Author Topic: I have a question for ust guys  (Read 5033 times)

Offline Major 2

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I have a question for ust guys
« on: March 20, 2006, 11:24:48 AM »
I just traded for a Colt Richard conversion, I was told it was a Cimarron Show display model.
However it has USPFA Hartford,CT. and 38 Cal. on the barrel , no proof marks, a low 3 # Serial.
Very, very nice fit and finish with Silver backstrap and front sight, nicely figured walnut one piece grips oil finished ( no red satin )
The action is as slick as about any Smith worked SSA I handled. It appears unfired with faint cyl. ring or marks.

Is it an early USFA gun or a special made piece by USFA ?

I have to wait three days (weekends don't count ) (darn cool off law) to pick it up , I'll post a photo when it home.

If it is a USFA do I get to join , or is USPFA another camp ?  :-\
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline RRio

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2006, 12:03:28 PM »
Sounds like an early USFA to me. The USPFA stood for United States Patent Fire Arms and because of some legal hoo-dookey with Colt. a judge made them remove the "Patent" from their name.

And yes you can join. As a matter of facr, consider it done!      "#121  Major231"

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Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2006, 01:12:49 PM »
Major,
Yes, it is a USFA gun.  Early on, USFA (then USPFA) had plans to market a line of percussion reproductions.  They abandoned this plan and decided to concentrate on the SAA.  Probably a wise move.
I have one of the Richards Mason conversions, though mine is marked "USFA."  It is my understanding that only 50 or so of these guns were ever made.  Mine is pictured on the USFA web site in the "customer's guns" section.
CJF
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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #3 on: Today at 03:54:41 AM »

Offline Major 2

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2006, 01:54:50 PM »
Capt. your on the Navy 51 Frame w/ silver back strap (and a silver front sight ??)

mine is an 1860 8" barrel w/ silver mountings

USPFA  Hartford CT. on top where Address Sam.L Colt  would be.


Thanks for the welcome , I fully intend to shoot this gun...  :-[
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2006, 05:24:10 PM »
Major,
Thanks for the reply.  I had no idea that USPFA/USFA had made an 1860 conversion as well.
After initially replying to you post, I sent an e-mail off to USFA to see if they can verify the number of conversions that were made.
Here is another question for you:  Mine is a Richards Mason conversion on the 1851 Navy frame, the rear sight being the standard hammer notch.  Is yours a Richards conversion with the fixed rear sight?  I seem to recall seeing a Richards type conversion in one of USFA's very early catalogs.  I always assumed that it was a prototype that never made it into production.
CJF
You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline Major 2

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2006, 06:04:39 PM »
I'm think'n'' ahh,  I'm not sure , you see it still in the FFL's safe (dam 3 day cool off period weekends don't count !)
I paid close attention to detail but forgot about how the sight is ... old timer disease  ::)

a prototype maybe ? ,  I was told , "a Shot Show display gun"
any idea when USPFA became USFA or when your gun was pup ?
Might give me an aprox. time of manufacture on mine ...
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2006, 06:58:42 PM »
As I recall, it was round about 1994 that USPFA became USFA - I may be wrong.  It all came about as a result of a law suit filed by Colt, Colt's contention being that USPFA Co. never held any patents on the SAA.  That is why "Patent" was dropped from the name.
I have little doubt that, like the early "Patent" guns, my conversion is made up primarily of imported Italian parts that were finished and assembled here.  There are no proof marks to be found but that means little.  There were not proof marks on any of the Colt Black Powder series guns either and they were made from Italian parts as well.
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Offline Major 2

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2006, 07:09:45 PM »
"...I have little doubt that, like the early "Patent" guns, my conversion is made up primarily of imported Italian parts that were finished and assembled here.  There are no proof marks to be found but that means little.  There were not proof marks on any of the Colt Black Powder series guns either and they were made from Italian parts as well.

Agreed, the 2 Gen Colt were Uberti forgings  , finished by Colt here in the US , I have several .

The third gens. were also Uberti forgings, but various vendors finished the guns both here in the US and in Europe ( one in Germany )
they did not have proof marks either.
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2006, 07:22:12 PM »
Back when "Colt" still had a web site for the Signature Series black powder guns, I couldn't help but notice that the business address and phone number given was the same Brooklyn address of the Henry Repeating Arms Co.
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Offline Major 2

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2006, 08:55:13 PM »
ummmm Dat Right ! King-O-Sabi   :) ...they were one of them , also Sauer in W. Germany.
when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2006, 10:16:25 PM »
Major,
Just checked that old USFA catalog.  Don't know the year for sure but it is their "5th Anniversary" edition catalog.  I think it was around 1998 or so when the catalog was put out.
In it they picture a .38 cal., 1851 Navy with a Richards conversion.  As I stated, mine is a Richards Mason conversion.

Additional:  Since posting, I have tried to do a bit of research.  As far as I can tell, USPFA first started in 1993.  I think it was '94 when the name was changed to USFA.

I have found numerous mentions of the 1851 Navy conversion and absolutely no mention of an 1860 Army conversion.
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Offline Major 2

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2006, 05:52:23 PM »
So your thinking I have a rare bird ? or a one off ?

when planets align...do the deal !

Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2006, 06:30:38 PM »
Sure sounds that way.  It would be well worth contacting USFA about.
Odd that they would make an 1860 Army in .38 cal. when the 1861 Navy model would be more historically accurate.
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Offline Capt. John Fitzgerald

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2006, 11:04:35 AM »
Just got the following reply from USFA;

"We made less than 50 of the Mason conversions, probably closer to 35, although it would be difficult to give you an exact number without quite a bit of research."

You can't change the wind, but you can always change your sails.

Offline Major 2

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Re: I have a question for ust guys
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2006, 06:35:24 PM »
I might have to rethink shooting this one  :-\

But I planned to...
when planets align...do the deal !

 

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