find the ideal lube (without being excessive) capacity to make the 24" trip many times with Goex without fouling out. Th Accurate Molds 43-215C is the result of those tests.

I had a chance recently to test the 43-215C bullet (Accurate Molds) in the 44-40 at 300 meters.  Lube was SPG.

In this test, the powder was Goex FFG in 37 grs. by weight doses ignited by Remington 2 1/2 primers.

300 meters (327 yards)
I fired several rounds to get the right elevation to be "on target".  

First 5 shots -
Initially windage was off to the left but I fired 5 rounds, 4 of which impacted the steel javelina on the left hand side with one round impacting about where the white dot is.

Finishing shots -
I moved the windage to the right and the second group was pretty well centered.
I placed my cell phone face down on the target to give a perspective of size.

I am happy to report that the 43-215C does well at extended distances....just like its brother the 427098. ;D

 


The 427098 in the pic is from the Accurate Mold 43-210B as inspired by "Fairshake"

w44wcf
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 08:02:08 am by w44wcf »
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Offline Mako

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 10:16:42 am »
Impressive groups John.

It looks like it has every bit the accuracy of the parent design.  Now tell us about the fouling and evidence of lube from the bullet.  Is there a lube star on the muzzle end?  Have you made any comparison whether objective or subjective ( a subjective observation from you is as good or better than a pile of test data from someone else in my book...) as to the softness of the fouling residue?

Do you have any observations comparing this design to the Mav Dutchman in the fouling department?  I know it will out shoot  the Mav Dutchman, but the Mav Dutchman was designed to keep you running, not shoot 2 to 3 MOA groups (that final group looks sub 2 MOA) at extended ranges.

When you get the chance you should punch some paper or measure those hits on steel and start figuring out what the potential accuracy is.  Have you determined what the 100 and 200 yard groups look like as well?

Regards (and thanks),
Mako
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 10:19:08 am by Mako »
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Offline w44wcf

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2011, 11:44:05 am »
Mako,

Thank you.

What has been the inspiration in this endeavor is Winchester's claim back in 1875 that the 44 W.C.F. (aka 44-40) was effective and accurate to 500-600 yards and Doc Pardee's impressive 30 shot target fired at 110 yards back then.  The 427098 works great at longer distances, but it takes SWISS (and possibly the new KIK) powder to make it run for many shots accurately.

So, perhaps a 427098 with a bit more lube capacity would run with Goex, Schuetzen and Diamondback.  
Enter the 43-215C.  So far......it appears to be working.....

There was a lube star on the muzzle.  In first testing this bullet, I loaded and fired 50 rounds loaded with Goex FFG with no loss of accuracy. Fouling was even for the length of the 24" barrel and the first patch pushed through easily with no resistance. ;D

So far, it seems to control fouling (with SPG) as well as the MAV bullet although the 43-215C carries a bit less lube (shallower lube groove).  Perhaps with another lube it may or may not(?).  

At both 100 and 200 yards, the majority of the shots will group into 2 to 2 1/2 MOA. and thankfully, it appears that level of accuracy extends to 327 yards as well. ;D

The cell phone measures 4" long. There is another bullet impact toward the top just left of the hanger notch. The pig silhouette is about 9" high (2.7MOA) at the thickest point, so if the aim is true, and discounting any negative weather effects, all 44-40 black powder launched 43-215C's will find steel at over 3 football fields distant.  ;D



Below is the 200 yard target I made with the 43-215C earlier this year. The majority of the shots are in or touching the 4" circle.
At the time I just referred to it as the 427098 modified....



Next spring, I plan on stretching the distance to the ram at 500 meters......
It will be fuunnn!

w44wcf
« Last Edit: December 02, 2011, 01:44:55 pm by w44wcf »
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Offline john boy

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2011, 11:31:28 pm »
John, you sure have stepped ahead of the current designed 44-40 bullets being sold.  That pig swing never had  a chance and it's one impressive group for a light bullet.
Quote
Next spring, I plan on stretching the distance to the ram at 500 meters.....
Believe I'll bring the '60 Henry and a box of the original design 454190's with the new KIK to Ridgway to see how well they do on the rams.
Regards
SHOTS Master John Boy

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Offline sail32

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 11:40:24 am »
Hi w44wcf.
What weight of lube do the 4 bullets you have shown hold ?
thanks sail32

Offline Bryan Austin

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2011, 05:31:06 pm »
That's great John, nice shoot'n! I did pick up the 43-215C and I just picked up a Lyman 427098 mold that the owner said dropped 428-429 lead. If the 098 shoots good, I'll keep my life simple and use the Lyman 454190 and the Lyman 427098 with Swiss. Trying to keep track of all this stuff gives me a headache. I don't shoot 100 rounds a day so I just need accuracy for a few rounds.

I sure have learned a lot from you and Fairshake.  ;D

Offline fourfingersofdeath

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2011, 02:36:39 am »
I had a friend after a 9mm mould the other day and I ratted throughmy moulds looking for one. While I was at it, I found a Lyman dual cavity 429215DW (lord knows what the DW stands for, I can't find any mention of it on the net. It has a new looking pair of Lyman handles as well. Got to thinking if I trimmed one cavity to be a plain base, this would go well in my 44/40s with a case full of black for hunting.
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Offline w44wcf

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Re: Accurate 43-215C & 44-40 = good long distance accuracy
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2011, 10:18:15 am »
John Boy,
Looking forward to May, 2012. ;D  We'll have lots of fun sending those bullets out at 500 meters.  ;D

sail32,
Black Dawge - .70 grs
43-210B - 1.00 grs  (Fairshake version of the 427098)
Big Lube - 1.60 grs
43-215C - 1.25 grs

Jack,
Thank you. Glad to hear that you picked up the 43-215C and a 427098.  I have 4 different molds for the 427098 and bullets from them range in diameter from .427 to .431 depending on the mold. Lube capacities range from .70 to 1.00 grs. Swiss even works well with the .70 gr lube capacity version.

fourfingersofdeath,
With its wide meplat the MAV D Big lube would be the better choice for hunting than the modified 429215. In addition, the lube capacity is much less so and unless you use SWISS powder, the 429215 mod. will likely foul out in short order.

w44wcf     

 
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka John Kort
aka w30wcf (smokeless)
NRA Life Member
.22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F., .45 Colt Cartridge Historian

 

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