Fall of shot

[Judge Lead]

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As a new comer to the world of Remmie '58s, I am wondering what the fall of shot would be when using approx 30grns of FFFG .

I have a Pietta (nickel)  and Uberti (stainless), both in .44,  that I hope will be working when I go to a 2 day event at the end of the month.

People are telling me they are sighted in for POA at 100yds when using 40 grns. How close would they be ?.

I will only be shooting at standard CAS ranges, so targets should be closer than the 100yd mark

The following weekend is another 2 dayer and I would like to use them again.

So far, there has only been 6 stages shot with them and as I would like to get a clean match some day, I am hoping to make it soon - preferably the next 2 would be nice 

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Regards

[hellgate]

Judge, I'm not sure who you have been talking to but the Remington's won't hold 40grs powder; maybe 35 at most + the ball. The repro remmies I have had either shot low or to POA when i first fired them. This necessitated the removal of some metal off the top of the front sights to prevent them from striking too low. I have had repro Colts that may have hit right on at 100 yards (like a foot high at 10 or 15 yards) requiring either a 6 o'clock hold or a higher front sight.

Keep a little bottle of water soluble oil handy so you can put a drop on the front of the cylinder where it meets the frame so you can soften up fouling that can gum up the cylinder pins (especially when shooting maximum loads). I have two Uberti Remmies that will gum up in about 10 shots without the drop of oil at every reload. I also use grease over the balls and a lube wad under the ball. I shoot either 20 grs FFFg (when I am serious about scoring well) or 30 grs under the ball or conical. If you don't have a water soluble oil like Ballistol or cutting oil, you could probably use olive oil or BP solvent. I put mine into a little plastic squeeze bottle in my shooting box. I use automotive grease on the cylinder pin, on the back of the cylinder AND on top of the balls. It works fine in the revolver (but not in a patched ball rifle).

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Judge Lead  (Is that LED or LEED?)
Hellgate has it down pat.  Try your pistols at 10 yards first, and then @ 20-25 yards.  I use a target with two bullseyes, right hand pistol on the right and left hand pistol on the left.  If the shots are low, CAREFULLY & SLOWLY file down the front sight.  I try to get the group "spot on" at 25 yards.  If they are high the long term answer is to get a higher front sight.  The immediate answer is to hold low.  Memorize the hold carefully, and for both pistols.

Learn what caps fit, without falling off or causing jams.  Rock the pistol to the right while cocking, and most fragments will drop out.  (It seems that these pistols were designed by a LEFTY!)

My most accurate pistols are my Cap'n Balls! 

[Judge Lead]

Thanks for the replies gents.

It may have been Walkers I was thinking of with the 100yds. They are one BIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGG pistol.

I don't want to file the sights if at all possible so it may very well be a case of remembering where it shoots and aiming accordingly.

Sir Charles, it is as in the material we use that travels at a rate of knots out the end of these tubes we hold in our hands.

I would agree that they are designed for leftys. The day I used them in a match, the last pistol on the last stage for the day, I had a cap fall off and land on my ring finger off the right hand. Stung like  blazes and caused a blister that took ages to settle. Everything flows with the left hand. Cylinder spins the right way, caps fall away from the hand etc etc. I am also right handed, so starting with my weaker side means that I finish stongly (supposedly  )

I always start with my left side pistol. That way I do not get muddled when there is a break in pistols. I have seen so many people pull a pistol that has been shot because they have forgotten.

Regards

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Lead;  (As in "LED")

You made a very good observation!  Practice "drills" and stick to them.  The relatively minor stress of a competition is enough to overload the mind.  We have to think of a lot;  1. SAFETY,  2.  Course of fire,  3.  Effective use of our firearms.  4.  Quick reaction to the unexpected.  I too use the left pistol first.

As a British Army Gunnery Insructor told us repeatedly, "IF THINGS GO RIGHT, IT IS A BONUS"

[Grapeshot]

You can also adjust your powder charge.  A lighter charge will cause the strike of the ball to hit high, whereas a hefty charge of BP with throw that same ball faster and cause it to strike lower on the target.

[hellgate]

I've never bothered to see how the POI changes with different powder charges but I do know that the projectile weight has a major impact on trajectory. A heavier bullet (200gr conical) will shoot higher than the round ball.The heavier slug goes slower (more barrel time) and has more inertia therefore the barrel rises farther before it exits the muzzle. The lighter bullet is out the barrel sooner before there is as much rise from recoil.

One time I tried to work up two loads that would have the same POI in my Blackhawk so I wouldn't have to change the sight adjustment. I wanted a 110gr "varmint" load and a 158gr bullet to have the same POI. Regardless of the powder type or charges used (both high & low power) I could not get the two bullets to strike at the same place. There may be less difference with black powder since there is so much weight to the powder & residue that gets blown out the barrel that a heavy & light bullet may hit a little closer but I could not do it with smokeless.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Hellgate;  I have made the same observation.  Heavy bullets from a pistol hit higher! ALWAYS!

The explanation I have read states the change due to the recoil of heavier charge weights is exactly offset by the shorter "barrel time".  Conversly, heavier bullets recoil more and have a longer barrel time.  The result is a higher POI.

[hellgate]

Of the seven Remmies I have owned (kept 4), only two did not need filing to lower the front sight. The rest all shot low out of the box (2 new SS Piettas & 2 Uberti Milleniums). It was the two Euroarms guns that had no modification to the front sight that I could tell and shot POA. They were both bought used. From my experience, I'd say your guns will likely print low and "need a little off the top".

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I own 4 Euroarms/Armi San Paolo '58 Rem NMA's(actually OMA's) and the two that were built in 1977 have low front sights and shoot bull high at CAS pistol range. I will add new taller sights to them but change nothing else cause the windage is pretty good as is. My two newer ASP/EA Gunslingers have taller front sights and shoot POA at Cas Distances. One is the taller sight that came on the gun, the other is one I made and guessed at the height. GOOD GUESS!  Windage is good on them too.
I shoot 30 Grn BP with Old West Mould 248 Frn 44 Rem. C.F. bullets
When I shoot smokeless it's 4.75 Grn. Trail Boss with the same bullets.  Both loads seem to shoot the same POA